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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2744691 06/15/18 01:26 PM
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About the Kontakt 5/Kontakt Player issue, the reason Jason gives for wanting to have his new Steinway only for Kontakt 5, is the library is very large, representing a higher-end product, and it's likely the majority of users will already own Kontakt. See his email, which Cinjero publishes here earlier.

So it seems his niche is the professionals, or semi-professionals, though the line between an amateur and a (semi)-professional, can be blurry. There is nothing wrong with that, and it's one way to cut costs, and get the selling price down.

As we've discussed, the major stumbling block of this new VSTi, is it's huge size, not the Kontakt 5/Player issue. Actually the RAM might be another bottleneck. I got extra 16GB for my computer, to be able to load all microphone positions of the Production Grand 2 Gold, which is a lot smaller library than Production Steinway D Concert Grand.

Anyhow, I recommend getting the full Kontakt 5, at least for those who qualify for the crossgrade price, €124,50, when it's 50% off. Not because of PV's new Steinway, but because it opens the doors for many other interesting libraries, like from Cinesamples, and Chocolate Audio.

I've read some comments elsewhere, stating that Kontakt 5 is problematic for virtual piano instruments, but I've not experienced it. Don't know if that's because I am tone deaf or not, ha ha!


Me on YouTube

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
EPW #2744696 06/15/18 01:50 PM
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There are alternatives. I got google internet a year ago. They offer 1000 Mbps. So that would be a 30 minute download.
But at the time I figured that 100 Mbps was enough.
Originally Posted by EPW
I was thinking the same thing. Only way I would ever consider this Mega Piano library is if it came on a
SSD hard drive. Really makes my decision to go will Pianoteq look good. I figure modeling for me is the future.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2744700 06/15/18 02:32 PM
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Not in my neck of the city. Don't think it is coming anytime soon.
Sad part is I'm in a big metro area. Most I can get is 100Mbps


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2744712 06/15/18 03:44 PM
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I know a number of folks here who do not have full Kontakt and so this is an issue for them. As far as getting the crossgrade pricing which is currently on sale for $125, ironically it only works if you have a third party library they recognize and already has a Kontakt player version. So for most, they would have to pay full price and would not qualify for the discount pricing. NI has some really convoluted pricing policies.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2744718 06/15/18 04:01 PM
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Agreed NI has some opaque and expensive pricing schemes. That is an issue here.

I have seen this Kontakt $125 crossgrade trick a few places (but haven't tried myself):

Originally Posted by Fleer
You can get the crossgrade price with the free Sennheiser drummic'a (http://de-de.sennheiser.com/drummica).


http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...layer-vs-kontakt-5-full.html#Post2626829

https://www.native-instruments.com/...akt-5-player/kontakt-player-vs.-kontakt/

Last edited by newer player; 06/15/18 04:09 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2744722 06/15/18 04:49 PM
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Think I qualified for the crossgrade price after I got Galaxy German Grand, at €80. Didn't buy it just to get Kontakt 5 at a reduced price, think I bought a few more Kontakt Player compatible instruments after that. Never had the intention to get Kontakt 5, but then suddenly did one day, guess it's called G.A.S by some.


Me on YouTube

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
newer player #2744725 06/15/18 05:21 PM
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Expensive, yes.
But not opaque. They tell you straight up: You gotta pay a lot!
Originally Posted by newer player
Agreed NI has some opaque and expensive pricing schemes. That is an issue here.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2744740 06/15/18 06:28 PM
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I've used Continuata as a download manager for other products; its reliable which I would hope what he decides to go with, download links are 80s tech.

342 is a lot of pianos (2 x the Yamaha)---- I could squeeze it onto my SSD (2) ~ 2tb or my SSD (3) ~1t, either have the space... hmm what to do...

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2748704 07/02/18 07:13 AM
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What day will the release date be? I am eagerly awaiting this. I can't wait to hear the demos smile

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2751074 07/12/18 06:46 PM
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Is there any chance that by the miracle, soundwise final release of the Production Voices Concert Grand can be as good as Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D? Demo here doesn't sound as good...

https://vimeo.com/222850726/6293497e54

Should I wait for a release?


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; UVI - Falcon; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2751085 07/12/18 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Is there any chance that by the miracle, soundwise final release of the Production Voices Concert Grand can be as good as Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D? Demo here doesn't sound as good...

https://vimeo.com/222850726/6293497e54

Should I wait for a release?


The demo sounds okay to me but I did notice that it was posted a year ago. The more or equally important question is how playable is the piano library going to be. Embertone has received some criticism in this aspect on this forum although I think i read somewhere that Embertone are working on updates.



