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Looking for the very best German Steinway D software #2749204
07/04/18 08:50 AM
07/04/18 08:50 AM
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lvercaut Offline OP
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Is it still Ivory 2 ? or Korg Kronos ? or …?
I want a German D, not interested in American D.
Thanks

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Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749207
07/04/18 09:08 AM
07/04/18 09:08 AM
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toddy Offline
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Look at Galaxy Vintage D (old but considered very good - even best available), Native Instruments The Grandeur (same technical team as above, but newer), Production Voices Concert Grand (new, full version is enormous but compact version available).

Not certain about the exact provenance of them, but they're all Steinway concert grands.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749221
07/04/18 10:45 AM
07/04/18 10:45 AM
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Galaxy Vintage D I would recommend.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: toddy] #2749222
07/04/18 10:46 AM
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Yes, that old Vintage D is very playable, but is it a German Hamburg D ?
PV is American D.
Thanks toddy.

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Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: -Jay-] #2749232
07/04/18 11:08 AM
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lvercaut Offline OP
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Thanks Jay017.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749238
07/04/18 11:13 AM
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lvercaut Offline OP
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Maybe it's not the very best library, i'm looking for that German D as in Korg Kronos and Grandstage...…..but in software for my iMac..Which comes closest ? or is better with the same tonal character ?
Vintage D is very editable ? Right ?

Last edited by lvercaut; 07/04/18 11:19 AM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749247
07/04/18 11:40 AM
07/04/18 11:40 AM
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The PianoTeq Steinway D is among their best pianos (my favourite of the PianoTeq menu). You can demo that for free.

The PianoTeq pro version does 192KHz internal processing; this is rare case where high-sampling rate MIGHT improve sound qualtiy for consumer (there is a thread at the PianoTeq forum with audio files of ONE note decaying). The thread's 192 wav note sounded much more natural than the lower sample rate note; but who knows if you will notice a difference playing. Or if the wav files were done incorrectly. Of if the processing will kill your laptop. You can't demo the Pro version so that would be an expensive trial indeed. Maybe your local music store has PianoTeq Pro running on display (mine does I think so I should try). . .

___

The Production Voices Steinway compact sounds superb overall, but is more of a beta release (in my view), so has a few issues to finalise. The upcoming Full versions will have more mics and hopefully the major issues ironed out. The Full comes in several flavours 16/44.1KHz will be rather large. Higher sample rate versions are huge and really designed for producers. There is a recent post here from Jason with estimated sizes and expected release this summer. This has a lot of potential. . .

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: newer player] #2749254
07/04/18 12:11 PM
07/04/18 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player

The Production Voices Steinway compact sounds superb overall, but is more of a beta release (in my view), so has a few issues to finalise. The upcoming Full versions will have more mics and hopefully the major issues ironed out. The Full comes in several flavours 16/44.1KHz will be rather large. Higher sample rate versions are huge and really designed for producers. There is a recent post here from Jason with estimated sizes and expected release this summer. This has a lot of potential. . .


Just out of interest, what issues did you find with Production Voices Steinway Compact. Obviously one microphone perspective is going to limit the sound sonically but how good/bad was the playability and how close is it to CFX.

Last edited by Jay017; 07/04/18 12:13 PM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749260
07/04/18 12:27 PM
07/04/18 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lvercaut
Maybe it's not the very best library, i'm looking for that German D as in Korg Kronos and Grandstage...…..but in software for my iMac..Which comes closest ? or is better with the same tonal character ?
Vintage D is very editable ? Right ?

You’re not going to find anything in the software world that sounds exactly the same as the Kronos German D. I know this because i own a Kronos since 2011 and i also happen to own or tried every single piano Vst in existence.

Is it the tone that you like in the Kronos piano or is it the “fullness” and body? I’m asking so i can help you find alternatives.

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 07/04/18 12:28 PM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: -Jay-] #2749261
07/04/18 12:28 PM
07/04/18 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay017
Just out of interest, what issues did you find with Production Voices Steinway Compact. Obviously one microphone perspective is going to limit the sound sonically but how good/bad was the playability and how close is it to CFX.


This thread provides a fair view from several members here:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2729689/1.html

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749266
07/04/18 12:58 PM
07/04/18 12:58 PM
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Vintage D is a Hamburg D. They say it right at the beginning of their video.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749276
07/04/18 02:07 PM
07/04/18 02:07 PM
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Is it the tone that you like in the Kronos piano or is it the “fullness” and body? I’m asking so i can help you find alternatives.[/quote]

Yes indeed, it's that fullness and body i'm looking for and i also don't find this in my nordstage.

i really love my nordstage but if i compare that Kronos or Grandstage German grand with nord's Grand Lady D , the stage sound like a carton box (sorry nord , i love your products and owned them since the beginning and always will).

