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I find that I'd rather have like many people more acoustic piano sounds and editing capabilities (and a Rhodes) vs. some of the other misc. sounds that I never use. I wonder if the P-255 price will drop due to the arrival of the P-515. The spread is only $200 it seems right now. However, the P-255 is still slightly more portable than the P-515. The 515 would be a good companion to my ES8


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Originally Posted by Doug M.


Mentioning that the RHIII action on the ES8 was too bouncy (ref. Kougeru in another thread)---presumably referring to how quickly the action returns from bottoming out after you lift your finger---is again probably a positive thing if you wish to play more like an acoustic; however, I can appreciate that ones perception of an action comes from what you're comfortable with, not necessarily what is closest to a 'perfect' acoustic piano action. When you take style of playing into account---being used to or happy with the action because it allows you facility to play what you want, how you like from a technical perspective---one could argue that the best action is your favoured one (assuming you've tried them all).


Didn't expect to be referenced here. I'm really enjoying your posts. But I have to add that I was comparing that to acoustic baby grands in the same room. Yamaha and Kawai grands. Exact models I do not remember but their prices were $15,000 up to $50,000. A fairly wide range. Of course, real piano actions differ as well so it isn't a really exact "science" at all. I found the RHIII to have a bit more bounce than any of the real actions I tried. I don't know the technical reasons for that, but that's how it was. It wasn't world-ending and I would've loved to own one of those pianos, but I just found it to be lesser to my ideal than the PHA-50 was. I do 100% agree with the Grand Feel II being the closest to perfection on a non-hybrid action.

I went to a different store today to see how the NWX felt. Considering it use to be limited for much more expensive models, I really expected a largely noticeable improvement compared to the GH3 action.. I didn't get that feeling. I'm not sure if it felt better to me than the PHA-50 on the RD-2000 that I've been eyeing for the last few weeks. I thought this would be an easy decision for me due to the low $1500 but the speakers don't look like they'll be very good and if the action isn't blowing my mind, I might have to spend more time with the RD-2000 - I really like all the features it has and what not. Overall my main goal is to get better at piano - classical and jazz. I figured a cabinet style with pedals that don't slide around would a large enough benefit to offset the lack of features when compared to the stage piano (and portability) but after trying the NWX on the CLP-465 I'm not so sure anymore. I'm definitely waiting unti l can actually hear the P-515 in person, but if the speakers are lackluster enough that I'd have to buy external monitors, that removes one of the biggest benefits I see in pianos like this.

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Originally Posted by Kougeru
Originally Posted by Doug M.


Mentioning that the RHIII action on the ES8 was too bouncy (ref. Kougeru in another thread)---presumably referring to how quickly the action returns from bottoming out after you lift your finger---is again probably a positive thing if you wish to play more like an acoustic; however, I can appreciate that ones perception of an action comes from what you're comfortable with, not necessarily what is closest to a 'perfect' acoustic piano action. When you take style of playing into account---being used to or happy with the action because it allows you facility to play what you want, how you like from a technical perspective---one could argue that the best action is your favoured one (assuming you've tried them all).


Didn't expect to be referenced here. I'm really enjoying your posts. But I have to add that I was comparing that to acoustic baby grands in the same room. Yamaha and Kawai grands. Exact models I do not remember but their prices were $15,000 up to $50,000. A fairly wide range. Of course, real piano actions differ as well so it isn't a really exact "science" at all. I found the RHIII to have a bit more bounce than any of the real actions I tried. I don't know the technical reasons for that, but that's how it was. It wasn't world-ending and I would've loved to own one of those pianos, but I just found it to be lesser to my ideal than the PHA-50 was. I do 100% agree with the Grand Feel II being the closest to perfection on a non-hybrid action.

