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I like Norbert's info..probably because there no way I going to fly to vancouver BC..from PA to try out his pianos..but I do like exchange of ideas and future trends in piano making.. Bob Newbie

I don't deny that Norbert is a wealth of information. What I do see is that he is always trying to create a buzz on the pianos that he sells. The topic could be about Steinway vs Bosendorfer and his reply would be something like...don't buy a fallboard, have you tried the new Stigerman or whatever. He is like the guy at a party that just keeps giving out his business cards, enough already.

Norbert a pushy Canadian? Surely such a thing doesn't exist!

In all seriousness, whether Norbert crosses over the 'line' may be debatable - but his integrity is obvious and enthusiasm infectious. If I were fifteen hundred k further west and looking for a new piano he would be first on my list.

Thank you - a welcome encouragement for my often, perhaps sometimes somewhat 'controversial' outspokeness

By the way, today I visited another prominent and very highly regarded dealer, a dealer who may also have a "very interesting" story to tell with quite similiar content here....

However, I *won't* - and I can certainly understand any dealer's reluctance at this time to report about the substantial changes going on in the market right now - this simply for fear of being accused of *advertising* .....

By the same token, there's actually no need for us dealers to report about anything here at all: no need to report on any new models or, for that matter,any other of the many interesting developments going on in the industry right now...

After all,it could all be misconstrued as *advertsising* by anyone at any time....

Perhaps it's better to just leave things up to consumers to [slowly...] discover things "as they unfold" - including of course any new models or entirely new, significant lines of pianos coming onto market....

Scratching our head in total disbelief later, as is of course to be expected for many of us eventually down the line, could simply be one of the inevitable little side-effects and disadvantages of this *politically correct* - but otherwise ineffectual, self-imposed silence.

From a consumer's perspective - I certainly see more advantage in becoming aware of increased, and *significant* new choices in the market - this at an early stage of things.

Perhaps that's why one can catch me often enough searching on the internet these days about a certain new car becoming available only next year....

Meantime, everyone make a selection and spend their money on any piano the way they see fit

Now.

Norbert

Norbert,

It was great to visit with you yesterday.

I must say that we feel the Brodmann piano represents a remarkble development in the piano industry. There may be others but as a technician I have only been able to work on a small sampling of Chinese brands.

The Brodmann's Hybrid approach allows us to offer a legitimate and serious musical instrument a pricepoint we could not service before.

I see now why so many mid-line makers are either changing or dying out, the bar has been raised.

But more importantly it was great to hear you boogie, I had no idea!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex Hernandez:
The Brodmann's Hybrid approach{/QUOTE]

Alex, please explain what you mean by "hybrid" approach. I had the pleasure of playing a Brodmann about a month ago, and was favorably impressed.


George

Does this piano get exceptional mileage? :p

I had a chance to play a Hailun (Wendl & Lung) 122, and a baby grand today. Great bass for a piano of that size! Very nice action and bright tone too.

The only question on my mind is: how long will these pianos last?

George,

I meant that the soundboard,strings,hammers,pinblock,action are not of Chinese origin but from established reputable European manufactures.

While the rim/finish work is Chinese they do not constitute a complete instrument.

Of course it comes down to the execution of the integration of all of these components.

A bad belly person can nullify all of the benefits of superior components. The Brodmanns we have received reflect good solid judgment at the point of integration, they flat out did a good job, I too have yet to see how long they will last. I know other instruments made with similar materials have routinely outlived their original buyers.

I hope this answers the question.

I'd better not buy one of those!

Hahahaha, brilliant!

Alex:

Thank you very much for your a most cordial welcome - it was a real treat to see you again!

Alex is a very gracious and extremely knowledgable host - make sure 'Classical Grands' in Seattle is on your list when visiting the North West!!

By the way, they just sold a beautiful Bluethner grand right under my nose to a first time visitor just at the time I arrived - beautiful piano!

As everybody knows,Alex is not exactly known as a promoter of Chinese pianos - so he is of particular interest to listen to when discussing some of the new pianos coming from China today, such as Brodmann, a line of pianos they just had taken on amidst the sea of exclusively high end pianos.

web page

Not quite an Estonia, let alone Bluethner, but a fantastic "in-between" hybrid type maker, fitting in perfectly between the gap of run-of-the-mill oriental mass-produced and European handcrafted type pianos .

Interesting to see, that some of the high end dealers who were part of the ridicule against me in the past claiming that some of Chinese pianos were getting "up and coming" - now adopt these line of pianos for themselves.....

Norbert

Nearly evertime I try to "find out" things about pianos or any other items..and I scramble through the internet..I've been coming across..this tease of give a paragraph or two
but then to see the rest of the article..which always seems to have the real important info you want..they tell you you have to "subscribe" to get "the rest of the story"... (where's Paul Harvey when you need him!) Good Day!

Bob:

Point well taken, but anybody who either knows Alex or myself, would hardly assume any of this here applies to your statement.

