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Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749728
07/06/18 09:59 AM
07/06/18 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc


Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


Nice improvisation smile

I've always wanted to purchase Ivory II American Concert D to compare it to the Galaxy Pianos i have. Is ivory still iLok only?

Last edited by Jay017; 07/06/18 09:59 AM.
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Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749736
07/06/18 10:14 AM
07/06/18 10:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,875
France
Frédéric L Online content
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Frédéric L  Online Content
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No : the iLok key is optional since the Ivory 2.5 player. See https://synthogy.com/index.php/products/software-products/ivory-2-american-concert-d

If you still have the 2.0 player, go here to download it : https://synthogy.com/index.php/support/updates (click on the PC or the Mac depending of your configuration).

(Note : I prefer to see my licences on a dongle. I suppose I have more risk of having a PC out of order than a dongle... and iLok can exchange a dongle and recover their activations after readind its serial number).

Last edited by Frédéric L; 07/06/18 10:19 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: -Jay-] #2749771
07/06/18 12:06 PM
07/06/18 12:06 PM
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tdwctdwc Offline
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Originally Posted by Jay017
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc


Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


Nice improvisation smile

I've always wanted to purchase Ivory II American Concert D to compare it to the Galaxy Pianos i have. Is ivory still iLok only?

Thanks Jay. Yes as Frédéric L said, with the 2.5 update you don't need a key anymore, you ilok account will sync to the machine id now.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749780
07/06/18 12:51 PM
07/06/18 12:51 PM
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pold Offline
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.

Last edited by pold; 07/06/18 12:56 PM.
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Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pold] #2749782
07/06/18 01:11 PM
07/06/18 01:11 PM
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tdwctdwc Offline
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.


Thank you very much pold. If you’re talking about the tracks featured in my page’s “Spotlight’, that’s the Ravenscroft 275 ( audience perspective).

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pold] #2749786
07/06/18 01:21 PM
07/06/18 01:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.


tdwctdwc, nice to hear another lover of Ivory American D, and nice playing, it is still amongst one of my favourites,but I don't nearly own as many VST as some here. I use it more than CFX lite, which get so much praise. For me, as an allround package it feels and plays well for me, but I am not at the level of tdwctdwc.

These days, ACD doesn't get much mention anymore, but I am still very happy with it. The build in controls for shimmer and reverb are good too, though I use Valhalla room, the simpler ones in Ivory do the job fine too at a more basic level. One of the down sides for some perhaps, you don't get different mic perspectives, just the one. The lack of pedal down samples may bother some, but in turn, because of the modeling engine Ivory uses for that, it gives a very natural feel to partial pedal inputs as well I find.

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 07/06/18 01:22 PM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: Alexander Borro] #2749787
07/06/18 01:33 PM
07/06/18 01:33 PM
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tdwctdwc Offline
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Thank You Alexander. I agree with you. I think the Ivory engine is very well thought of and programmed. It's also very responsive to the slightest tweaks, you will be very surprised with the results.

For example: Choose a different soundboard (medium resonant per say) and turn down the sustain resonance knob a bit instead of leaving it at default. Big difference.

Or turn up the sympathetic resonance around 4 db, the piano comes alive.

I also love that they let you choose at which velocity the silent key starts.

Very well thought of engine.

I'll put it this way: If Ivory is good enough for Chick Corea then it's good enough for me!

(Starting to sound like an Ivory salesman now lol)

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749834
07/06/18 05:20 PM
07/06/18 05:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 217
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pold Offline
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.


Thank you very much pold. If you’re talking about the tracks featured in my page’s “Spotlight’, that’s the Ravenscroft 275 ( audience perspective).


I was talking about tracks like "Tell me why" and "Forever", was it the Ravenscroft VST? It sounds huge, but maybe it's just the first impression only because the volume is louder than the Ivory.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pold] #2749838
07/06/18 05:38 PM
07/06/18 05:38 PM
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tdwctdwc Offline
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.


Thank you very much pold. If you’re talking about the tracks featured in my page’s “Spotlight’, that’s the Ravenscroft 275 ( audience perspective).


I was talking about tracks like "Tell me why" and "Forever", was it the Ravenscroft VST? It sounds huge, but maybe it's just the first impression only because the volume is louder than the Ivory.