I went to a different store today to see how the NWX felt. Considering it use to be limited for much more expensive models, I really expected a largely noticeable improvement compared to the GH3 action.. I didn't get that feeling. I'm not sure if it felt better to me than the PHA-50 on the RD-2000 that I've been eyeing for the last few weeks. I thought this would be an easy decision for me due to the low $1500 but the speakers don't look like they'll be very good and if the action isn't blowing my mind, I might have to spend more time with the RD-2000 - I really like all the features it has and what not. Overall my main goal is to get better at piano - classical and jazz. I figured a cabinet style with pedals that don't slide around would a large enough benefit to offset the lack of features when compared to the stage piano (and portability) but after trying the NWX on the CLP-465 I'm not so sure anymore. I'm definitely waiting unti l can actually hear the P-515 in person, but if the speakers are lackluster enough that I'd have to buy external monitors, that removes one of the biggest benefits I see in pianos like this.


It really helped me to play both the acoustic grands and all the various actions in one shop. I got that from Dawsons in Leeds and more or less came to the conclusion that the Grand Feel II was top, but the Grand Feel 1 was great, as was the PHA50. The RM3 grand II action on the CA17 was also very nice. The same action is on the Kawai VPC1: the virtual piano controller you get if you want to use only VSTi pianos (virtual studio technology instruments) like Pianoteq, Garritan CfX, Ivory II, Ravenscroft etc.


Using evaluation technique for helping to shortlist pianos.

What I think is that you should buy a piano that fit's your major objectives.
For me, I wanted something that I could use live. I got good deal on a used MP7.
If the only goal were to work on Piano technique with no aspirations for performing, I'd probably go for an instrument without loads of functions.

Piano attributes

Now, given that, there are a number of useful factors to consider
1) Action
2) Sound quality
3) Amplification
4) Pedals
5) Portability
6) Aethetics
7) Value for money
8) Price
9) music style you wish to play

We can call these attributes.
Mikhail Botvinnik (Chess world champion Grand Master) once said that the difference between humans and animals is man's capacity to prioritize.

With respect to evaluating these attributes: the goal is to weight them according to which are most important to you.
Then, you go test some instruments, and you rank them for the attributes out of ten.
Then you multiple the score out of ten for each attribute by the weighting factor, and add up the total score for the piano.

Weighting attributes

E.g., the weighting / evalution
1) Action 5
2) Sound quality 4
3) Amplification 3
4) Pedals (triple) 4
5) Portability 2
6) Aethetics 1
7) Value for money 6
8) Price (less than or equal to X) 6
9) music style you wish to play 4

So here, the maximum weighting is a 6 (6 being vital to have, 1 being not too bothered).
In my example ranking, I'm going to be using headphones mostly, so amplification gets a 3. I'm not using the piano for furniture, so aesthetics gets a 1. I'm not needing a new instrument, and my budget is limited to £1000, so value for money is a 6 as is price. I want to play funk, jazz, blues, rag, gospel, and some classical. I'm not a Bach fan. Ergo I need an instrument that's fitting my style, but it's not vital. I'm keeping the piano at home, not going to move soon.

So I compare these candidates:

Kawai CA17 new £1,510.00
Kawai ES8 new £1,200
Roland FP90 new £1300
Kawai VPC1 new £1,100
Yamaha P515 new 1,200

Now, all of these are out of price range, so I need to go to the used market for getting the action quality I need.


Scoring attributes

I get these deals and I score them out of 10 for the attributes (all scores arbitrarily arrived at for the purpose of example):

Kawai CA17 new £900 [1 = 7; 2=7, 3=6, 4=10, 5=2, 6=9, 7=8, 8=8, 9 = 6]
Kawai ES8 new £800 [1=6, 2=7, 3=5, 4=10, 5=8, 6=6, 7=8, 8=9, 9=6]
Roland FP90 used £1000 [1=8, 2=9, 3=6, 4=10, 5=8, 6=6, 7=8, 8=7, 9=8]
Kawai VPC1 used £600 [1=7, 2=9, 3=0, 4=10, 5=10, 6=8, 7=10, 8=10, 9=10]
Kawai MP11 used £1200 [1=9, 2=7, 3=0, 4=10, 5=8, 6=6, 7=9, 8=2, 9=6]
Yamaha P515 new 1,200 [1=4, 2=6, 3=5, 4=10, 5=8, 6=6, 7=3, 8=2, 9=5]


Evaluating the piano by weighting and attribute score (weighting * attribute score)

Now I calculate the total scores by multiplying the weighting factor by the attribute score and adding these values. As all models have the triple pedal, I remove that attribute.