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749278
07/04/18 02:14 PM
07/04/18 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lvercaut


Yes indeed, it's that fullness and body i'm looking for and i also don't find this in my nordstage.

i really love my nordstage but if i compare that Kronos or Grandstage German grand with nord's Grand Lady D , the stage sound like a carton box (sorry nord , i love your products and owned them since the beginning and always will).

Get Keyscape then. I know it’s not a Steinway but it’s the only one that will get you in that ballpark and then some more.

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 07/04/18 02:15 PM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749386
07/05/18 01:02 AM
07/05/18 01:02 AM
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MacMacMac Offline
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No, it's a New York Steinway from the 1920s.
Originally Posted by lvercaut
Yes, that old Vintage D is very playable, but is it a German Hamburg D ?

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: MacMacMac] #2749389
07/05/18 01:30 AM
07/05/18 01:30 AM
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Macy Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
No, it's a New York Steinway from the 1920s.
Originally Posted by lvercaut
Yes, that old Vintage D is very playable, but is it a German Hamburg D ?



Nope. From the Galaxy website:

"Bauer Studios' Steinway D grand piano was built in 1920 in Hamburg, the german factory
of Steinway & Sons. Over almost 90 years this instrument has achieved a
very deep and intimate timbre, thus providing an energetic personality and
a beautiful singing tone. Richie Beirach called it 'The best piano in the world’"

"Many pianists have used this particular grand piano during their recording sessions including Monty Alexander, George Gruntz, Joe Sample, Geri Allen, Kevin Hays, Wolfgang Schmid, Richie Beirach, Abdullah Ibrahim, Martin Schrack, Carla Bley, Simon Nabatov, Aki Takase, Rainer Brüninghaus, Oregon, John Taylor, Uri Cane, Kristjan Randalu, Olivia Trummer, Frank Chastenier, Ozone Makato, Ralph Towner, Chick Corea, Jörg Reiter, Florian Weber, Wolfgang Dauner, Guillermo and Gonzalo Rubalcaba, Aziza Mustafa Zadeh, Dieter Falk and Keith Jarrett."

"To keep and enhance the warm and lively character of the instrument, the VINTAGE D has been recorded with modern high-end microphones, but also with vintage tube mics, especially the legendary Neumann U47 and KM53. Center of the control room at Bauer Studios is an AMS Neve Console, which has been extensively in use for the recordings, supplemented by other special preamps like the very rare Telefunken V41. The resulting sound is a combination of different microphone levels, no compression or eq has been used within the mix: It's the 'real thing'"

I highly recommend it. It's my favorite sampled Steinway.


Macy

CVP-409GP, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Pianoteq, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad Pro/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749451
07/05/18 08:49 AM
07/05/18 08:49 AM
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MacMacMac Offline
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I guess my old memory needs as much regulation as that old Steinway did.
Originally Posted by Macy
"Bauer Studios' Steinway D grand piano was built in 1920 in Hamburg ...

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: MacMacMac] #2749508
07/05/18 12:26 PM
07/05/18 12:26 PM
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lvercaut Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I guess my old memory needs as much regulation as that old Steinway did.
Originally Posted by Macy
"Bauer Studios' Steinway D grand piano was built in 1920 in Hamburg ...

Haha, no problem MacMacMac, any input is much appreciated !
This is a high quality forum and we learn from each other !

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749551
07/05/18 03:35 PM
07/05/18 03:35 PM
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I'm looking for to VSL's Synchron Steinway D. While VSL pianos are not without their problems, they are the only sampled pianos that feel alive to me. Pianoteq can feel great too, but it has a long way to go in terms of sound.

I don't know when VSL's Steinway will be released, and so far it has only been hinted at, but they did say they will be releasing more Synchron pianos. They have a Steinway D and an Imperial as well as the CFX which they have recently sampled.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749655
07/06/18 04:36 AM
07/06/18 04:36 AM
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I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, even surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749695
07/06/18 08:51 AM
07/06/18 08:51 AM
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Maybe the HZP? I haven't tried it but looks good

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/hans-zimmer-piano/

(422 gb ssd required !!!)

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749728
07/06/18 10:59 AM
07/06/18 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc


Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


Nice improvisation smile

I've always wanted to purchase Ivory II American Concert D to compare it to the Galaxy Pianos i have. Is ivory still iLok only?

Last edited by Jay017; 07/06/18 10:59 AM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749736
07/06/18 11:14 AM
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No : the iLok key is optional since the Ivory 2.5 player. See https://synthogy.com/index.php/products/software-products/ivory-2-american-concert-d

If you still have the 2.0 player, go here to download it : https://synthogy.com/index.php/support/updates (click on the PC or the Mac depending of your configuration).

(Note : I prefer to see my licences on a dongle. I suppose I have more risk of having a PC out of order than a dongle... and iLok can exchange a dongle and recover their activations after readind its serial number).

