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Home Binding #2742526
06/06/18 12:39 PM
06/06/18 12:39 PM
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Has anyone done this with their sheet music? I have been placing my sheets inside sheet protectors in a 3 ring binder, but it's getting a little too thick and unwieldy. I'm considering ditching the sheet protectors and just punching holes, but the 3 ring hole punchers seem more intrusive into the paper. That let me to explore home binding. While this seems like a good option, I'm hesitant bc I'm always adding, removing and updating, and this solution doesn't make that easy. Thoughts?

As an aside, I'm definitely a paper guy; use computers and monitors and iphone for lots of things, but I just like the paper in front of me at the piano. Seems easier on the eyes. I look at enough screens all day.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
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Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742537
06/06/18 01:06 PM
06/06/18 01:06 PM
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Yes I much prefer paper, especially printed at larger sizes. I find it simpler to have my sheet music bound at a local copy/print shop. They have several binding and cover options all for a modest fee. And I don’t have to buy the equipment.

Plus, it is enjoyable to create custom playbooks from PDFs. I can make sure the music lays properly - two pages at a time and I can also add basic title pages and a table of contents. Very satisfying.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742540
06/06/18 01:16 PM
06/06/18 01:16 PM
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I think comb binding may be your best answer.

Comb bindings are easy to open and close to change pages or re-use. The combs are not very expensive, and the holes don't rip out as easily as three-ring bindings.

However, you need a good machine and you need to practice with it before using it to bind anything important.

The cheap light-weight machines do work (more-or-less) but it's a lot easier to get straight and even holes on the sheets with a larger, heavier machine where you don't have to struggle to get the punch through the paper and where the machine isn't trying to run away. A heavier machine with a long handle is the answer -- leverage is your friend here.

If you're using covers you might want to punch the holes such that the the pages and the cover both align across the bottom edge. If you center the pages within the cover so there's a gap at the bottom the pages will sag when the book is standing up.

Last edited by FrankCox; 06/06/18 01:23 PM.

If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742543
06/06/18 01:25 PM
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That may be just what I'm looking for. Especially if I can add / remove sheets easily. Thanks!


Boston 118 PE

Working On
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Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
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Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742566
06/06/18 02:36 PM
06/06/18 02:36 PM
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Rocky Mountains, USA
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I have a coil binder - it's a paper punch with tiny holes, then you just thread the coil. It's simple, and you can remove the coil if you want to add pages. I prefer it to comb binding because you can completely fold the book around, which you can't do with comb binding.

Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742571
06/06/18 02:47 PM
06/06/18 02:47 PM
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I know you asked about binding, but the music folder linked below remains flat on the stand, never feels unwieldy. You can buy extra of the three ring inserts so you could keep separate materials based on genre or purpose and just switch out. Pricey but well made

https://www.musicfolder.com/music-folders/the-black-folder


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742582
06/06/18 03:08 PM
06/06/18 03:08 PM
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Interesting options.

Regarding the coil binder, that seems interesting b/c easy to change pages. Not that you'd want to do it every day but seems easy enough. Question - is the inside margin less than would be required of a three ring binder? Seems so.

Thanks. Some nice options.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742587
06/06/18 03:15 PM
06/06/18 03:15 PM
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Melville Saskatchewan
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The inside margin of the hole is indeed much closer to the edge of the paper.

I'm not sure if all machines punch exactly the same way (though the combs are standard so I suppose they should be) but the last machine I used to punch for comb binding has the inside edge of the hole at 3/8" from the outside edge of the paper. I just measured it.

So your printed area could theoretically cover the entire page up to 3/8" from the edge of the paper without getting punched out.


If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742606
06/06/18 04:47 PM
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Rocky Mountains, USA
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My coil binder is adjustable - you can punch as close to the edge as you wish. It sort of depends on the number of pages and rhe size of the coil.

Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742656
06/06/18 07:22 PM
06/06/18 07:22 PM
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Kitsap County, WA
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Business liquidations and government auctions are great way to get good quality comb binding machines cheap. I haunt these a bit and almost always seem them in lots, pretty much every office seems to have one.



Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 1, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742675
06/06/18 08:40 PM
06/06/18 08:40 PM
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I got my heavy duty Ibico comb binding machine for $10 from a local Craigslist seller. The thing is a tank, it must weigh 20 pounds.

It punches the holes very close to the edge of the paper. From memory, I'd say it punches closer to the edge than does spiral binding.

As for adding or subtracting pages, the comb binding machine is very quick at those tasks. The same device that opens the comb to insert the original pages just as quickly opens the comb for you to insert new pages at a later time. I think I could punch some new pages, open the comb bound project, insert the new pages, and close the project up in less than two minutes.


Ralph

Casio Privia PX-760
Pianoteq Stage
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742694
06/06/18 10:01 PM
06/06/18 10:01 PM
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Florida
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Wow that's good to know. I'm going to scour the ads.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742759
06/07/18 08:09 AM
06/07/18 08:09 AM
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Found one (Ibico) on Craigslist locally. It seems pretty old though - the brand hasn't been in business in over 20 years!