Kawai CA17 new £900 [1 = 35; 2=28, 3=18, 5=10, 6=9, 7=48, 8=48, 9 = 24] Total = 220
Kawai ES8 new £800 [1=30, 2=28, 3=15, 5=16, 6=6, 7=48, 8=54, 9=24] Total = 221
Roland FP90 used £1000 [1=40, 2=36, 3=18, 5=16, 6=6, 7=48, 8=42, 9=32] Total = 238
Kawai VPC1 used £600 [1=35, 2=36, 3=0, 5=20, 6=8, 7=60, 8=60, 9=40] Total = 259
Kawai MP11 used £1200 [1=45, 2=28, 3=0, 5=16, 6=6, 7=54, 8=12, 9=24] Total = 185
Yamaha P515 new 1,200 [1=20, 2=24, 3=15, 5=16, 6=6, 7=18, 8=12, 9=20] Total = 131


Deciding shortlist and testing

So, from this analysis, I've got two top candidates: the VPC1 and the FP90. Not far off is the ES8 and CA17.
So I have to decide now whether my budget gets bigger or I go with my analysis.

What I might do then is extensively test the instruments in the top 3 at the store, and make a choice based upon the score and my gut feeling. In this conjoint analysis, it's pretty clear that the VPC1 fits my needs best as I can get the sound sources I want, and it has the best overall scores for my evaluation of what counts for me.
Of course, for the VPC1, I'd need to buy nice headphones and I'd need to own a computer for this to be a viable option for me.


So, maybe even if you don't want to go to such trouble, it might have helped you thinks about what you value in a digital piano, and given you some sense of how you might come to a shortlist of candidate pianos.


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This is more or less stuff from 5 years ago. The specs resemble those of the CLP-585. Nothing exceptional unless one values the feature “portable”. Unless one wants to, has to or needs to lug around this 22kg monster, one is much better off with a 585 due to the much better amplification and much better design and looks.

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Originally Posted by TrollToddington
This is more or less stuff from 5 years ago. The specs resemble those of the CLP-585. Nothing exceptional unless one values the feature “portable”. Unless one wants to, has to or needs to lug around this 22kg monster, one is much better off with a 585 due to the much better amplification and much better design and looks.


The CLP 585 is obsolete. It has been replaced by the CLP 685 - which sells in the UK for over £3000. The likely selling price of the P515 will be around £1250. And it's portable. The P515 is described as more or less a portable CLP 645 (which retails for a minimum of about £1800). I don't know what your point is to be honest...unless you are troll by name and troll by nature?

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Wow! £1250 for a P515? That's $1650 USD!

Isn't that the one with GHS action? That price is an insult.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Wow! £1250 for a P515? That's $1650 USD!

Isn't that the one with GHS action? That price is an insult.


it’s the new yamaha p515 this thread is about...
natural wood x action with usa price of $1,499


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by TrollToddington
This is more or less stuff from 5 years ago. The specs resemble those of the CLP-585. Nothing exceptional unless one values the feature “portable”. Unless one wants to, has to or needs to lug around this 22kg monster, one is much better off with a 585 due to the much better amplification and much better design and looks.


