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Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: AlexBltn] #2749109
07/03/18 05:12 PM
07/03/18 05:12 PM
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sh1 Offline
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Again, I hadn't considered that...thanks for pointing out. Even though I wouldn't enjoy lugging the P515 on a regular basis, it would be fine to take to a shop for servicing. And the pedal issue too, is worthy of consideration.

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Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: Gombessa] #2749129
07/03/18 08:05 PM
07/03/18 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by anotherscott
I understand the appeal of authenticity in reproducing the experience as completely as possible, even if something doesn't actually facilitate better playing. Though IMO, most (not all) graded DP designs are so inauthentic in their gradedness that almost all they are is a word on a spec sheet to make someone think they're getting something more authentic. On a real acoustic piano, each of the 88 keys is slightly different in weight. Some graded designs have as few as 3 regions

This I can get on board with. For example, the MP11, which is widely regarded as one of the most authentic slab DPs, has only four zones. Now what you're talking about is precision. Maybe (and of course) it could be better...But to me, a more precise implementation is a far cry from the call to not bother replicating it at all because it is not a feature desireable in a platonic ideal of an acoustic piano in the first place.

I'm not calling for it to be eliminated, but I think that it's one of the less important things, and especially when duplicated to only a minimal extent anyway. I mean I'd much rather have an action that feels as good as the CP1/CP5 does (even though ungraded) than most other actions that I think don't feel as good but are graded. I don't think someone should cross something off their shopping list for missing a feature like this, when they might really enjoy playing it, and that's what it's all about. So many conversations here do end up largely revolving around a feature or a spec, when none of it is as important as feeling/hearing the things! So to bring this around to the topic at hand, I guess, I'd say to any naysayers, don't dismiss the P515 based on some attribute you wish it had... see how you like it when you get your hands on it. In the end, when choosing a piano, that's what matters.

Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: anotherscott] #2749185
07/04/18 04:08 AM
07/04/18 04:08 AM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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Bingo! A proper judgement derives from hands and ears, not from a spec sheet.
Originally Posted by anotherscott
So many conversations here do end up largely revolving around a feature or a spec, when none of it is as important as feeling/hearing the things!

Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: MacMacMac] #2749197
07/04/18 07:12 AM
07/04/18 07:12 AM
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Bingo! A proper judgement derives from hands and ears, not from a spec sheet.
Originally Posted by anotherscott
So many conversations here do end up largely revolving around a feature or a spec, when none of it is as important as feeling/hearing the things!


I would argue that both objective and subjective assessments are important depending upon the questioner's requirements and values.

The first assessment of any 'advise me' situation I think should be:
1) What are your requirements for the instrument (what do you intend to do with it, where will it live, does it need to be movable etc)?
2) What are your price constraints (are they fixed, will you consider used)?
3) Do you have any specifications that you'd like to have but don't need?


Then we need candidate products for the questioner.

Then we need to assess how those products rank according to the priorities/values/needs of the questioner.
a) Out of the following characteristics, please pick the top 3 characteristics, rating them 1, 2 and 3.
b) Please rank the rest of the characteristics list by how important they are to you (top being most important).
i)....
ii)...
iii)....
iv)...
v)
vi)
vii)
viii)
ix)
x)


Then, with a smaller candidate list for which we can give our subjective assessments of the pianos:
a) Which are our favourites
b) What we like about them
c) What we dislike about them
d) Any relevant subjective details.
e) Our conclusions in the round.



Without spec sheets, it's hard to make an objective comparison of similar models - amplification, dimensions, weight etc. Much of that is relevant for home or gig users. For instance, someone writes: what do you think - XXX model vs. YYY model? Well often, they aren't comparable because their specifications are of differing quality. If the questioner has specific needs, surely potential candidate models need filtering against those needs before subjective comparison is worth doing.

As hands and ears is a subjective experience, it's quite hard to translate ones personal judgement into the frame-of-reference of the questioner---hence the proviso "one should always test by oneself". Many questioners seek advice either: without having tested any instruments, or without having the capacity to visit a store to test. At least with objective attributes, one can accurately convey a point.

