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Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746135
06/21/18 04:43 PM
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Hi! I would also know the results you get with the JBL LSR305 and your RCA/TS cables. I tested connecting the CA98 to an external amp and speakers and get very low line-out volume when using unbalanced RCA/TS cables.

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Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746233
06/22/18 02:15 AM
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ArtlessArt Offline OP
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The cables and adapters all arrived this week. So I was able to play around with it for a bit. I tried the TS cables, the RCA>TS adapter, and lastly TRS. They all yield very low volumes from the line outs, with TRS being the lowest.

I had to put the JBL LSR305's volume knob on max & CA78 volume to around 3/4 of the way in order to achieve a decent playing volume. But there is this annoying high pitch wire sound coming from the right speakers (it's not the regular hiss you get from JBL 305's), and it only happens when I connect to the CA78's R line-out.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746247
06/22/18 04:50 AM
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The high pitch could be a ground loop. You may try powering the speakers from a different outlet. Also, for debugging this, you can try switching the power cables between the speakers and see if the noise changes to the other speaker and changing the sig al between the speakers and see if the noise changes.
Lastly, I recommend having the volume of the Dp se to max and using the speaker at slightly lower volume - you'll amplify the interference noises less this way.

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746253
06/22/18 05:29 AM
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ArtlessArt Offline OP
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Thanks mcoll.

It's definitely the right line out jack that's causing this. I've done some debugging; switching power cables, switching TS cables, and even switched the right speaker for the left.

It's always the right side that emanates the high pitch wiry sound. It's subtle and comes on for a few seconds, then goes away for a few seconds, then comes on for a few seconds again, in this cycle. Increasing the dp volume also increases the wiry sound, as the dp volume affects line out volume.

Oh and forgot to mention the jbl305's doesnt make the wiry noise when connected to pianoteq.

I dont understand why the line outs don't have a dedicated volume control.

Last edited by ArtlessArt; 06/22/18 05:30 AM.

Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
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Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746264
06/22/18 05:57 AM
06/22/18 05:57 AM
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Most devices don't have a volume control for line-outs. That control is the job of the downstream equipment.
The source should maintain full output level. The downstream device can then take control.
Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
I dont understand why the line outs don't have a dedicated volume control.

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746267
06/22/18 06:04 AM
06/22/18 06:04 AM
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As for the right-channel squeal ... Do you get that squeal when playing through the speakers? Do you hear it when using headphones?
If so, that's a general piano fault.
If not, then the fault is specific to the line output.

Mcoll suggests that this could be a ground-loop effect. To troubleshoot this ...

You could connect an oscilloscope to the errant line output. You should see a flat line when there's no intended piano audio. But any squeal would be evident on the scope.

But I'm guessing you don't have access to a scope ...

So ... Do you have a battery-operated headphone amp? Or a battery-operated boom-box (or similar portable audio device) with a line input jack?

If so, send the piano's "faulty" line out to that device. There can be no ground loop because the downstream item is battery-operated.
If there's still a squeal then that points to a fault in the piano.
If not, then the ground-loop diagnosis holds true.

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746402
06/22/18 06:03 PM
06/22/18 06:03 PM
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Two off-the-wall suggestions:

a) If you're using a laptop computer, _unplug the power supply_ (and run on battery power):

. . . Does the right-channel whine disappear?

b) USB connections sometimes give a rough-sounding, high-pitched interference. Try disconnecting any USB connections, and see if the whine disappears.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: Charles Cohen] #2746444
06/23/18 12:04 AM
06/23/18 12:04 AM
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ArtlessArt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
As for the right-channel squeal ... Do you get that squeal when playing through the speakers? Do you hear it when using headphones?
If so, that's a general piano fault.
If not, then the fault is specific to the line output.


There is no squeal when speakers are connected to another source, i.e. the audio interface of the laptop to run Pianoteq. Been running this setup for more than a year.

No squeal with headphones either.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Two off-the-wall suggestions:

a) If you're using a laptop computer, _unplug the power supply_ (and run on battery power):

. . . Does the right-channel whine disappear?

b) USB connections sometimes give a rough-sounding, high-pitched interference. Try disconnecting any USB connections, and see if the whine disappears.



The high pitch wiry whine is not present when using Pianoteq, which is run on the laptop computer. It's only there when connected to the Right line-out of the CA78.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746458
06/23/18 03:09 AM
06/23/18 03:09 AM
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I think it's time for the one test you haven't done yet - if that is possible for you: Test your laptop and speakers with a different CA78.

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746462
06/23/18 04:14 AM
06/23/18 04:14 AM
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What I meant to ask was: When playing the piano standalone (not with Pianoteq, and with NO connection to the laptop), is there squeal in the speakers or headphones?
Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
There is no squeal when speakers are connected to another source, i.e. the audio interface of the laptop to run Pianoteq. Been running this setup for more than a year. No squeal with headphones either.

Anyway, the other question remains ... and is more important: Can you connect the piano line out to a battery-operated audio device?

