Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
106 registered members (Balezin Dmitry, aeroseb, accordeur, Bill McKaig,RPT, ahinton, cardguy2.0, anotherscott, 22 invisible), 1,789 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Pin block and stretcher construction #2750610
07/10/18 01:31 PM
07/10/18 01:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
S
sopranojam85 Offline OP
Full Member
sopranojam85  Offline OP
Full Member
S

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
Hello everyone,

I've been starring at my pin block and stretcher area for a while, and am a little confused as to how it's put together. If I did not know any better, I would say that the stretcher is part of the pin block, because it appears to be made of the same material (laminated Maple) and seems to be one piece of wood with the rest of the block.

For a couple photos, see this gallery: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/2750608/1921-53-hardman-peck.html#Post2750608

Measuring the top of the stretcher, is about 2".

Measuring the bottom of the stretcher, it is flat for the first inch, but any deeper and it starts to curve downward, being a part of the pin block.

I am thinking that one of the two is true. Either:
1. The pin block and stretcher are one, and the builders of the piano just put wood laminate finish over the front and top.
2. The lower half of the stretcher is a part of the pin block, but maybe the upper half of the stretcher (concealed now) is part of the piano casing. All are covered in laminate so I can't see any layers for now.

This is a 1921 Hardman & Peck 5'3" grand. (Yes, I've posted about this piano a number of times before, and no I don't need anyone to convince me that restoration of this piano is folly. I am just genuinely curious from a scientific / engineering perspective and how this was constructed.)

Thank you all!

(ad 800)
PTG Convention
PTG Journal
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2750615
07/10/18 02:15 PM
07/10/18 02:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,703
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,703
Oakland
The stretcher and pin block are integrated. Are you thinking of replacing the pin block?


Semipro Tech
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2750638
07/10/18 04:34 PM
07/10/18 04:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,616
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,616
New Hampshire
If the idea of replacing the block is too formidable for you, you could:

1) Plug, re-drill and restring

2) Rout out the tuning pin fields and epoxy in replacement blocks to fit, re-drill and re-string

3) Fill the holes with epoxy, re-drill and restring

4) Swab the holes with epoxy and restring

5) Just use CA to tighten everything up.

Just a few options to think about. I have no idea what your experience level is with pianos, or what you intend to get out of it.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2750671
07/10/18 06:58 PM
07/10/18 06:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
S
sopranojam85 Offline OP
Full Member
sopranojam85  Offline OP
Full Member
S

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
Thanks. Yes, I am aware of the options available concerning CA glue, epoxy, etc. This is something that I've been pondering for a few years now, and the budget for a pro to do the job has not panned out, and I'm trying to decide if I even wish to try undertaking this myself or not. The piano has a cracked pin block. I've already tried CA glue treatment and it was not effective in the least.

I was mostly curious how the stretcher / pin block were shaped and mated together. I suppose I won't really know for-sure unless I take the veneer off of the stretcher to see what's behind it.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2750736
07/11/18 07:09 AM
07/11/18 07:09 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Tampa, FL
B
Bill McKaig,RPT Online content
Full Member
Bill McKaig,RPT  Online Content
Full Member
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Tampa, FL
All the layers you see are the stretcher. The pin block layers run horizontal and are farther back. The curve on the bottom for the stretcher is to make room for the fall board to open and close.
Replacing a pin block is not a do it yourself project.


Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2750738
07/11/18 07:54 AM
07/11/18 07:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,598
Strong, Maine
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,598
Strong, Maine
Pinblock-strecher fitting has been done so many ways by various manufacturers that it's pretty hard to give any definitive advise. Hoist the plate out and look at it. That'll give you a better "scientific / engineering" idea of what's going on.

People have warned you. This isn't a job for DIYers.


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2750743
07/11/18 08:37 AM
07/11/18 08:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
S
sopranojam85 Offline OP
Full Member
sopranojam85  Offline OP
Full Member
S

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
Neat. If I angle the camera a bit lower, you cannot see any separation or seam/joint between the "stretcher" and pin block. It appear that at least for the lower / visible portion of the stretcher, this is part of the pin block. I could be wrong, but that is what I see so far.

I am aware that this is not a DIY job. Thank you for sharing your observations. It's clear that no 2 are alike, and only removal of plate can reveal the truth.

Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2750832
07/11/18 04:20 PM
07/11/18 04:20 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Tampa, FL
B
Bill McKaig,RPT Online content
Full Member
Bill McKaig,RPT  Online Content
Full Member
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Tampa, FL
Ok, after looking at the picture again the layers do appear to run horizontally so that means the stretcher is attached on top of the pin block. The best procedure for that would be to cut the pin block off behind the stretcher. Of course this would be done after the piano has been disassembled.


Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2750833
07/11/18 04:21 PM
07/11/18 04:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,616
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,616
New Hampshire
Does this piano have tuning pin bushings?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: P W Grey] #2750837
07/11/18 04:48 PM
07/11/18 04:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
S
sopranojam85 Offline OP
Full Member
sopranojam85  Offline OP
Full Member
S

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
Originally Posted by P W Grey
Does this piano have tuning pin bushings?

Pwg


There are visible plate bushings, but I don't know whether any of the pins have tuning pin bushings. I suppose I will find out once the strings are removed and tuning pins start coming out.

I've mentioned this years ago, and I'm coming back around to this thought -- removing all pins, filling with epoxy resin, and re-drilling the pin block in place, is sounding rather tempting on this piano. I know it is easier said than done, and my "to-do" list to do this right is already about 60 steps long and growing. I will need to experiment before doing this en-masse. Also, I would probably want to farm out the bridge re-cap or duplication to someone who knows how to do that properly.

The 2 biggest show stoppers for me are plate removal (lack of a hoist, or several strong young and careful bodies), and ultra-fine woodworking skills (as bridge or pin block duplication work calls for). Everything else, I feel capable of learning myself. In the case of strings, if one makes a mistake on a wire, one can re-do that wire, whereas if one screws up bridges or the pin block, it's a different story. So I've spilled my gray matter, and there you go! smile

Last edited by sopranojam85; 07/11/18 04:50 PM.
Re: Pin block and stretcher construction [Re: sopranojam85] #2751868
07/16/18 10:15 AM
07/16/18 10:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
S
sopranojam85 Offline OP
Full Member
sopranojam85  Offline OP
Full Member
S

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 58
Austin, TX
I posted a third photo in the gallery of this pin block:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/2750608/1921-53-hardman-peck.html#Post2750608

I could be wrong here, but are those shims that are inserted between the block and the plate flange? If so, what are the implications?

I have read that a poor fit between block and plate can cause a 'rocking' pin block where tuning stability is affected. I don't have this problem though, rather individual pins lose their tuning stability, particularly towards the keyboard, where there are more cracks in the block.

Is it feasible that the pin block's joining with the stretcher and case sides adds stability, and that perhaps the pin block flange was not carefully shaped in the factory, and shimmed?

Last edited by sopranojam85; 07/16/18 10:19 AM.

Moderated by  Piano World 

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Hello from Liverpool UK
by David Taylor. 11/17/18 11:45 AM
Sticking sustain on Yamaha and UK 5 year warranty
by pianist007. 11/17/18 04:12 AM
Chopin's 4th Scherzo
by SiFi. 11/17/18 03:18 AM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics188,377
Posts2,761,938
Members91,504
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2