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Hello all,

After having played on average (this is a euphemism) pianos for two long decades, I have decided to look for a first tier piano (preferably new) and have to admit it is difficult to make a choice between all these magnificent hand made instruments: they all sound different and have a different action. I am wondering how I should weigh my criteria between a piano that sounds amazing but has an action I am not too happy with and one that sounds less good but has an action that perfectly suits me.

I know that voicing can substantially change a piano tone and that the action can be regulated/worked on so that it can be adapted to the pianist's tastes, but by how much can these be modified and which one is best to compromise on?

I welcome any thoughts and advice on this.

Thanks,

Cyderyk

I went for my favorite action, and then use VSTs for the sound. But then you're tied to a computer so there is that drawback.

If I didn't have VSTs, I definitely would've tried more keyboard actions and sacrificed for the sake of tone. Tone matters more to me than feel, personally. Thankfully with VSTs and a low latency interface I can have the best of both worlds.

Only you can decide. But if you are getting a tier one piano you shouldn't really have to choose much between tone and touch or make much of a compromise. BTW virtually no tier one piano is "hand made" anymore because many parts of piano making can be done better by computer controlled machines.

The two are not mutually exclusive. A great action will continue next you to the piano and enable you to get the best sound out of it. Find a piano that does well in both, and buy what feels and sounds best overall to you, maybe favoring action a little. Your ears and hands will guide you.

Yes, not mutually exclusive but no matter how good the action is it can't change the piano's tone.

Top tier pinos doesn't give you much choice. You certainly won't go far wrong with the 3 Bs, Hamburg Steinway, Grotrian Steinweg, Shadd etc.

If you are in USA, it might be worth considering a lower tier model, such as NY Steinway, Pearl river etc.



(Irony alert).

For me, the action of the piano can really limit what I am able to play to my satisfaction. I love baroque music, but have difficulties with ornamentation, especially with my left hand. And in classical or romantic music, sustained passages of rapid runs or arpeggios, again especially with my left hand, can give me trouble. A well-regulated, even, lighter action reduces my frustration with my own limitations, and increases my enjoyment of playing.

In searching for a piano, an action that I liked would be my first priority. Among pianos with actions I liked, I would then consider tone and price.

I find that I can enjoy playing pianos with a range of different tones (although there are some with sounds that I just don't like). However, I can only enjoy playing a heavy action in repertoire where the action does not exacerbate my technical inadequacies.

I agree that you should be able to find a tier one piano with both tone and touch to your satisfaction—especially if cost is not too limiting a factor.

This morning I had the pleasure of playing a couple of £130,000 grand pianos, a Bosendorfer and a Steinway. Both different sounds and different actions but both ones on which one can play at the highest level. So the simple answer is that neither tone or action will be a problem with tier one pianos. You just need to go out and play them all until you find the one that suits you best. Only you can decide that.

I've seen this go either way, so it's hard to say without knowing specifics. Things vary greatly from brand to brand and model to model. 1st, I always recommend purchasing a piano with the help of a trusted technician. Sometimes slight adjustments to regulation and/or voicing can make huge difference, and at other times, the issues are major. Having a technician, preferably a concert-level technician, to discuss what you like and don't like about an instrument can be invaluable to keep you out of trouble later on. A technician can evaluate the tone and the touch of an instrument and tell you what adjustments can be easily made to bring the piano up to your expectations.

generally, deciding whether a piano's tone/sound is appealing can be determined a little sooner in the testing process, than how suitable the action and response is. a playing action that is obviously unsuitable for a particular player, or simply flawed, is also obvious early on in the process, but there's a pretty big middle ground where sitting down and playing eight or twelve minutes or more is needed. if a piano's sound doesn't appeal, it's usually apparent in less time than that.

if you're auditioning tier one pianos, after a while you'll determine which makers generally appeal to your ear the most. at that point you can focus on test playing brands x and z rather than d, n, or f. if you have not established your definite preferences in terms of action and response, that can be your focus once you've eliminated a few makers.

this is just one logical means of eliminating incompatible pianos, based on my experience that there is variability in actions between pianos of the same model and manufacture, more so than how they sound. once you've tested a decent number of samples you can probably work out what's best for yourself.

I agree that among first-tier pianos, one may not have to make an either/or choice between tone and action. That said (and take this from a non-expert), I think that there would be greater chance of modifying the action than changing the characteristic tone of the piano.

To be in a position of choosing among top-tier pianos is an enviable one, and you may find yourself an embarrassment of riches. Enjoy the search and don't relent until you find the ideal instrument.

Regards,

I don't think touch and tone, from the pianist's perspective, is completely separable.

I do think that in top-tier pianos, each combination of touch + tone has its range that you may some more comfortable, and some more exciting. Again, to each individual's taste.

I think the OP was referring to acoustic pianos.

Agreed. That should read “connect” not the autocorrected “Continue next”

Another factor is that tone will change when the piano is in a different room. Action will not.