Yes that's the Ravenscroft. But those tracks were mastered while the Ivory jam i posted was completely raw, didn't even touch the volume (left it at 0 with no clipping).

You're not the first who compliment me on that Ravenscroft sound. I guess that mic combination works well (Player + Side mics + stereo image switched to Audience).

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749898
07/07/18 12:29 AM
07/07/18 12:29 AM
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Posts: 49
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lvercaut Offline OP
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Thanks everyone, i gonna try American D one more time.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749902
07/07/18 12:54 AM
07/07/18 12:54 AM
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Antwerp
Fantastic playing tdwctdwc !
Now, if i can dial out that muddy midrange around middle c and few notes up...
If not, i'll buy that 'vintage' Vintage D.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749908
07/07/18 02:26 AM
07/07/18 02:26 AM
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by lvercaut
Thanks everyone, i gonna try American D one more time.

If you already play that piano and you dont like it, hardly to expect more. I have also that piano, I was try to put it back on the table many times and nothing. No emotion about it and finally delete it for good. Overall it is good digital piano, working good but sound is so unrealistic, nothing like acoustic piano when you play it. Too digital and process. Maybe it will working for you for the second time.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749912
07/07/18 03:16 AM
07/07/18 03:16 AM
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-Jay- Offline
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Originally Posted by lvercaut
Thanks everyone, i gonna try American D one more time.

If you already play that piano and you don't like it, hardly to expect more. I have also that piano, I was try to put it back on the table many times and nothing. No emotion about it and finally delete it for good. Overall it is good digital piano, working good but sound is so unrealistic, nothing like acoustic piano when you play it. Too digital and process. Maybe it will working for you for the second time.


The recording by tdwctdwc of Ivory II American Concert D sounds far from unrealistic and nothing like an acoustic piano. But then again I think the Garritan CFX library is very overrated on here, well sonically. The playability is incredible but I never can get it to sound that inspiring and it always sound thin/soft to me with no weight to the mids/bass (almost like it needs to be run through some analogue processing plugins). In fact I think Galaxy Vintage D which is around 5 GB and a single mic perspective has much more character and translates much better on headphones in comparison to CFX. So it just goes to show how subjective piano libraries are.

Last edited by Jay017; 07/07/18 03:19 AM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: -Jay-] #2749922
07/07/18 04:26 AM
07/07/18 04:26 AM
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by Jay017
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Originally Posted by lvercaut
Thanks everyone, i gonna try American D one more time.

If you already play that piano and you don't like it, hardly to expect more. I have also that piano, I was try to put it back on the table many times and nothing. No emotion about it and finally delete it for good. Overall it is good digital piano, working good but sound is so unrealistic, nothing like acoustic piano when you play it. Too digital and process. Maybe it will working for you for the second time.


The recording by tdwctdwc of Ivory II American Concert D sounds far from unrealistic and nothing like an acoustic piano. But then again I think the Garritan CFX library is very overrated on here, well sonically. The playability is incredible but I never can get it to sound that inspiring and it always sound thin/soft to me with no weight to the mids/bass (almost like it needs to be run through some analogue processing plugins). In fact I think Galaxy Vintage D which is around 5 GB and a single mic perspective has much more character and translates much better on headphones in comparison to CFX. So it just goes to show how subjective piano libraries are.

Yeah, I was thinking that too when I first heard that piano, it sounds good from distance, thats why I bought it, till I start playing, empty sound nowhere near acoustic sound and resonance. No inspiring at all. I love Garritan for the same reason like you and also find a little boring and thin. VSL CFX is more realistic, but overall Garritan is excellent library. Nobody here mention new Embertone Steinway D, and this is by far the best sounding Steinway D library at the moment. There is a thread here about it to not repeat myself. I agree about how subjective pianos libraries are.

Last edited by slobajudge; 07/07/18 04:27 AM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: slobajudge] #2749932
07/07/18 05:13 AM
07/07/18 05:13 AM
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tdwctdwc Offline
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Originally Posted by slobajudge

Yeah, I was thinking that too when I first heard that piano, it sounds good from distance, thats why I bought it, till I start playing, empty sound nowhere near acoustic sound and resonance.

Hi Slobajudge, I have disagree with you on that. The playability and feel of the American D is the best for me. The way Synthogy scripted the velocity layers is in my opinion the best in the business. You'll hear no gaps between velocities. On paper they say 20 layers, you'll get 20 layers scripted to perfection.