If you,however, wish to contradict certain customers who have voiced an opinion about their own exepeirence here - it's fine by me.

Rest assured, that there is nothing here to *subscribe* or *buy*.

Should you ever come about a chance to try any of the above mentioned 'samples' - at least don't blame anybody, should you perhaps end up changing your mind a little bit afterwards as well.....

Norbert

Dear Alex Hernandez and Norbert,

Would you guys please tone down your mutual advertising of each other here?

One of you sell "Premium Steigerman" and the other the "Brodmann", and they both happen to come out from the same NingBo-HaiLun factory together with Wendl and Young -- that's nice, I get it, thank you.

-------------

Consider this a note of caution: Battles were fought and being fought to get dealers to not blatantly advertise themselves and their wares on these forums. I hope we won't go down path where mutual/reciprocal advertising of each other among dealers becomes commonplace on these forums as well.

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Another observsation:

A while ago, posts were pouring in making DongBei look like the best Chinese piano manufacturer. Now I see a new wave of posts trying to make NingBo-Hailun supplant DongBei to get Forum mindshare. Readers beware.

Axtremus:

I am speaking here only for myself:

Your admonishing and criticism is ill placed - you're no longer a moderator here....

I went to considerable [and hopefully intelligent..] lenghts above to explain that no *advertising* was ever meant here by anyone:

Are we dealers not even allowed to say anything complimetary about our own brands or announce anything new about the pianos we happen to carry?

Then please count me out on the spot and accept my gracious "good-bye" once and for all....

In addition, it is a disgrace to accuse a fine and highly respected dealer such as Alex of "Classical Grands" in Seattle of "mutual advertising" - that's about as low as anything I have ever read here for quite some time....

Rest assured that Alex neither needs me, nor would I need him, to sell from our selection of pianos.

'Classical Grands' is a showromm like few others - if you'd rather go to some small mall store when in Seattle - that's up to you.

Personally I think you are in for an apology to the man.

And one more thing:

Spreading *willfully* false or incomplete information about any piano is less than helpful and outright misleading.

Steigerman and Brodmann are most definitely *not* made by same factory....

Norbert

Norbert,

Do you not see a pattern in your posts regarding Steigerman in the last couple of weeks?

You are well respected here and I would hate to see the good advice you give undercut by any perception of self-interest regarding Steigerman.

Frankly - no.

Please note - in none of my last four posts here was the "S" word even mentioned.....

Many people here may not recall how I was ridiculed and laughed at when
I originally started to talk about Estonia pianos here many moons ago....

Similiarly, only few years back when I announced "the Chinese were coming".... I was accused of *hyping things* - something that time has clearly proven *not* to be the case.

Anybody who's shopping around today will quickly notice that many of the most respected stores in the nation, including many Steinway dealerships themselves, now also carry their very own Chinese made house brands.

Something you think they should perhaps be ashamed of??

This latest criticism appears to follow a similiar line: I am 'advertising' again.....

People who know me here for longer time, however, know better:

I simply hoped to convey a much more general message here, namely that the market is widening, giving consumers a greater choice of pianos - this now also including some type of 'higher quality', Chinese made pianos.

Go ahead and 'blame' me if you like - but damn it - just because I perhaps saw things coming early enough to secure myself and my customers the very best deal out - I won't simply fall all of a sudden all silent....

Anybody who really knows me - such as my own customers do - know that this is *exactly* what my business happens to be all about - and I am passionate about it.

I am certainly *not* run by big company interests, don't have to 'heed anybody's line and much less - join the great hype that is *really* out there all the time,often involving certain 'big name' brands' who have operated in this market for years using all kinds of spin to promote their product....

Those who see my reports and accounts here to be 'advertising' - my sincere apologies.

Needless to say, they would never buy from me anyways.....

On the other hand, those who see me more as a type of consumer advocate, perhaps more committed to those folks who wish to obtain a piano of actually finer quality than originally hoped for - and at an even better price than previously thought possible - my congratulation ahead of time.

Entirely independent of *make* chosen in each case....

Oh, there's another great one I could 'recommend' that would fit above criteria:

*Grotrian*.

Norbert

Deleted,sorry - double post!

Axtremus,

How dare you caution me sir, I have NEVER used this forum to fish for sales or promote a brand. When we liquidated our Mason,Boesendorfer,Steingraeber inventory did you see me use this forum as a billboard? Did you see me run here or have somebody else quote wholesale pricing?

Of course you did not. I was told Brodmann was made by the Parson's factory and not the one you named. I don't care, I have been in this industry since 1980 and I have never experienced anything like our Brodmann pianos in their price class. I don't think I was soliciting sales or being overly complimentary towards Norbert. Norbert paid us a very friendly and cordial visit while he was in Seattle and what you saw was two industry people being civilized towards each other.

Norbert and I have had our battles in the past and frankly it is very nice to speak with him as gentleman rather then as an adversary. We may very well argue in the future but believe me the dialogue you have witnessed has been sincere.

Where do you find the grounds to accuse me or impune my character?