I think that the objective assessments should always come first, then subjective assessments---that way, the questioner has time to digest objective points before being subject to our biases!


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Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: AlexBltn] #2749203
07/04/18 07:50 AM
07/04/18 07:50 AM
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Some objective specs are obviously very useful. Dimensions, weight, price, whether it has speakers, whether it has whatever other sounds you may need, whether it has certain functions you're looking for (rhythms? splits/layers? etc.) But what I am talking about are specs that are intended my the manufacturer to tell you how good it must sound or feel. Beyond some *very* minimal attributes, they don't. Only feeling and hearing it does. Knowing whether an action is graded, or wooden, or triple sensor, or how big the piano sample size is, or how many of the 88 keys have been sampled, or how many velocity layers were used, is all almost meaningless on paper. You can think these things are important to you, and then go play the pianos, and find that a model that checks all the boxes sounds or feels worse to you than some other model that doesn't check any of them!

Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: anotherscott] #2749205
07/04/18 07:59 AM
07/04/18 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Some objective specs are obviously very useful. Dimensions, weight, price, whether it has speakers, whether it has whatever other sounds you may need, whether it has certain functions you're looking for (rhythms? splits/layers? etc.) But what I am talking about are specs that are intended my the manufacturer to tell you how good it must sound or feel. Beyond some *very* minimal attributes, they don't. Only feeling and hearing it does. Knowing whether an action is graded, or wooden, or triple sensor, or how big the piano sample size is, or how many of the 88 keys have been sampled, or how many velocity layers were used, is all almost meaningless on paper. You can think these things are important to you, and then go play the pianos, and find that a model that checks all the boxes sounds or feels worse to you than some other model that doesn't check any of them!


This is the point, I believe.

Casio have often been ahead in the specification race (number of sample layers, polyphony, hi resolution midi etc) but they seldom sound the best, I don't think. Yamaha lag behind in specification but tend to sound good and/or deliver in live concert situations. With the proviso that both Yamaha and Casio are good, and the differences fairly narrow and, in any case, subjective.


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Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: anotherscott] #2749246
07/04/18 10:38 AM
07/04/18 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott

I'm not calling for it to be eliminated, but I think that it's one of the less important things, and especially when duplicated to only a minimal extent anyway. I mean I'd much rather have an action that feels as good as the CP1/CP5 does (even though ungraded) than most other actions that I think don't feel as good but are graded


The thing I don't really get is *what* it is about the CP1/CP5 that is so good? Everything I've seen and felt with with the CP5 "NW-Stage" action is pretty much the same as the "BH" action on the Montage 8. It's fine, I like it, but it's not appreciably different from GH, GH3, NW or NWX in terms of feel. They're all in the same family to me (as with Roland's PHA-IV/PHA-50), and the adjustments on one don't translate to a revolutionary change in feel compared to a real acoustic grand action.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: AlexBltn] #2749258
07/04/18 11:19 AM
07/04/18 11:19 AM
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I haven't played a Montage 8. The CP1/CP5 feels lighter/quicker to me than CP4 or any of the GH/GH3 boards I've played (CP33, CP300, P155, etc.)

Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: anotherscott] #2749486
07/05/18 09:53 AM
07/05/18 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
I haven't played a Montage 8. The CP1/CP5 feels lighter/quicker to me than CP4 or any of the GH/GH3 boards I've played (CP33, CP300, P155, etc.)


It may feel quicker because it's not graded, so more "sluggish" sections in the bass are lighter? I recall Yamaha was trying to strike a balance between its acoustic and electric pianos with the CP1/CP5, which is why they made that choice with the NW-Stage action.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: AlexBltn] #2749906
07/07/18 01:55 AM
07/07/18 01:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,715
Sofia, Bulgaria
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This is a good competitor to ES8 IMO.

As I recently reported the supposedly "better" action in CLP675 is a total disaster and that's confirmed by other people on the forum too. So, it's the right decision to stick to their proven NWX action which is on par with Kawai RH3.

