2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
54 registered members (ambrozy, albydooby, Calavera, Abdol, 3am_stargazing, Carey, chateauferret, Anglagard44, Balcon, 7 invisible), 401 guests, and 420 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
HOW DO ACCIDENTALS APPLY #2745438 06/18/18 07:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 65
M
MICHAEL122 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 65
On a grand staff; I know that a given note, let's say a "G", marked as a flat {or sharp or natural} makes all G's flat for the rest of that measure
Is this still true even if they're in a different octave and still in that same measure?
Also, are all G's flat, even if they're in a different octave, on the bass clef for that same measure?
Seems odd that my experience hasn't come across this before...
Thank you, everybody, for your responses.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: HOW DO ACCIDENTALS APPLY [Re: MICHAEL122] #2745457 06/18/18 08:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 12
B
Bluejayfeather Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 12
Not 100% sure, but I'm thinking that the accidental has to be stated in each octave. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: HOW DO ACCIDENTALS APPLY [Re: MICHAEL122] #2745461 06/18/18 09:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,173
rocket88 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,173
An accidental applies to one note and one note only: The exact note before which the accidental is marked. And it lasts until the end bar line of the measure in which it occurs.

Furthermore, it continues in that measure for any additional notes on that same space or line unless it is changed by another accidental on that exact note in that same measure.

For example, if a note is sharped, it stays sharped for that measure unless that note is made natural by a natural sign further on, again in that measure only.

Accidentals do not apply to any other note anywhere else, be it the same note, such as a G that is an octave apart, or a G on a different staff. If the composer wants any other Gs changed, each one needs its own accidental.

And, all accidentals cancel out and thus are of no effect in the next measure. The end bar line of the measure in which they occur "kills
them.

Also, all natural sign notes are white notes.

Hope this helps.


Piano teacher.
Re: HOW DO ACCIDENTALS APPLY [Re: rocket88] #2745468 06/18/18 09:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,173
rocket88 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,173
I made a mistake in the previous post, here is the correction:

Originally Posted by rocket88
An accidental applies to one note and one note only: The exact note after which the accidental is marked. And it lasts until the end bar line of the measure in which it occurs.


Accidentals occur before notes, not after. Probably dyslexia laugh


Piano teacher.
Re: HOW DO ACCIDENTALS APPLY [Re: MICHAEL122] #2745515 06/19/18 12:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 65
M
MICHAEL122 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 65
Thank you for clearing this up, rocket88.

Re: HOW DO ACCIDENTALS APPLY [Re: MICHAEL122] #2745548 06/19/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,334
T
TimR Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,334
That is the rule, but it is often "honored in the breach."

Yes, an accidental applies only to the octave it is assigned to, but it commonly occurs in the music that it is obviously required in a different octave.

Then there is the bar line problem. Suppose an accidental is on a note tied to another note across the barline. Obviously the tied note retains the accidental. What about subsequent notes in that measure? In my opinion the accidental should cancel. But in my experience the editor follows that convention about 50% of the time. Last night playing in an ensemble there were numerous examples where the accidental applied in the entire following measure after a tie, but I've seen just as many where it doesn't.


gotta go practice

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
(ad)
Pianoforall
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
First post, full story and buying a Kawai CA48
by ECBetancor - 04/01/20 01:55 PM
MIDI Controller + Piano software? Help.
by Pil3up - 04/01/20 12:55 PM
Kawai VT: so... no Android app, uh?
by Ragtime2k - 04/01/20 12:41 PM
8DIO 1985 Yamaha C5 - 70% off
by newer player - 04/01/20 12:13 PM
Suggestion on what to buy...used Kawai CA67 or
by Rockappalla - 04/01/20 08:23 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,839
Posts2,940,952
Members96,437
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3