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Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
JoBert #2749565 07/05/18 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
So they say "we use higher-quality wood for our piano keys" and then "oh, and here's a picture of the Austrian Spruce that C. Bechstein uses for their piano keys" ... "Ooops, did we give the impression that we use that same Austrian Spruce? blush Nooo, that's not what we wanted to say, pinkie promise! wink"


Even if they were using Austrian Spruce (and I tend to agree with you that they don't actually say they do anywhere in that advert - they just put photos of piles of wood in a kind of workshop or store) there's a bit of sleight of hand going on simply by using this term 'Austrian Spruce' as if it's some kind of big deal. In fact spruce is about the cheapest commoditized wood around. It's common pine. Lumber. A lot of it is pulped up to make hardboard or paper. And (although I could be wrong) I don't suppose there's a great deal of difference whether it grows in Austria, Germany, Poland or anywhere else.

But they make it sound so precious:.....ohhh Austrian Spruce!! It must be good!! But it's actually Christmas tree.


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Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
Gabriel Hikaru #2749573 07/05/18 05:35 PM
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Look ... advertising copy is just crap. Loads and loads of rich brown crap. Ignore it.

I don't care whether they claim "Rich Corinthian Leather". It's still a load of crap. And such crap should be ignored.

If there's ANY wish to get something meaningful ... go find the piano and try it out. That's really all that matters, eh?

And ... just wait a minute ... is the type of wood really that important? For the soundboard, yes. For the keys, not so much.

So ... FINEST AUSTRIAN SPRUCE? What's wrong with RUN-OF-THE-MILL BOXWOOD? (Answer: nothing wrong with that.)

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
JoBert #2749580 07/05/18 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
The proof of that is actually in the posts like the one further up here in this thread, where the poster (Mario, I think?) did indeed compare the GP to the NU-1X (at half the price!) based on the assumption that they are in the same category of "hybrid". I.e. the GP is the cheapest hybrid, the next cheapest is the NU-1X above it, etc. That whole comparison only makes sense if you assume that they are the same type of "hybrid" (and we've seen other similar posts before).


Yes, I was misleaded by Casio marketing. I apologize for not to have been more carefull. These are similar but not the same kind of action technologies. I think it would be fair to put de Casio GP action in the same categorie of Kawai Grand Feel action in what they try to achieve.

I also find out that Kawai UK considers three types of "hybrid" pianos:

AnyTime Grand Pianos
Anytime Upright Pianos
Hybrid Digital Pianos

In this last categorie they put not only the Novus NV 10 but also CS 11 and CS 98.

So, "hybrid" is indeed the new magical word.

http://www.kawai.co.uk/products/hybridpianos/anytimegrandpianos/
http://www.kawai.co.uk/products/hybridpianos/anytimeuprightpianos/
http://www.kawai.co.uk/products/hybridpianos/hybriddigitalpianos/

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
Gabriel Hikaru #2749581 07/05/18 06:34 PM
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toddy, it actually does make a difference in the wood where the tree is grown. wood chosen to be used for key sticks won't be the same as what's intended for the soundboard, at least from any builder who cares. the best spruce for soundboards comes from a select few places including Austria and Bavaria where the extremely slow growth contributes to density.

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
MacMacMac #2749582 07/05/18 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Look ... advertising copy is just crap.


Amen.

Incidentally, as many here will already know, piano soundboards are made of........spruce. But it's a particular flexible and compliant variety of spruce: Sitka spruce. And it's the expertise of the craftsmanship that makes it something remarkable, I'd think.

Gabriel Hikaru, if you haven't fled due to our rather disreputable and rowdy behaviour, have you compared the CA48 with the VPC1? Have you managed to find a piano (I understood you were basically looking for a controller as you'll be using VSTi and external amplification) that suits? Roland FP90 and Yamaha P515 might be worth comparing too, f you can find them.


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Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
toddy #2749584 07/05/18 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy

Gabriel Hikaru, if you haven't fled due to our rather disreputable and rowdy behaviour, have you compared the CA48 with the VPC1? Have you managed to find a piano (I understood you were basically looking for a controller as you'll be using VSTi and external amplification) that suits? Roland FP90 and Yamaha P515 might be worth comparing too, f you can find them.


I've decided to get the Kawai CA-48 with Focal Alpha 80 external speakers. I'm not too concerned with comparing actions between DPs since the action varies greatly between acoustic pianos. I'm content as long as the action feels realistic.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
Gabriel Hikaru #2749606 07/05/18 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Gabriel Hikaru
I've decided to get the Kawai CA-48 with Focal Alpha 80 external speakers. I'm not too concerned with comparing actions between DPs since the action varies greatly between acoustic pianos. I'm content as long as the action feels realistic.