Furthermore, I think the new CFX patch in the latest Yamaha pianos is better than the piano sounds of Kawai, even if only very slightly. Yamaha also have the best harpsichord IMO and some of their other sounds are very good. If the sound system is comparable to that in the ES8, then it's a good achievement. Modeling has proven ineffective so far, and I applaud Yamaha for sticking to sampling smile


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Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: CyberGene] #2749931
07/07/18 05:12 AM
07/07/18 05:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,357
Northern England.
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
This is a good competitor to ES8 IMO.

As I recently reported the supposedly "better" action in CLP675 is a total disaster and that's confirmed by other people on the forum too. So, it's the right decision to stick to their proven NWX action which is on par with Kawai RH3.

Furthermore, I think the new CFX patch in the latest Yamaha pianos is better than the piano sounds of Kawai, even if only very slightly. Yamaha also have the best harpsichord IMO and some of their other sounds are very good. If the sound system is comparable to that in the ES8, then it's a good achievement. Modeling has proven ineffective so far, and I applaud Yamaha for sticking to sampling smile


The ES8 has been with us some time now. A new one designed to make a good impression (ie, blow the rest out of the water) may well be in the offing, soon.
Now, I tried one only a few days ago and the sound samples were good; each piano was distinct and well usable. The biggest let down, as with most portables is in the sound. It has hitherto been compromised. And, as it happens, rectified in the new Roland FP60, which now has the strength and depth of a console model. About time, too! The FP90 will no doubt exhibit this, and probably more, I haven't tried one yet.
So. In order to create this impression, there's a one step way of achieving this.
Grand Feel Compact!! YAAAAAAYY !! Bring it on, guys . . . .Oh, hang on; what will the price be?? With stand and triple pedal, £1550, no more. I'd buy it!

Last edited by peterws; 07/07/18 05:19 AM.

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Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: peterws] #2749940
07/07/18 06:32 AM
07/07/18 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by peterws
The ES8 has been with us some time now. A new one designed to make a good impression (ie, blow the rest out of the water) may well be in the offing, soon.
...
In order to create this impression, there's a one step way of achieving this. Grand Feel Compact!!


I agree, Peter. This would be a fitting response by Kawai and I hope it happens.

Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: peterws] #2749958
07/07/18 08:29 AM
07/07/18 08:29 AM
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Mountain Brook, AL, USA
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Originally Posted by peterws
The ES8 has been with us some time now. A new one designed to make a good impression (ie, blow the rest out of the water) may well be in the offing, soon.
Now, I tried one only a few days ago and the sound samples were good; each piano was distinct and well usable. The biggest let down, as with most portables is in the sound. It has hitherto been compromised. And, as it happens, rectified in the new Roland FP60, which now has the strength and depth of a console model. About time, too! The FP90 will no doubt exhibit this, and probably more, I haven't tried one yet.
So. In order to create this impression, there's a one step way of achieving this.
Grand Feel Compact!! YAAAAAAYY !! Bring it on, guys . . . .Oh, hang on; what will the price be?? With stand and triple pedal, £1550, no more. I'd buy it!

dang! poor yamaha!
two months before their new unit even hits the street, it’s already being blow out of the water by a kawai that hasn’t been announced! wink


.... Jeff /// Yamaha P515 /// Roll Tide
Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: jeffscot] #2749986
07/07/18 10:21 AM
07/07/18 10:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,357
Northern England.
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Originally Posted by Jefsco
Originally Posted by peterws
The ES8 has been with us some time now. A new one designed to make a good impression (ie, blow the rest out of the water) may well be in the offing, soon.
Now, I tried one only a few days ago and the sound samples were good; each piano was distinct and well usable. The biggest let down, as with most portables is in the sound. It has hitherto been compromised. And, as it happens, rectified in the new Roland FP60, which now has the strength and depth of a console model. About time, too! The FP90 will no doubt exhibit this, and probably more, I haven't tried one yet.
So. In order to create this impression, there's a one step way of achieving this.
Grand Feel Compact!! YAAAAAAYY !! Bring it on, guys . . . .Oh, hang on; what will the price be?? With stand and triple pedal, £1550, no more. I'd buy it!

dang! poor yamaha!
two months before their new unit even hits the street, it’s already being blow out of the water by a kawai that hasn’t been announced! wink



Yamaha will be aware of this possibility anyway. So you can rest assured their response will be forthcoming depending on one thing. Like, sales of the P515 . . .that'll tell them all they need to know.