Last edited by Jay017; 07/12/18 07:42 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2751090 07/12/18 07:57 PM
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Maybe this is a better representation of Production Voices Concert Grand. Still an early demo from 9 months ago.

But has several mics. It might requre headphones for proper sound with Ambisonics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gGmoZ604J8

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2751097 07/12/18 08:58 PM
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newer player

Thanks. Saw this demo... Sounded flat to me. Hate that video. He said: "Cracks caused by a computer, not by a Concert Grand library" and this cracks are on their other videos too. I haven't seen such an unprofessional attitude elsewhere. Guys, if your computer is so weak, then you need to buy a new computer! Customers will not believe you or will think your software is so "Heavy" that will not run on their laptop. You have to buy 12 Core Xeon but don't even mention about the cracks! I suspect that they even don't have an 88 key keyboard during the demos... Look at the limited key range they press...

PV shines on "How you should act to prevent the selling of your products". Their demos are Zero informative! 90% of sounds played the Middle and the High register. Buyers want to hear the Low register too! Please, do something with your demos! Just find one good pianist and tell him to play all the keyboard long and post these videos.

They spent their time in things as "ambisonics" and "under the piano mics"...



Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; UVI - Falcon; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Max_Forte #2751106 07/12/18 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
newer player

Thanks. Saw this demo... Sounded flat to me. Hate that video. He said: "Cracks caused by a computer, not by a Concert Grand library" and this cracks are on their other videos too. I haven't seen such an unprofessional attitude elsewhere. Guys, if your computer is so weak, then you need to buy a new computer! Customers will not believe you or will think your software is so "Heavy" that will not run on their laptop. You have to buy 12 Core Xeon but don't even mention about the cracks! I suspect that they even don't have an 88 key keyboard during the demos... Look at the limited key range they press...

PV shines on "How you should act to prevent the selling of your products". Their demos are Zero informative! 90% of sounds played the Middle and the High register. Buyers want to hear the Low register too! Please, do something with your demos! Just find one good pianist and tell him to play all the keyboard long and post these videos.

They spent their time in things as "ambisonics" and "under the piano mics"...



Not flat to me.
However, that demos are a long time ago, not even demos after the release.
It is not too late to criticize the product after the official demos.
In other words, it's too early to judge everything with incomplete demos. Let's wait for the release.

Last edited by angmyu; 07/12/18 09:55 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Max_Forte #2751115 07/12/18 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Maybe this is a better representation of Production Voices Concert Grand. Still an early demo from 9 months ago.

But has several mics. It might requre headphones for proper sound with Ambisonics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gGmoZ604J8


Thanks for posting this. Sounds quite nice to me, just hope the playability is as good as Galaxy or CFX.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2751185 07/13/18 08:48 AM
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I have to say that the playability of Production Voices' pianos is great, the samples are clean and UI design of the Production Grand 2 is the best in my opinion. It's a pity their demos don't show the actual level of their software. I purchased Production Grand 2 only because of the advice of users ( BTW thanks guys) on this forum, demos were useless. Now it is my second favorite piano VSTi (after Vintage D).


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; UVI - Falcon; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Max_Forte #2751201 07/13/18 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Thanks. Saw this demo... Sounded flat to me.


The PVCG Compact does not sound flat to me and the lower registers have quite a bit of energy. There are some issues with what I call a *beta release Compact which are noted clearly above. This beta released 6 months ago shows a lot of promise if the quirks are ironed out.

Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Hate that video. He said: "Cracks caused by a computer, not by a Concert Grand library" and this cracks are on their other videos too


The computer pops and crackles are probably from trying to run the video software and piano together. I found them distracting as well. One of the early videos has an apparent L-R balance issue. But I would prefer Jason focus on getting the VI as good as possible so I do not care about the video updates or ambosonics so much.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2751295 07/13/18 06:41 PM
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Audio demos. Sounds much better than on early videos.

Playlist on Sound Cloud:

https://soundcloud.com/productionvoices/sets/concert-grand


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; UVI - Falcon; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
newer player #2751428 07/14/18 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player

The PVCG Compact does not sound flat to me and the lower registers have quite a bit of energy. There are some issues with what I call a *beta release Compact which are noted clearly above. This beta released 6 months ago shows a lot of promise if the quirks are ironed out.


The lower registers are indeed not bad. It's the upper registers that concern me; very weak and decaying far too quickly. I do hope he finds a way to address that.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2751450 07/14/18 11:30 AM
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Thanks for posting those demos Max Forte.

Interestingly, the third demo was posted 2 years ago and has no, "Kontakt scripting or "magic" done to the samples."

The other four demos were posted 17 days ago with "no processing (no EQ, no reverb, no compression)."

You can see the details written in soundcloud if you click on the track name. . .

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