Last edited by Frédéric L; 07/06/18 11:19 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: -Jay-] #2749771
07/06/18 01:06 PM
07/06/18 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay017
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc


Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


Nice improvisation smile

I've always wanted to purchase Ivory II American Concert D to compare it to the Galaxy Pianos i have. Is ivory still iLok only?

Thanks Jay. Yes as Frédéric L said, with the 2.5 update you don't need a key anymore, you ilok account will sync to the machine id now.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749780
07/06/18 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.

Last edited by pold; 07/06/18 01:56 PM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pold] #2749782
07/06/18 02:11 PM
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tdwctdwc Offline
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.


Thank you very much pold. If you’re talking about the tracks featured in my page’s “Spotlight’, that’s the Ravenscroft 275 ( audience perspective).

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pold] #2749786
07/06/18 02:21 PM
07/06/18 02:21 PM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.


tdwctdwc, nice to hear another lover of Ivory American D, and nice playing, it is still amongst one of my favourites,but I don't nearly own as many VST as some here. I use it more than CFX lite, which get so much praise. For me, as an allround package it feels and plays well for me, but I am not at the level of tdwctdwc.

These days, ACD doesn't get much mention anymore, but I am still very happy with it. The build in controls for shimmer and reverb are good too, though I use Valhalla room, the simpler ones in Ivory do the job fine too at a more basic level. One of the down sides for some perhaps, you don't get different mic perspectives, just the one. The lack of pedal down samples may bother some, but in turn, because of the modeling engine Ivory uses for that, it gives a very natural feel to partial pedal inputs as well I find.

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 07/06/18 02:22 PM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
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My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: Alexander Borro] #2749787
07/06/18 02:33 PM
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Thank You Alexander. I agree with you. I think the Ivory engine is very well thought of and programmed. It's also very responsive to the slightest tweaks, you will be very surprised with the results.

For example: Choose a different soundboard (medium resonant per say) and turn down the sustain resonance knob a bit instead of leaving it at default. Big difference.

Or turn up the sympathetic resonance around 4 db, the piano comes alive.

I also love that they let you choose at which velocity the silent key starts.

Very well thought of engine.

I'll put it this way: If Ivory is good enough for Chick Corea then it's good enough for me!

(Starting to sound like an Ivory salesman now lol)

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2749834
07/06/18 06:20 PM
07/06/18 06:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 155
P
pold Offline
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pold  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.


Thank you very much pold. If you’re talking about the tracks featured in my page’s “Spotlight’, that’s the Ravenscroft 275 ( audience perspective).


I was talking about tracks like "Tell me why" and "Forever", was it the Ravenscroft VST? It sounds huge, but maybe it's just the first impression only because the volume is louder than the Ivory.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pold] #2749838
07/06/18 06:38 PM
07/06/18 06:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 122
T
tdwctdwc Offline
Full Member
tdwctdwc  Offline
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T
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I also think you should seriously consider Ivory II American Concert D. I'm so glad i didn't delete it from my SSD like i did with the rest of my piano libraries.

I re-visited it yesterday and played a little improv on it. I have to say that the dynamic range and response is bar none, eve
n surpassing the playbality of Garritan CFX.

Sound wise, i've always had a beef with it for being a little pale, "silver" sounding and muddy but yesterday i finally found a trick for that. Turned out all i had to do was lower the volume of the "Key noise" in the settings. Somehow it was introducing woody artifacts to the sound that took away from the clarity.

This piano in my opinion is the best recording-ready Steinway sound on the market. It just sounds like a clean recorded Steinway should sound. It's also nowhere near thin-sounding like the Garritan CFX. It's fuller in my opinion.

I knew there was a reason why i didn't delete it because there's something special about it and the key was to find the sweet spot in the settings.

Here's the little jam i did last night with my new settings: https://soundcloud.com/rabih-rihana/ivory-ii-american-concert-d


It was a joy to listen to, you are very talented smile
Did you use a real acoustic in the previous tracks? They sound a bit bigger than the Ivory.


Thank you very much pold. If you’re talking about the tracks featured in my page’s “Spotlight’, that’s the Ravenscroft 275 ( audience perspective).


I was talking about tracks like "Tell me why" and "Forever", was it the Ravenscroft VST? It sounds huge, but maybe it's just the first impression only because the volume is louder than the Ivory.

Yes that's the Ravenscroft. But those tracks were mastered while the Ivory jam i posted was completely raw, didn't even touch the volume (left it at 0 with no clipping).

You're not the first who compliment me on that Ravenscroft sound. I guess that mic combination works well (Player + Side mics + stereo image switched to Audience).

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2749898
07/07/18 01:29 AM
07/07/18 01:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46
Antwerp
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lvercaut Offline OP
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lvercaut  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46
Antwerp
Thanks everyone, i gonna try American D one more time.

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