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Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: CyberGene] #2750068
07/07/18 04:51 PM
07/07/18 04:51 PM
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Europe
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
This is a good competitor to ES8 IMO.

As I recently reported the supposedly "better" action in CLP675 is a total disaster and that's confirmed by other people on the forum too. So, it's the right decision to stick to their proven NWX action which is on par with Kawai RH3.

I hope it survives shipping better than Kawai actions. wink

Quote
Furthermore, I think the new CFX patch in the latest Yamaha pianos is better than the piano sounds of Kawai, even if only very slightly. Yamaha also have the best harpsichord IMO and some of their other sounds are very good. If the sound system is comparable to that in the ES8, then it's a good achievement. Modeling has proven ineffective so far, and I applaud Yamaha for sticking to sampling smile

I'm looking forward to testing it and comparing it to the ES8. On paper the wooden action, the CFX and the new 3-pedal stand sounds like a perfect match for what I'm looking for as a replacement for the ES100. Especially at that price level, now where the CA58 priced itself out of my market and the CA17 is not available anymore.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7605
Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: AlexBltn] #2758619
08/15/18 12:40 PM
08/15/18 12:40 PM
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Kraft Music just posted a 38-minute presentation of the P-515 by Gabriel Aldort of Yamaha on YouTube. I guess they are getting ready for the first shipments next month.

Gabe is an engaging presenter, but I wish that demos showed more of the dynamic range of the instrument. It would be great if they played classical music, or even progressive rock, rather than only light jazz. I guess one can expect to learn only so much from demos, so I look forward to trying the P-515 in person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRcR_ybOYxs

Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: AlexBltn] #2761993
08/30/18 02:06 PM
08/30/18 02:06 PM
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Mountain Brook, AL, USA
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received an email reply from yamaha today on when the p515 will start shipping.
they replied that the p515 black would start shipping late september, early october.

i imagine the available dates listed online at dealers takes into consideration presales, and estimates when units would be available for additional sales.


.... Jeff /// Yamaha P515 /// Roll Tide
Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: AlexBltn] #2762428
09/01/18 09:06 AM
09/01/18 09:06 AM
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Mountain Brook, AL, USA
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jeffscot Offline
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nice vid on the p515 i haven’t seen posted here.



.... Jeff /// Yamaha P515 /// Roll Tide
Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: Bambers] #2762443
09/01/18 09:54 AM
09/01/18 09:54 AM
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Toronto, Canada
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Originally Posted by Bambers
Seems about time though, the P255 was a bit of a dinosaur and well overdue replacement.


Apparently somebody already started a discussion:
Yamaha p515 vs Roland FP90

Personally don't think the Yamaha P255 will be replaced by the P515. The lower keyboard model may be a dinosaur but it belongs to a different price range. Not everybody want to pay the price of a P515 because the sound is better. The P255 is for people who don't mind getting less features for a cheaper price. Even the P125 with a less than ideal piano sound would stay around as an entry level keyboard for people who are beginners.

I've been to several piano shops in my area and looks like the P515 isn't on display just yet. The few thing I know from what I've seen online include piano settings for CFX & Bösendorfer, adjustable hall settings (concert hall, church, auditorium sort of thing). Have to wait around for another month or two before able to test it in the store.

Re: Yamaha P-515 portable digital piano [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2762498
09/01/18 02:22 PM
09/01/18 02:22 PM
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Europe
JoeT Offline
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Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
Personally don't think the Yamaha P255 will be replaced by the P515. The lower keyboard model may be a dinosaur but it belongs to a different price range.

In Europe, ES8, FP-90, P-255 and P-515 are all in the same price range.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7605
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