Funny story: Yesterday i played a Yamaha C7x acoustic grand, fantastic instrument to play (but that's another subject). I came back home, turned on my controller and played the American D: Of course there's nothing that replaces an acoustic piano but i can tell you that i felt very thankful for the technology we have today because the experience of playing the American D made me forgive myself that i don't have 200,000 $ for that C7x.

I don't know if you still have the American D, but try this:

- Regarding the resonance: You're right, the "clean soundboard" sounds dead but that's exactly why they gave you other soundboard options to play with. Try the "medium resonant" option and turn down the knob to around -2 db and see the difference. The piano will come alive.

- Regarding the boxy dead sound: Try turning down the key noise to around -10.5 db. This will remove all the woody mud present in the sound.



Last edited by tdwctdwc; 07/07/18 05:15 AM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749943
07/07/18 07:13 AM
07/07/18 07:13 AM
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Just for fun since the OP was initially asking about the Kronos pianos, here's a comparison of the Kronos pianos:


- Kronos Bechstein: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/kronos-bechstein



- Kronos Steinway: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/kronos-steinway



- Kronos Dark Steinway: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/kronos-steinway-dark



P:S: The silences in the Bechstein file are because it's a demo version i'm trying. The silences will go away when you buy it!

Also both Steinway were recorded in the Audience perspective (flipped stereo image), i like the sound better that way. The Bechstein was not, it was left on Player perspective.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749954
07/07/18 08:00 AM
07/07/18 08:00 AM
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Posts: 315
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EVC2017 Offline
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Also both Steinway were recorded in the Audience perspective (flipped stereo image), i like the sound better that way. The Bechstein was not, it was left on Player perspective.


Interesting, I was a little distracted while listening (sorry for that) when I noticed something odd and they I realized bass was comming from the right (I am listening with the notebook's speakers - just enjoying the song). Stereo effect very noticeable even with poor speakers. Listening throught headphones now.

Nice playing, BTW.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749999
07/07/18 10:47 AM
07/07/18 10:47 AM
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc

I don't know if you still have the American D, but try this:

- Regarding the resonance: You're right, the "clean soundboard" sounds dead but that's exactly why they gave you other soundboard options to play with. Try the "medium resonant" option and turn down the knob to around -2 db and see the difference. The piano will come alive.

- Regarding the boxy dead sound: Try turning down the key noise to around -10.5 db. This will remove all the woody mud present in the sound.

Thanks for the tips, I was try with different settings unfortunately doesn`t work for me like working for you. Now after Emberton there is no way to bring Ivory back, I already try that for at least 15 times in the last couple of years smile

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2750046
07/07/18 02:27 PM
07/07/18 02:27 PM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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What about the imperfect samples steinway, I like the demos, I don't own it,

http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website/samples/steinwayconcertgrand/steinwaygrandpiano.php

Anyone owns it care to comment ?

I am suspicious because IMHO all of kontakt pianos are flawed and unreliable triggering unwanted notes too loud and some odd behaviour under half pedal/repedal conditions from time to time that can be frustrating, pianos like grandeur, maverick etc, though otherwise I like them for tone.

I haven't bought a VST piano in ages and a new i7 8700 bundle is coming on Monday to complete my new setup with the CA78. To treat myself I feel tempted buying another VST finally ... for a change . VSL CFX is strong on my radar, but that is OT, this thread about Steinways.


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: EVC2017] #2750047
07/07/18 02:36 PM
07/07/18 02:36 PM
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Posts: 1,395
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Also both Steinway were recorded in the Audience perspective (flipped stereo image), i like the sound better that way. The Bechstein was not, it was left on Player perspective.


Interesting, I was a little distracted while listening (sorry for that) when I noticed something odd and they I realized bass was comming from the right (I am listening with the notebook's speakers - just enjoying the song). Stereo effect very noticeable even with poor speakers. Listening throught headphones now.

Nice playing, BTW.

Yes I agree, the panning is extreme in the recordings, but sometimes some like it for artistic licence ... as it were. nothing wrong with that IMO, to each their own, though I wouldn't do it myself. If there is quite a pronounced stereo spread, I never really enjoy the audience perspective for some reason, I am so used to the player one, so it feels odd.


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
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