Plenty of fine answers here already. My only advice is to *not* buy a piano whose tone you don't like at least in its basics. You *could* buy a new piano and immediately change the hammers to another brand and another sound, but that's odd, expensive, and iffy.

You'll find a piano that will satisfy you in both action and sound departments. Just don't settle: decide right now that your search will likely take you several months.

Good luck, and keep us posted if you wish. It's an exciting thing to seek one's dream piano!

Thank you for all your answers. I really appreciate the effort you are making to help me and my first world problem!




Indeed! I am looking for grand pianos around 7 foot long.




I should have been more specific when I mentioned top tier. I am considering any piano in the "Iconic" and "Venerable" categories (these terms are dreadful!) from Larry Fine's "A map of the market for new pianos" (https://www.pianobuyer.com/Articles/Detail/ArticleID/242) and will play any other instrument that I can find which are not in that category and consider them if I like them (so far, one got added).

As of now, I have a list of about 10 makes (which can grow but will eventually shrink to one) on which I have some detailed notes.




Thanks for your answer.

If I come here, it is because this is an important purchase for me. It represents a substantial financial investment (I have lived a frugal live for decades now, mostly to be able to afford my dream's piano). I am not always feeling comfortable with this purchase but it is a logical one to make from my life experience/perspective. It is because this is so important and stressful to me that I am reaching our for external advice.




I disagree: all these pianos are of great quality but are significantly different in terms of personality. It then becomes a matter of taste and if there are N such tier one pianos, there is an (N-1)/N probability that a compromise has to be made! That's where I am, trying to figure out which compromise is better than the others.




That is the essence of my problem: it is not a problem of quality but of suitability (also, I am looking at a bit smaller instruments ). These pianos are like mermaids to me: the more they sing, the more I am attracted, ahem... the more I play on one piano, the more its action feels "home" and the more the action of other pianos feels "foreign". I do not know how to remain impartial.




Great advice but how would I find a technician I could trust?




My auditioning process is very similar! I should have been a bit more descriptive in my original post but wanted to keep it short to avoid boring the reader with unnecessary details.

To continue on this, I have eliminated makes whose pianos don't make a sound that is nice to my ear. The remaining makes have different tonal characteristics and none of them suits me perfectly (e.g. brand A has my favorite tone but I find it hard to play ppp on it while brand B has an action that helps me play ppp easily but its tone becomes slightly too bright to my liking when pushed above mf).

There are two aspects that make my progress even more difficult:
-piano showrooms come in different style and acoustics. Most have actually poor acoustics and it makes it difficult to compare two pianos in two different showrooms.
-when the piano will be moved to its new home, it will need to be voiced and the acoustics will be different. How can one have an idea of how the piano tone will change when moved from a large showroom with reflective walls to a smaller room with carpets, for instance?




I am not sure I followed you on this. Could you give me more details, please?




Thanks! In fact, I gave myself about a year or two for this! It's exciting, pleasant but also stressful.

I'll keep you posted with pleasure. In fact, reading other people's experience is very enriching and helpful so I have started to put some notes together, hoping they will help other people as other people's notes are helping me right now.

That can be a challenge. It took me a while to find one. I actually have 3 in our area now that I have a relationship with. If you can share your location someone on PW might be able to make a suggestion or 2. But I'd seek out a technician who is highly regarded as a concert-level technician. Concert technicians are used to working with picky, demanding, pianists. They are good at reading between the lines and picking up on what an artists preferences are in a pianist. Since they deal with the top makes of instruments and at the most demanding level, their expertise is invaluable in my opinion. A great technician can give you just what you want when you don't know how to ask for it. Casually ask the piano salesman in conversation. If you looking at semi-concert grands, I'd say they'll recommend on of the top technicians. You might hear the same name come up at the Kawai dealer, Yamaha dealer, and Steinway dealer. That'd be a big clue. Check out the internet. Many post their experience on their websites. But give several a call. 2 of the 3 best concert technicians in my area have very low profiles on the internet -- not much more than a name and phone#. I called them out of frustration, b/c I couldn't get anyone else to return my calls or their availability was weeks out. It turns out I found 2 gold mines!

Then meet with them. Maybe make a trip to their shop, or meet them somewhere where they're working on instruments. Talk with them, and see who clicks, professional and personally. The personality side of things to me is very important. This is someone you need to be able to talk openly with.

It took me 3 years to find the S&S 'B' I wanted, only to discover it was a 'D' after all !

I just kept playng different pianos until I found one I went back to again and again. I guess it chose me.

The tonal change may or may not happen. But unless the dealer is willing to let you try out a piano in your home(occasionally they will do that), all you can do is see how much you like it in the showroom. If there is smaller room in the showroom closer to the size of your piano room, you could ask the dealer to change its location.

One additional thing that hasn't been mentioned yet. If one finds, for example, a piano whose action you love but whose tone is not quite what you want, you can ask the dealer to voice the piano more to your liking. Same thing if one finds a piano whose tone you love but whose action is not quite what you want.