F/U question - in what order do you arrange your music? I have jazz pop first, then classical. Then I have been using the order learned but if binding wonder if I should go in alphabetical order by composer, or by time period?

Last edited by cmb13; 06/07/18 08:10 AM.

Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742768
06/07/18 09:01 AM
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If binding, I would have separate sections for jazz and classical
Within each section, I would order by composer

Last edited by dogperson; 06/07/18 09:01 AM.
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742782
06/07/18 10:22 AM
06/07/18 10:22 AM
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Don't worry about the Ibico's age. It has a good 3-4 thousand years left.

I can't advise on organizing. I have only used mine to make working copies of out of print books that are about to turn to dust.


Ralph

Casio Privia PX-760
Pianoteq Stage
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742783
06/07/18 10:25 AM
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Don't worry about the Ibico's age. It has a good 3-4 thousand years left.

I can't advise on organizing. I have only used mine to make working copies of out of print books that are about to turn to dust.

I use the opportunity to arrange all 2 page pieces so that the two pages face each other so I don't have to turn pages.


Ralph

Casio Privia PX-760
Pianoteq Stage
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742811
06/07/18 12:25 PM
06/07/18 12:25 PM
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I think Dogperson is right about the way to organize.

Ralphiano, do you print front and back? For instance, if you have a 2 page piece facing each other, and another one after it, will you print page 1 of the next piece on the back of page 2 of the prior piece? This would save paper, and thickness of the binder, but would make it harder to reorganize.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742818
06/07/18 12:37 PM
06/07/18 12:37 PM
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中国
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I have had the good fortune of binding millions of pages for presentations. Some general thoughts:

- The plastic "comb bindings" are rather easy to make and to change pages. The pages are more difficult to turn and they have a finite number of page turns (because they destroy paper). I think they carrry more paper "dust" from the punches. The combs are generally good quality but, even with top-tier equipment your books will feel "cheap"

- The metal "spiral bindings" are more precise, better looking and easier to change pages. Binding and unbinding takes more time and effort. Metal coils can get bent easily in transport making the pages a bit more difficult to turn (even after you try to unbend the coils). The spiral bindings seem more professional to me.

Local copy shops usually offer some relatively inexpensive binding services. Why don't you have a look and test out the different options before committing to a system?

BETTER ALTERNATIVE - JAPAN

The Japanese have a staggering selection of high-quality binders but they can be a bit expensive for the US markets. Also note the Japanese typically use metric sizes. For example, these A4-sized 30-ring binders might work fine; the binders are durable, pages are easy to swap, pages are easy to turn, pages last a long time due to number of holes and precision of the rings. Kokuyo is a popular mid-range brand but there are a lot of other brands available like Maruman. Metal rings may be more precise.

https://www.jetpens.com/Kokuyo-Binders-Accessories/ct/2970?&f=cad0c3a58a710312

https://global.rakuten.com/en/search/?tl=301760&k=a4%20binder&l-id=search_regular

This Japanese store sells lots of Japanese binders in NYC (they have about a dozen stores in the US but I have only visited the NYC store). Visit a Japanese paper goods store if you have the chance; they are a lot of fun

https://usa.kinokuniya.com/stores-kinokuniya

These are small sample of what is available in Japan:

https://hands.net/search/?category=&q=%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%BC+a4&x=0&y=0

http://www.e-maruman.co.jp/products...;disp_number=15&pageno=1&rnd=phi

Last edited by newer player; 06/07/18 12:37 PM.
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742823
06/07/18 12:56 PM
06/07/18 12:56 PM
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Thanks for the ins and outs!


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742865
06/07/18 04:24 PM
06/07/18 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
I think Dogperson is right about the way to organize.

Ralphiano, do you print front and back? For instance, if you have a 2 page piece facing each other, and another one after it, will you print page 1 of the next piece on the back of page 2 of the prior piece? This would save paper, and thickness of the binder, but would make it harder to reorganize.


I do not print front and back, despite the possible paper savings. I only use my printer/scanner occasionally, and so, do not get all of its functions committed to memory. Managing front and back printing so there is no wasted paper is just more intellectual effort than I want to put in (or, am able crazy). So, in a book with a lot of 2 page pieces, I tend to have two pages facing each other, then next comes two blank backsides, then another 2 page piece with pages facing each other, then another pair of blanks, and so forth.

I haven't had to worry about the bulk since the books I have done have all been books of 12 or less pieces, with a maximum of 2 pages per piece. I may have to become more efficient with my printer/scanner as I get better at piano and take on more lengthy compositions.


Ralph

Casio Privia PX-760
Pianoteq Stage
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742875
06/07/18 05:43 PM
06/07/18 05:43 PM
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Wisconsin, USA
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Sorry but for me I would never punch holes in my music and re-binding. When I started piano at the age of six I will never forget my wonderful instructor spending time teaching me how to break in the binding on a new piece of music or music book. I've never had a problem with pages moving themselves in a new book. For a new book of say 30 pages it takes me about five minutes to break it in before attempting to play anything from it. My instructor taught me a important lesson I think of and thank her for every time I get a new piece of music.

What is your reasoning for "Home Binding?"

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/07/18 05:45 PM.