Should be a great-playing, great-sounding setup!

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
Gabriel Hikaru #2749645 07/06/18 02:11 AM
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+1
You're getting a fantastic "instrument" there with that combo. It will play and sound incredible!

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
Gabriel Hikaru #2749659 07/06/18 04:57 AM
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toddy, sitka spruce is from sitka, Alaska, u.s.a., and what is chosen for soundboards from there shares many qualities as the spruce for soundboards from Bavaria or Austria. maybe you're more familiar with pianos built in asia rather than those made in Germany and Austria ?

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
huaidongxi #2749661 07/06/18 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by huaidongxi
toddy, sitka spruce is from sitka, Alaska, u.s.a., and what is chosen for soundboards from there shares many qualities as the spruce for soundboards from Bavaria or Austria. maybe you're more familiar with pianos built in asia rather than those made in Germany and Austria ?


huaidongxi, I have to admit to being completely ignorant about the wood used in soundboards except for a bit of online research. You know far more about it. But several sources said that Sitka spruce was the material chosen.

Gabriel Hikaru, that sounds like a great combination.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
huaidongxi #2749674 07/06/18 06:30 AM
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Sitka is from alaska in terms of origin but it is not all grown there. It's a pretty common 'farmed' timber species.

It makes up about half of UK commercial timber plantations for instance.

The key thing with the wood, and what actually makes it a bit more expensive than the bog standard rubbish you get at the DIY shed is partly grading after it's been cut and, perhaps most importantly, aging it, so it does all the warping it's going to do as it seasons before you cut it into keys. Aging wood takes space and time (+ energy if you kiln dry it) and all that tends to cost more money than growing the tree in the first place!

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
Gabriel Hikaru #2749689 07/06/18 08:00 AM
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Steinway/New York claims to search far and wide for the finest Sitka spruce from Canada.
The German makers also search for the finest spruce ... and they get theirs from the Alps. Presumably it's still spruce, but not Sitka spruce.
Where do the Asian makers get theirs? Dunno.

Regardless ... this is not related to this thread titled "Which digital piano should I get?", nor to the OP's ultimate choice of the CA48 piano.
So, for more on spruce you might take to the Piano Forum or the Technician's Forum.

Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
Gabriel Hikaru #2749701 07/06/18 09:13 AM
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I think the OP got what he needed, so there's no real harm in thread drift at this point.


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Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
mcoll #2749725 07/06/18 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pwl
Originally Posted by Gabriel Hikaru
I've decided to get the Kawai CA-48 with Focal Alpha 80 external speakers. I'm not too concerned with comparing actions between DPs since the action varies greatly between acoustic pianos. I'm content as long as the action feels realistic.

Should be a great-playing, great-sounding setup!


Originally Posted by mcoll
+1
You're getting a fantastic "instrument" there with that combo. It will play and sound incredible!


I agree. The Focals sound fantastic, they are very close to acoustically flat and have great bass response and in my opinion a step above other monitors in that price range. In my opinion the Kawai Grand Feel action is still one the best piano actions available and highly recommended on here, Great combination smile

Last edited by Jay017; 07/06/18 10:53 AM.
Re: Which Digital Piano Should I Get?
Gabriel Hikaru #2749919 07/07/18 05:12 AM
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I have the Alpha 65 - they exceeded all my expectations compared to JBL LSR 305 and the Presonus Eris E8. They are well worth the price difference.

Now, coming back to the subject of spruce for a bit, here's an interesting fact:
About 2-3 years ago I looked up the CFX out of curiosity and on Yamaha CFX's official page, they said it was made from "rumanien" spruce. Meanwhile they changed it to this:
"Only the most carefully selected European spruce is used for the soundboard. A new method for attaching the ribs to the soundboard helps free it from stress, adding rich overtones to the sound for a wide range of expressive tonal colors."

Maybe they changed it because of scandals regarding illegal wood exploitation (Schweighofer, Ikea and others involved) from protected areas and virgin forests (the last remaining ones or largest ones in Europe IIRC). Or maybe they are sourcing it form elsewhere now.

And while we're on the subject, if anyone's interested, here's a worrying investigation done by France 2 about the deforestation in Romania (in french):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LA_GOAmILs

A nice documentary about the virgin forests in Romania (in french):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQB2hR4v114

And an entire playlist of travel documentaries (Wild Carpathia and others) in English, for those that enjoy this kind of shows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKV6qPYDqwE&list=PLX-LY-4jDsWb6gb46x5PGBcoh3WpsQzPA

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