The CLP 585 is obsolete. It has been replaced by the CLP 685 - which sells in the UK for over £3000. The likely selling price of the P515 will be around £1250. And it's portable. The P515 is described as more or less a portable CLP 645 (which retails for a minimum of about £1800). I don't know what your point is to be honest...unless you are troll by name and troll by nature?
You are right the 585 is obsolete. Just to recall the facts - Natural Wood X was introduced with the 585 and it had tre XG voices. I do not understand why you mentioned the 685 as it has a different keyboard. The 515 is basically a portable 585 - that was my point. 5 year old technology in a plastic shell.

It’s my turn to say I do not understand your point. You compare the price of portable vs non-portable pianos. Apples and oranges. If you needed a portable you wouldn’t get a 685 or a 645.

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Originally Posted by TrollToddington
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by TrollToddington
This is more or less stuff from 5 years ago. The specs resemble those of the CLP-585. Nothing exceptional unless one values the feature “portable”. Unless one wants to, has to or needs to lug around this 22kg monster, one is much better off with a 585 due to the much better amplification and much better design and looks.


The CLP 585 is obsolete. It has been replaced by the CLP 685 - which sells in the UK for over £3000. The likely selling price of the P515 will be around £1250. And it's portable. The P515 is described as more or less a portable CLP 645 (which retails for a minimum of about £1800). I don't know what your point is to be honest...unless you are troll by name and troll by nature?
You are right the 585 is obsolete. Just to recall the facts - Natural Wood X was introduced with the 585 and it had tre XG voices. I do not understand why you mentioned the 685 as it has a different keyboard. The 515 is basically a portable 585 - that was my point. 5 year old technology in a plastic shell.

It’s my turn to say I do not understand your point. You compare the price of portable vs non-portable pianos. Apples and oranges. If you needed a portable you wouldn’t get a 685 or a 645.


Well, you say someone would be much better off with a CLP 585 - a piano that is no longer available so your point was academic. That's why I pointed out that the new equivalent of the piano you were recommending is the CLP 685. I pointed out that the new P515 is basically a CLP 645 because that's what major retailers and Yamaha's reps are saying, so it's relevant to this thread.

The thread is about the P515, a portable piano at an affordable price. You point out that one would be better off with an unavailable previous generation top of the range non-portable console piano, which sold for two-and-a-half times the price. You pointed out the much better amplification of the console type. Yes. Obviously. But this is about a portable piano. That is the compromise. Always has been, always will be, regardless of which manufacturer we are talking about. The P515 will be judged on its effectiveness in the role of portable piano. It will compared with others of that type. Not 100kg consoles.

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Originally Posted by TrollToddington
This is more or less stuff from 5 years ago. The specs resemble those of the CLP-585. Nothing exceptional unless one values the feature “portable”. Unless one wants to, has to or needs to lug around this 22kg monster, one is much better off with a 585 due to the much better amplification and much better design and looks.

Originally Posted by TrollToddington

It’s my turn to say I do not understand your point. You compare the price of portable vs non-portable pianos. Apples and oranges. If you needed a portable you wouldn’t get a 685 or a 645.


Now it's my turn to be confused. You were the one who poured cold water on the new P515 by saying it was similar in some respects to the older and more expensive console piano, the CLP585.

Then you claim to be confused when similarities with the P515 and the current console CLP 645 are mentioned. Apples and oranges, you say.

We'll soon be running out of fruits at this rate.


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Does anyone know, how soon Yamaha P515 be in stores , to try\buy, in U.S.A?


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Nice responses, Essbrace and Toddy!

In fact, the P-515 adds 480 XG voices to the CLP-645 specification. I, for one, need the additional voices as I plan to use MIDI files that require access to supporting orchestral instruments when I play the lead piano voice. If one is fine with a non-console piano with lower amplification, the P-515 looks like a great deal.

Jitin, online retailers say they will start shipping in September, so I assume that is when local stores will get the P-515 as well.

Yamaha, the P-515 manual does not say that the 50 Classics score book for the built-in music is an included item, as it is on the Clavinovas. Please include it, or make it available to registered P-515 owners, to allow them to fully enjoy the instrument without buying an iPad. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by TrollToddington
Just to recall the facts - Natural Wood X was introduced with the 585 and it had tre XG voices. I do not understand why you mentioned the 685 as it has a different keyboard. The 515 is basically a portable 585 - that was my point. 5 year old technology in a plastic shell.


