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Brand new piano player! #2750507
07/10/18 01:14 AM
07/10/18 01:14 AM
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Posts: 18
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Yamaha1634 Offline OP
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Hi guys and girls!

I'm sure this sort of thing is posted on here all the time so I apologise for being repetitive!!

My wife took up learning the piano around 9 months ago. I bought her a cheap used Casio keyboard off eBay to get her started but now she's to a point where she's looking the the more realistic feel of a piano as well as the extra keys and pedals that a piano offers.

We've been in to a music shop locally and tried a few of their digital pianos today. We tried many many pianos but the only two in our price range are the entry level models, those being the Yamaha YDP143 and the Casio AP270. My wife preferred the sound of the Yamaha through the speakers but the Casio through the headphones. She also preferred the weight of the Yamaha keys but the texture of the Casio keys. So we're now stuck for choice!!

We've checked best prices and found the Casio to be around £70 cheaper than the Yamaha. However we've seen on eBay a few older models, for example a Yamaha YDP141 or Casio AP620 for substantially cheaper in our local area! And also two brands who seem to sell budget pianos, one being Gear4Music and another being Chase. Chase more importantly have a shop in Manchester around 90 minutes away from us where my wife could see and try the piano in person before she decided. This is the one we've been considering, on paper it seems to stack up, any advice on this brand?

https://www.chasedirect.co.uk/chase...p;zenid=a7e858c4405f5ebcd1768659fc72f4f1

I'm really just looking for advice and people's opinions on these entry level pianos. I know the choice is purely subjective but if anyone can think of anything we may have missed, that might help us make a decision!!

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by Yamaha1634; 07/10/18 01:17 AM.
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Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750510
07/10/18 02:03 AM
07/10/18 02:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,933
Germany
JoBert Offline
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Just one bit of advice: For an authentic feel, the key texture is by far the least important. The overall feeling when playing (for example the „weight“ that you describe) is much more important. I would not make a decision based on the key texture, unless all other factors are equal.

Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750511
07/10/18 02:14 AM
07/10/18 02:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 114
Denver, USA
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WarrenY Offline
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Denver, USA
Steer clear of those "Chase" house brand models. They are simply re-brand of low grade items.

Between the Yamaha YDP143 and the Casio AP270, take the AP270 for both better sound and better key action.

Also consider Roland FP30 or Kawai ES110 with stand and pedal board or Roland RP102, F140R, Kawai KDP110. The key actions of these are one step up / best among entry level.


Yamaha U1 | Roland FP90+JBL LSR305
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750512
07/10/18 02:17 AM
07/10/18 02:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,136
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Online content
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Yamaha1634
Hi guys and girls!

I'm sure this sort of thing is posted on here all the time so I apologise for being repetitive!!

My wife took up learning the piano around 9 months ago. I bought her a cheap used Casio keyboard off eBay to get her started but now she's to a point where she's looking the the more realistic feel of a piano as well as the extra keys and pedals that a piano offers.

We've been in to a music shop locally and tried a few of their digital pianos today. We tried many many pianos but the only two in our price range are the entry level models, those being the Yamaha YDP143 and the Casio AP270. My wife preferred the sound of the Yamaha through the speakers but the Casio through the headphones. She also preferred the weight of the Yamaha keys but the texture of the Casio keys. So we're now stuck for choice!!

We've checked best prices and found the Casio to be around £70 cheaper than the Yamaha. However we've seen on eBay a few older models, for example a Yamaha YDP141 or Casio AP620 for substantially cheaper in our local area! And also two brands who seem to sell budget pianos, one being Gear4Music and another being Chase. Chase more importantly have a shop in Manchester around 90 minutes away from us where my wife could see and try the piano in person before she decided. This is the one we've been considering, on paper it seems to stack up, any advice on this brand?

https://www.chasedirect.co.uk/chase...p;zenid=a7e858c4405f5ebcd1768659fc72f4f1

I'm really just looking for advice and people's opinions on these entry level pianos. I know the choice is purely subjective but if anyone can think of anything we may have missed, that might help us make a decision!!

Thanks in advance!


You might also consider the Kawai KDP90 which has lots of fans among beginners.
Both these pianos have what you need. The fact that things sound different using headphones could well be due to the difference in quality between the Casio and Yamaha headphone amp; contrarily, Yamaha probably have higher rated external amplification. You'll need to decide what is most important to you given your intended usage.

Entry level pianos are not so great and don't last a determined beginner more than to grade 4-6 level.
Another approach is to buy second hand and make that 600-800 budget stretch to something much nicer. Not everybody is comfortable with that though.
ebay second hand

Last edited by Doug M.; 07/10/18 02:19 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
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Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750514
07/10/18 02:34 AM
07/10/18 02:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
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Yamaha1634 Offline OP
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Any advice on the Casio AP620? There's one in my area selling for £350... It appears to be a much more advanced instrument albeit from 7 or 8 years ago.

Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750516
07/10/18 03:15 AM
07/10/18 03:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
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Yamaha1634 Offline OP
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The only issue I foresee with buying used is that we wouldn't necessarily get a chance to feel or play the piano before we committed to buy it. We would be buying entirely on specs and other people's reviews or opinions.

Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750518
07/10/18 03:26 AM
07/10/18 03:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,697
Suffolk, United Kingdom
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Suffolk, United Kingdom
It's probably an unfair comment but I would avoid older Casios. Many people report noisy keys once they get a bit of mileage on them. Yamaha, Roland or Kawai seem like much more bankable products to me. If chosen carefully an older Technics could also be good; they were very well made pianos in their day and they should all be dirt cheap now.

If you go Yamaha you really want to get one with GH or GH3 keys. Low level Yammies have GHS (which I don't mind personally but there's no doubt they are not quite so acoustic-like). Likewise wth Roland PHA-III or PHA-IV key actions are very good. Some of their slightly older lower level actions are a bit treacly and slow in my opinion.

As others have said, avoid Chase and all those silly makes with stencil brand names on cheapo Chinese made generic products - Classenti, Diginova, Broadway, Chase. There's loads of them and they're all rubbish compared to those from the known makers.

Good luck!


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Yamaha CLP 645
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: WarrenY] #2750520
07/10/18 03:30 AM
07/10/18 03:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 213
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Jasper E. Offline
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+1

I would mention YDP-163 (and if you can still find one, CLP-525) from Yamaha as well.

The prices vary among markets, however as far as I see the prices of YDP-143 went down significantly in the past months. After this price change, YDP-143 became far more attractive as before, as long as the budget is tight and the keyboard action is satisfactory.

I strongly recommend to try out in person several models from various vendors (among the mentioned ones from Kawai, Roland, Yamaha, Casio) before purchase.


Kawai KDP-90
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: EssBrace] #2750522
07/10/18 03:32 AM
07/10/18 03:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 213
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Jasper E. Offline
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Among Casios, I would recommend -x50 or above... AP-620 is in these terms x20, quite old. There have been improvements in key action and in sound. Really significant ones until x50.


Kawai KDP-90
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750523
07/10/18 03:53 AM
07/10/18 03:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
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Yamaha1634 Offline OP
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I've always been a fan of Yamaha products. My username has been with me for many many years from when I used to have a love for Yamaha guitars, now I have a full Yamaha home audio set up, as a brand I think they're great. Now I know very little about pianos but I find myself drawn to Yamaha. It appears this isn't the worst thing in the world as many seem to like their products.

As far as concerns new and used and cost etc, my initial idea was to look on eBay for something of a decent brand in the local area for around the £350-400 mark as a starter piano, but the more I look into it the more I realise how much of a minefield this is! I'm was happy with a used one until I found out that it's more about feel than it is about specs! And that all weighted hammer actions were not created equal!

I feel like my head is about to explode!

Last edited by Yamaha1634; 07/10/18 03:55 AM.
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750527
07/10/18 05:07 AM
07/10/18 05:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,136
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Online content
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Doug M.  Online Content
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,136
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Yamaha1634
The only issue I foresee with buying used is that we wouldn't necessarily get a chance to feel or play the piano before we committed to buy it. We would be buying entirely on specs and other people's reviews or opinions.


You might be able to ask the seller for a test prior to purchase if they are within travel distance.
The other way is to look for an instrument with the same action---either in a store or whatever.

The main issue with second hand is that you need to understand the condition it's in. Ebay is good because if the condition it arrives in isn't as advertised, you are assured your money back.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750529
07/10/18 05:40 AM
07/10/18 05:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,136
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Online content
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Doug M.  Online Content
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Yamaha1634


I feel like my head is about to explode!


Have you considered having a small cranial aperture drilled into your skull to release the pressure?
Seriously: you'll likely get a better deal by following a sound buyers strategy:
1) Identify the options
2) Analyse the options to define candidates (weight the options based upon need)
3) Try the candidates (gain objective and subjective comparisons)
4) Find deals (new, used)
5) Seek used if available, otherwise buy the best you can get.

Being impulsive might be expensive and potentially you'll end up with low value for money.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Doug M.] #2750530
07/10/18 05:43 AM
07/10/18 05:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
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Yamaha1634 Offline OP
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I've seen a few current model or previous model Yamaha's on eBay for £400-£450 but they're all 70-80 miles away, a little far to travel for a test 🤷🏻‍♂️ but I agree that would be the perfect solution!

My wife has just been back into the same music shop we tried yesterday to look into trying a Roland or Kawai <£800 model. They didn't have any Kawai in stock but had a Roland stage piano which she was told would have the same action and feel. She didn't like it, she thought it felt too light and preferred the heavier action of the Yamaha. Were going to try one more shop later which has various Kawai in stock so she can try those as well. But so far it appears that Yamaha is leading the race!

Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750534
07/10/18 06:24 AM
07/10/18 06:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,136
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Online content
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Doug M.  Online Content
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Yamaha1634
I've seen a few current model or previous model Yamaha's on eBay for £400-£450 but they're all 70-80 miles away, a little far to travel for a test 🤷🏻‍♂️ but I agree that would be the perfect solution!

My wife has just been back into the same music shop we tried yesterday to look into trying a Roland or Kawai <£800 model. They didn't have any Kawai in stock but had a Roland stage piano which she was told would have the same action and feel. She didn't like it, she thought it felt too light and preferred the heavier action of the Yamaha. Were going to try one more shop later which has various Kawai in stock so she can try those as well. But so far it appears that Yamaha is leading the race!


Don't just compare competitive models:
The goal in finding an action is to find one that most closely matches a good Grand Piano. In stores, there is usually at least one baby grand. Failing that, have a play with the Kawai Novus or Yamaha Avant Grand (just so you feel what an acoustic action feels like).
Then, compare that to the digitals you try.

Remember: one can always re-adapt to the action on the piano. A better action can always be mistaken for being rubbish because you're not used to the weight or feel; when-in-fact, it represents an upgrade from the action you were used to.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Doug M.] #2750535
07/10/18 06:28 AM
07/10/18 06:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
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Yamaha1634 Offline OP
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Yamaha1634  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Doug M.

Don't just compare competitive models:
The goal in finding an action is to find one that most closely matches a good Grand Piano. In stores, there is usually at least one baby grand. Failing that, have a play with the Kawai Novus or Yamaha Avant Grand (just so you feel what an acoustic action feels like).
Then, compare that to the digitals you try.

Remember: one can always re-adapt to the action on the piano. A better action can always be mistaken for being rubbish because you're not used to the weight or feel; when-in-fact, it represents an upgrade from the action you were used to.


Good advise!! Next time we're in a shop I'll get her to try an acoustic out and then find which she feels matches up best to it! I hadn't thought of it that way! She doesn't like to play in front of people as she's still quite new and feels her skills aren't up to public hearing! But even if she just presses random keys and pedals she will get a feel for it!

I'll report back with our findings!!

Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Yamaha1634] #2750538
07/10/18 06:59 AM
07/10/18 06:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 67
Pays de la Loire, France
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Hey Yamaha1634,

While looking for my first DP I learnt that portables piano seems to provide better value for money comparing to consoles.

Unless a furniture look and wood aesthetics sit on top of your requirements, I would suggest you and your wife to focus more on the slab format.
My impression is that the cabinet push the price up at the cost of the key action and sound engine without improving the speakers set up much.

All the big manufactures provide nice entry level offers and I couple of models have already been mentioned.

Just my two cents and good luck with your hunt.
F.


Kawai ES8, ISK HD9999 Phones
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Picotin] #2750539
07/10/18 07:11 AM
07/10/18 07:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
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Yamaha1634 Offline OP
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Yamaha1634  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Picotin
Hey Yamaha1634,

While looking for my first DP I learnt that portables piano seems to provide better value for money comparing to consoles.

Unless a furniture look and wood aesthetics sit on top of your requirements, I would suggest you and your wife to focus more on the slab format.
My impression is that the cabinet push the price up at the cost of the key action and sound engine without improving the speakers set up much.

All the big manufactures provide nice entry level offers and I couple of models have already been mentioned.

Just my two cents and good luck with your hunt.
F.

Thanks for the input! I did suggest that as an option but she would like to have the piano in the living room from now on, her current keyboard is set up in the spare bedroom but she'd like to have a nice looking furniture style piano to go on display...

Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Doug M.] #2750543
07/10/18 07:29 AM
07/10/18 07:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 397
UK
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Bambers Offline
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Originally Posted by Doug M.

You might also consider the Kawai KDP90 which has lots of fans among beginners.


It's the KDP110 now and has had a reasonable upgrade with 3 sensor action etc

Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Bambers] #2750557
07/10/18 08:34 AM
07/10/18 08:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,136
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Online content
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Doug M.  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Bambers
Originally Posted by Doug M.

You might also consider the Kawai KDP90 which has lots of fans among beginners.


It's the KDP110 now and has had a reasonable upgrade with 3 sensor action etc


Yeah, but it's £400 more than the his stated price range---why I suggested a used KDP90 :-)


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Brand new piano player! [Re: Doug M.] #2750558
07/10/18 08:41 AM
07/10/18 08:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
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Yamaha1634 Offline OP
Junior Member
Yamaha1634  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Bambers
Originally Posted by Doug M.

You might also consider the Kawai KDP90 which has lots of fans among beginners.


It's the KDP110 now and has had a reasonable upgrade with 3 sensor action etc


Yeah, but it's £400 more than the his stated price range---why I suggested a used KDP90 :-)
I did have a look at the kdp110 on eBay but there aren't any used ones, i looked in completed listings only to find that 2 weeks ago a kdp110 sold in brand new condition, with a height adjustable bench, 5miles down the road for £525!!! Gutted!

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