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"Why do you think is the case? Something different about the touch?"

Yes. I'm like the princess and the pea. I bought the Estonia because I liked the lightness of the touch. Then at some point I didn't and I had my technician adjust it to be lighter [long story here]. I don't know if the Baldwin is lighter, or the throw of the hammers is shorter, or sometimes I think there is some sort of "leverage" or gravity thing going on (hammers going horizontal vs vertical) but I can play that fast passage much easier on the Baldwin.

I've also come to think of pianos so full of memory that you come to them differently. Having this Baldwin back has a whole other emotional "thing" for me. Hard to explain. But even after having the Estonia for 10 years, I feel less intimidated by the Baldwin. Maybe because I revere the Estonia so much?

"While I definitely prefer the sound of modern pianos, I'm not sure one can say they have more nuance. Maybe this depends on what means by that word."

I don't know what other word to use.

The 1 difference that the piano performer / teacher Robert Estrin talked about in his online video are "trills". Otherwise grand pianos have a much bigger volume of sound meant for a big room or a concert hall. You may also find the sustain foot pedals more responsive on a grand piano because you have more sound to begin with.
Unless you are playing fast trills a lot, most who play at an intermediate level won't notice much of a difference. The reason has to do with the hammers striking the strings vertically in a concert grand. When you play trills, you can get a faster response because the hammers get pulled by the weight of gravity and will hit a piano string a fraction of a faster after a key is pressed. In an upright, the hammers strike the strings horizontally giving a slower action. A fraction of a second may not be a big deal but when playing fast trills, you can alternate between notes more times with a grand piano.

ha! i was just saying the opposite in my comment before yours. technically speaking, on a grand, gravity works with you when the hammers pull away from the strings, but against you when you want them to hit the keys. on an upright, that is even, or more even. but it's an impossible thing to compare, piano to piano. and the geometry and science of it doesn't mean that equates to the feeling of it.

i think it probably more depends on the action of the grand. no? there are heavy grands and light grands.

The action of gravity is on the way down... after the note is struck. Trills are easier on a grand because of the repetition mechanism that is present on grands but not generally on verticals.

[/quote]The action of gravity is on the way down... after the note is struck. Trills are easier on a grand because of the repetition mechanism that is present on grands but not generally on verticals.
[/quote]

Where is that "repetition mechanism" located on a grand piano?

The action of gravity is on the way down... after the note is struck. Trills are easier on a grand because of the repetition mechanism that is present on grands but not generally on verticals.
[/quote]

Where is that "repetition mechanism" located on a grand piano? [/quote]
http://www.piano.christophersmit.com/repetitionMech.html

I do think it's important to have a grand piano. You will develop better touch and tone. Of course there's the cost and space factor. I had an upright for almost 9 years before finally getting a grand. I simply didn't have space in a very small apartment for even a baby grand. Is it necessary? No. One can also learn on a good digital and pass ABRSM, etc., but at some point, you will notice that you will want the action and sound only an acoustic grand can produce.

Not apropos of anything.....well maybe it is. Or maybe all it means is that at age 15 I didn't know anything. Not that it's necessarily different now.

We always had a piano when I was growing up. It was an upright, not a real good one but OK (the brand was Starr). But after a while I guess it started breaking down -- keys started breaking.

I asked for a new piano, and for a while around that time we went through a hard financial time so it wasn't possible. But my folks promised that when possible, they'd get a new piano, and it would be a grand.

I loved the Sohmer brand because that was the piano in my school's auditorium and I thought it was wonderful. (I did have the chance to play on it many times.) So, when the time came, we went to the Sohmer factory, which wasn't far from where we lived, for the long-awaited happy moment to pick out a grand piano.

I tried several and liked them all pretty much. But then I saw an upright that was different from any I'd seen before -- a bit taller. I tried it, and it blew me away. At that time I didn't know about the theoretical and structural advantages and differences between grands and uprights, just that grands were "better," and of course that they looked a lot cooler. But the main thing I knew was just how I thought a piano felt and sounded.

I liked that upright even more than the grands. After many months of pining after a new piano and being so thrilled that it would even be a grand, I picked the upright.