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2746463
06/23/18 04:16 AM
06/23/18 04:16 AM
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I think MacMacMac suggested above not that you use the monitors connected to the laptop, but that you take the line out from the piano and input it in the line in of the laptop, while on battery, and recording the piano with the laptop to see if the pitch sound is present that way as well, or only when you output through the monitors. That way you'd exclude it being a ground loop problem and you'd be certain that the piano itself outputs that noise on the left channel.

Edit: Of course, this may prove to be too much hassle already and you may simply be better off playing the internal sounds through the internal speakers and using the monitors connected to the computer for VST playback.
Assuming the pitch wouldn't be there, is the sound through the monitors better and nicer sounding than the one through the internal speakers?
And, again, assuming you'd have little unwanted noise, would the volume be sufficient through the LSR305 or would you need aditional amplification?
I know they get loud enough for VST playback (realistic acoustic levels), because I've had them, but is the CA78 output volume loud enough to reach realistic levels with the internal piano sounds?

Because if the answer to the questions above is no, then you're better off using the internal speakers for the internal sounds. And I doubt more powerful monitors would be worth it, given they would also amplify the noise more.

Last edited by mcoll; 06/23/18 04:20 AM.
Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2791131
12/14/18 05:20 AM
12/14/18 05:20 AM
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Hi OP,
Have you fixed the issue?
I seem to have the same problem with my new CA-78. I Tried to use two RCA cables with TS Jack adapters to connect my monitors, but they remain silent, even when I crank up the master volume slider on the piano. I have the volume knob on the monitors in about 50%, but will try to turn it to 100% later today.
Also the internal piano speakers do not get muted when I plug in the cables into Line Out slots.

Last edited by Lepredom; 12/14/18 05:24 AM.
Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: Lepredom] #2791154
12/14/18 06:57 AM
12/14/18 06:57 AM
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I can’t help with your question to OP, but I can help with this:
Originally Posted by Lepredom
Also the internal piano speakers do not get muted when I plug in the cables into Line Out slots.

This is normal (and desired). If you want to mute the piano‘s speakers, you have to set „Local Control“ to „off“.

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: JoBert] #2791171
12/14/18 08:13 AM
12/14/18 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JoBert

This is normal (and desired). If you want to mute the piano‘s speakers, you have to set „Local Control“ to „off“.


Wait, if local control is off, what does having a line out connection do?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: Gombessa] #2791188
12/14/18 09:27 AM
12/14/18 09:27 AM
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Exactly. When local control is OFF the only active output will be the MIDI (or USB/MIDI) port. No sound from speakers. No sound through the line outputs.
Originally Posted by Gombessa
If local control is off, what does having a line out connection do?

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: ArtlessArt] #2791205
12/14/18 10:21 AM
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The only wait to mute the speakers on these DPs is to connect headphones (or an headphone jack) to the corresponding port. There is no speaker on/off option. And the only way to kind of mute the line-out is to set the master volume level to zero.

The "local control" does not mute the speakers or headphones at all. It simply disables the local processing of the events generated by the DP. With local control off, all audio fed to the DP via the line-in or bluetooth audio would still be reproduced by the speakers or headphones and sent via the line-out as well. Moreover, if the local control is off but the DP is receiving MIDI events, then the speakers/headphones + line out would reproduce the internally generated sound resulting from the MIDI input.

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: arc7urus] #2791206
12/14/18 10:33 AM
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I am following this thread with some interest because I am considering the CA78/CA98. So far I haven't seen any postings of people who have successfully connected external speakers using the line out on these models. Has anyone who owns either of these DP's successfully connected external monitors to them with satisfaction?


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Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: Gombessa] #2791212
12/14/18 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by JoBert

This is normal (and desired). If you want to mute the piano‘s speakers, you have to set „Local Control“ to „off“.


Wait, if local control is off, what does having a line out connection do?

blush
I'm claiming that my account was hacked and the evil hacker known as 4Chan wrote that nonsense!

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: oneilt130] #2791312
12/14/18 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by oneilt130
I am following this thread with some interest because I am considering the CA78/CA98. So far I haven't seen any postings of people who have successfully connected external speakers using the line out on these models. Has anyone who owns either of these DP's successfully connected external monitors to them with satisfaction?


You can use external speakers exclusively with the master volume at 100% and the internal speakers muted. But calibrating the sound to make external speakers sound as good as the internal speakers is not easy, and the overall quality will depend on your setup. On the other hand, the internal speakers are far from perfect . So, the best option would be using internal and external speakers simultaneously. But that is simply not possible due to the current design of the ca78/98. Anyway, this unnecessary limitation is probably not a major showstopper for most users.

Re: Problem connecting CA78 Line Out to Speakers [Re: JoBert] #2791313
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by JoBert

This is normal (and desired). If you want to mute the piano‘s speakers, you have to set „Local Control“ to „off“.


Wait, if local control is off, what does having a line out connection do?

blush
I'm claiming that my account was hacked and the evil hacker known as 4Chan wrote that nonsense!

;-)

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