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Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742877
06/07/18 06:09 PM
06/07/18 06:09 PM
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The reason for me is so that I can have the music that I am working on in one location, one binder, to flip through, carry with me up to a lesson, and play on my daily routine. It's consolidation. I am not taking apart books that currently exist but rather scanning from them or printing music from PDF, keeping the original copy, and marking up my copy without affecting the original.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2742880
06/07/18 06:20 PM
06/07/18 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve


What is your reasoning for "Home Binding?"


For me, it is a way to preserve the originals of hard-to-find or out-of-print music books. Once I scan and bind the scans, I can safely put away the originals so I don't wear them out.

It would be interesting to hear your teacher 's method of "...break in the binding...".


Ralph

Casio Privia PX-760
Pianoteq Stage
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2742882
06/07/18 06:24 PM
06/07/18 06:24 PM
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Here is another way:

I got the Onsong app for my tablet, put all my music (and more, music I am learning) is on it, all sorted by sets, sorted by genres, with the ability to have the same piece in any number of sets.

The paper copies / books are at home. Music can be added or deleted in a few seconds, stickies with notes electronically added etc. Page turning is via a "Page Flip" Bluetooth unit, no wires (unless you want them). It is about the size of a paperback book.

Wish I had done this a long time ago, but the technology was not there. Not only is it neater, i.e. no pages torn, it is much smaller to carry, and easily modified and sorted. And the tablet is self-illuminating, no need for additional lighting. (The pagefiip pedal is also illuminated)

Onsong: https://onsongapp.com

Pageflip: https://pageflip.com


Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2750953
07/12/18 12:08 PM
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Update - I searched for a comb and a coil binding machine; I found the coil binding machines more expensive but I like the coils better. You can't get one under $100. I then went to Office Depot; they will punch holes for about 4 dollars, for 250 sheets.

I arranged and printed about 80 pages of music, spent a lot of time selecting it, included all the repertoire I am practicing and several future pieces; enough to last another year of learning. I printed it and had them bind it, with a break in the middle (clear plastic page) to divide the classical repertoire from jazz/rock. I also made a brief talbe of contents, and arranged the classical music in alphabetical order by composer.

Office Depot then punched and placed in the spiral binder in 5 min flat, for about $10 when including the binder, the cover and divider pages, and I had them punch another 200 pages for future use. I used Ivory Linen paper, heavy weight. Overall, I'm very happy with the outcome, wish I had done it sooner, and will not bother buying a machine as I feel this option was just easier.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2751041
07/12/18 04:46 PM
07/12/18 04:46 PM
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Phoenix, AZ
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cmb,
Office Depot has a coil binder for 80 dollars: Item 733211 https://www.officedepot.com/catalog/search.do?Ntt=proclick&searchSuggestion=true

Amazon has them for 70 dollars. It's called a Proclick and will punch coil-sized holes in letter and legal sized papers. The proclick uses plastic coils that open up flat, allowing you to organize your sheets and then either press the coil shut by hand, or use the "zipper tool" they preview. You can use metal coils, but you would have to thread the coil through your pile of sheets. The proclick is similar to opening a binder and replacing individual sheets, except the rings aren't hard steel and won't pinch your fingers when closing them. If you watch a proclick video, it will show you how easy it is to use, to replace and remove pages at will, etc., much better than I can explain.

I have used it for years now and am very satisfied. I have laminated the covers for my "books" (using a home laminator for under 20 dollars) and the proclick will go through the laminated fronts and backs of the collections I have created.

Comb bound or coil bound--it's a matter of preference. Just thought I'd throw out another cheap coil alternative.

Happy collecting!

Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2751057
07/12/18 05:43 PM
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Thanks, that's good to know. For some reason I looked through the proclick options but didn't see that item (733211) on the shelf or online, but when I typed the number that you provided in, it is there. Regardless, I'm set for now and as mentioned, pre-punched a lot of pages.

I wonder, has anyone taken apart there older music books and changed from glue-bound (whatever it's called) to coil?


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Consolidating My Repertoire
Mozart K545
Chopin Sonata 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2751066
07/12/18 06:26 PM
07/12/18 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Thanks, that's good to know. For some reason I looked through the proclick options but didn't see that item (733211) on the shelf or online, but when I typed the number that you provided in, it is there. Regardless, I'm set for now and as mentioned, pre-punched a lot of pages.

I wonder, has anyone taken apart there older music books and changed from glue-bound (whatever it's called) to coil?


I did about four years ago. I didn't do it myself. I can't remember if I used Staples or Office Depot. It was really inexpensive and I am glad I did it.

Re: Home Binding [Re: cmb13] #2751082
07/12/18 07:20 PM
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I do it all the time - with a stack paper cutter and coil binder. I scan them before I punch them because the coil-binding holes make the paper feed through the document feeder a little less reliably.


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by Pianolance. 09/18/18 01:02 AM
Kawai CA78: touchscreen and other noises
by oscar9192. 09/17/18 07:58 PM
How do you mark your sheet music?
by schinl. 09/17/18 07:32 PM
Publishers of Alkan
by RmntcPianoLvr. 09/17/18 07:07 PM
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