One detail worth remembering, since we're focusing so much on whether two things have the "same keyboard action."

The CLP-585 action is called NWX just as the CLP-545, CLP-645 and P-515's are, but not all NWX are created equal. Specifically, the 585's NWX has:

- 88-key linear graded weights; and
- key counterweights

which are missing from any other NWX action on the market (I think the 575 has the linear grading but not the counterweights?).

I haven't seen what the NWX in the P-515 is, but my guess is it's not the high-end one from the CLP-585.


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Hello, rare poster here! One question I have is regards this versus its closest cousin - the CLP 645. When you add in the price of the bespoke stand and pedals (which I think the P515 would require even though it is 'portable') it's not that far away from the 645.

Do people think the extra few hundred pounds might be worth it for the better speaker system in the 645? For context, the piano would be played mainly at home and I would only really be playing piano - not that interested in the other voices. I'm a classical pianist at about Liebstraum level!

Against that I'm not very interested in the CLP645 console as a 'piece of furniture'. I find them a bit cheesy in that regard. The only benefit to me would be the better speakers in the cabinet. The sleekness of the 515 appeals here but I wouldn't trade this for the better speakers of the 645 if they were really that much better.

In fact I do wonder if, once the stand / pedals is added to the 515, it would take up that much less space than the 645?

Your thoughts appreciated..

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The price difference in the US between the P-515 (with stand and pedals) and the CLP-645 is significantly more than the equivalent of a "few hundred pounds". So it is an easier decision for us than for those in the UK.

In addition to larger speakers (16cm+8cm x2 vs. 12x8cm+2.5cm x2), amplification is greater on the CLP-645 (50W vs 40W). It has a sliding cover to keep the keys clean and dust free. And it has a much larger library of built-in music, with 303 pieces by Beyer, Burgmuller, Czerny and Hanon, in addition to the 50 Classics built in to both instruments.

They should be fairly close in length, but the CLP-645 will be taller and wider. Another difference just occurred to me -- the CLP-645's music stand will be at the correct height, not down close to key level as on the P-515.

You might want to go with the CLP-645 based on your criteria and price difference as stated. Those of us who value the additional XG voices and larger price difference in the US may choose otherwise.


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Originally Posted by sh1
Against that I'm not very interested in the CLP645 console as a 'piece of furniture'. I find them a bit cheesy in that regard.

Same here, these consoles need a proper redesign.


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Yes, the height of the stand is a definite plus for the 645. Thanks Lotus.

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I guess the other variable here is that sometimes the console pianos can sound a little 'boxy' by the nature of their construction - there might be something about the upwards-facing speakers of the P515 that give them more clarity!

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Sh ... I was about to add just that. When I bought my Yamaha DGX-660 (an ensemble slab), I felt that it had a clarity of sound lacking in comparable Yamaha YDP console pianos.

Perhaps not a fair comparison, since the DGX has 4 speakers pointing upwards and YDPs have 2 speakers enclosed in a cabinet and pointing downwards -- but the DGX was less expensive, too! Just an example of how slabs often offer better value than consoles.

I do find the DGX's music stand rather low and far, but have got used to it. It is 7 cm (almost 3") wider than the P-515, so the latter's music stand should be a bit closer. But the CLP-645 will be the best in this regard.

I agree with you on styling, and find the DGX's sleek look and integrated stand attractive in its own modern way, as should the P-515 be with its stand and pedals.

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that is a good point, but I think the biggest thing is , if you have to get it maintained, for repair, which after 5 years , post warranty , they all require key maintenance at some point, for techs to come to your house, is lot of money compared to just taking it to the shop (5 times the cost)

and also, if something breaks like the pedal, you cannot replace it after market, you need original parts...:/


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