I still remember the prices of those pianos. (These numbers might make you sick when you consider them in comparison to now.)
The grands were $1900. The upright was $800.
Besides having gotten a piano I loved, I felt very virtuous for having saved us $1100.

But the difference between the tone and response of a digital and an acoustic are much greater than the difference between an upright and a grand acoustic.

Yes, though some like the Yamaha N series have a better action than most uprights, and that's important. My point was that I don't think a good digital or an upright will impair anyone from learning, but that an acoustic grand will be better. I read Mark's post, and I have heard of others finding a special upright that spoke to them, but I never did. Sound wise, yes, but the action just never felt as good - how could it?

@Mark_C I liked the "studio" Sohmer uprights, and knew somebody who taught on one. Techs didn't like the transition from wound bass to tricords, though.

Mark - What happened to the family Sohmer? Did your folks eventually sell it after you graduated from college...or did they hang on to it ?

Yes! -- that's exactly what it was called!

Here's an image I found online. I think it's exactly like what I had:




It stayed in my parents' apartment for over 20 years after that, till the early '90's, when they moved from Manhattan to New York City's southern-most borough (Florida).
I assume that at that time it was included with whatever they did with the rest of the furniture and stuff that they weren't taking along, which was most, probably sold to some antique dealer.
Or junk shop.

It was still in very good shape.

About this thing I said before:


It's been said many times on here that a very good upright can be better than a small grand. I don't think I've found that to be the case for me any time lately (provided that we're talking about decent grands), but maybe that did arguably apply for those Sohmers that I tried. I don't have any idea what size those grands were, except that I think it's very likely that they were whatever was the smallest grand that Sohmer made at that time, so it might have been about 5' or barely over.

BTW my first grand was a Steinway S, which was just 5'1", and which I liked better than any upright I've ever had a chance to play. I don't know that I'd feel the same about all Steinway S's.

It's been said, but in terms of sound, not touch. I don't see how an upright's action can ever be better than a grand's. I know some manufacturers have tried different things, but even the most basic grand has a better action by default.

I had bought a Yamaha YUS 5 about 3 years ago. At the same time in the store there was a baby grand for 10,000. The store owner referred to that as a piece of furniture. My tuner who also refurbishes pianos told me to get that quality I would need to spend about 45,000 on a baby grand. He said one difference you will notice in a baby grand versus an the upright is the soft pedal, uprights still hit all 3 strings and baby grands (I forgot exactly what he said) hits it was one or two strings so there is a notable difference. I am going on my 5th year of lessons. I also have a Clavinova CLP 575 and there is a big difference between an acoustic and the digital. I have noticed this the more I advance.

My instructor plays at a nursing home once a month and we play a duet together or I perform a solo. He is getting me used to playing in front of people. However, the piano is not very good. There is a recital at the school but they are all kids. The director told if she had several adults taking lessons she would have a recital for adults. She said they start but generally are gone within a year.

My teacher also has me play on different pianos at the studio and states it is important to be able to play on different instruments. My lesson is not always on the same piano. I have difficulty adjusting to different pianos. I remember one time at the nursing home the piece I played had a glissando and the keys would not slide like on my piano and I just could not get the keys to slide. My instructor has his master's in piano performance, told me he grew up playing on an old acoustic piano. The only time he played on grand pianos is when he was in college and when he plays in the reception area for major events. He does not own an acoustic, he has a stage piano he uses for gigs.

I was told in the 80’s you had to practice on a grand. Of course my mother couldn’t afford one. I have an old Hoffman at her house I learned to play on, and it’s still there. I guess my teacher at that time was a Steinway guy and he felt your fingers would be stronger learning on a grand. He was a concert pianist so I am sure that’s why. Presently I practice on a grand in the nursing school next to the research building I work in. Here at the university it’s always kept in good condition and a tech services it regularly. Some things are harder because both of my parents have uprights so some weeks I practice on all three pianos, I would say a beginner get consistent as possible. If you have experience you can kind of adjust to a piano action. Even then some guys can’t do it.