Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
70 registered members (clothearednincompo, ando, bagovarna, Artur Gajewski, 90125, 2Be3, Animisha, Chris Warren, 16 invisible), 930 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service #2744561
06/14/18 09:03 PM
06/14/18 09:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 98
Minneapolis, MN
D
DDobs Offline OP
Full Member
DDobs  Offline OP
Full Member
D

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 98
Minneapolis, MN
I'm thinking of traveling (driving distance) to get different quotes on Yamaha C3x's. In other words, if a dealer in my city quotes me one price, I may get a different price if I drive several hours to a nearby state. First, has anyone been successful in playing offers off each other? Second, assuming I bought from a dealer in a neighboring state, are the Yamaha warranty areas so limited that I would have difficulty getting service in my owns state?

Thanks for any input you can give.


Mason & Hamlin AA
Learning Beethoven Bagatelle Op. 126 No. 1
Also working through Faber-Piano Literature Book 4

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744571
06/14/18 09:17 PM
06/14/18 09:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,761
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,761
New Hampshire
You can end up creating "bad blood" when you make price the final and only factor. I suggest creating a good relationship with the nearest dealer (unless of course there is already a problem). You will usually (repeat USUALLY) get better service when a good relationship exists.

When prices start getting cut, something ultimately gets sacrificed.

That's my .02

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 06/14/18 09:19 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744576
06/14/18 09:41 PM
06/14/18 09:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
I agree with Peter. Plus, the Yamaha dealer in a bordering state or different region is supposed to honor certain territorial service area agreements. But I know for a fact that not all dealers do. I've had piano dealers in another state to give me a price quote on a certain brand piano with territorial agreements and then tell me not to tell the local dealer they gave me a lower price quote.

If you bought the piano from a dealer out of your service area, it would be very awkward, to say the least, to ask the local dealer to service the piano and provide warranty service if needed. But stranger things have happened, I suppose...

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744584
06/14/18 10:34 PM
06/14/18 10:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 57
New Orleans area
R
Rally Offline
Full Member
Rally  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 57
New Orleans area
If you purchase from a dealer in a neighboring state and the dealer delivers and sets up the piano in your home, why would that same dealer not be able to provide warranty service in your home?

If you go the out of state route, my guess is the manufacturer or dealer will send a factory authorized tech to work on the piano. If the problem can not be resolved you will end up negotiating with the out of state dealer.

Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744586
06/14/18 11:03 PM
06/14/18 11:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 98
Minneapolis, MN
D
DDobs Offline OP
Full Member
DDobs  Offline OP
Full Member
D

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 98
Minneapolis, MN
Thank you, all. Those were helpful comments and I'll take them into consideration.


Mason & Hamlin AA
Learning Beethoven Bagatelle Op. 126 No. 1
Also working through Faber-Piano Literature Book 4

Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744631
06/15/18 05:57 AM
06/15/18 05:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,366
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
1000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,366
In the Ozarks of Missouri
I do not see such a problem here. What happens when I buy a piano in Texas, then shortly afterwards move to Missouri? A warranty is still a warranty. Will the Missouri dealer not honor any warranty work? Just food for thought.


[Linked Image]
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: Rickster] #2744635
06/15/18 06:55 AM
06/15/18 06:55 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,396
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,396
New York City
Originally Posted by Rickster
If you bought the piano from a dealer out of your service area, it would be very awkward, to say the least, to ask the local dealer to service the piano and provide warranty service if needed.
The local dealer doesn't have to service the piano or provide warranty service.

Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744637
06/15/18 07:14 AM
06/15/18 07:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
I do not see such a problem here. What happens when I buy a piano in Texas, then shortly afterwards move to Missouri? A warranty is still a warranty. Will the Missouri dealer not honor any warranty work? Just food for thought.

I see this scenario as a totally different scenario than buying from an out-of-territory dealer. The piano was purchased from the local dealer initially; no territorial agreements were breached. The owner of the piano moves to another locale. The piano now needs service, and I'd think the nearest dealer would be the proper contact/source for receiving warranty service.

On the other hand, the local dealer might not be so accommodating, even though the piano owner bought locally initially and then moved to another area. It could go either way.

Piano dealers are private, individual business people. They have a lot of latitude to make their own decisions, to an extent, which includes selling to out of service area customers, and whether or not to provide service to anyone who did not purchase a piano from them. Also, sometimes, disputes arise between dealers and the manufacturers regarding warranty issues.

In other words, there are no absolute guarantees either way... (except death and taxes:-)

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744649
06/15/18 08:24 AM
06/15/18 08:24 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 302
Chicago
J
John305 Offline
Full Member
John305  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 302
Chicago
Then the warranty that comes with a new piano can have very limited value if you end up moving or you sell the piano to someone out of state even though the manufacturer says the warranty is fully transferable. I’m not sure I buy this. If I buy a Ford I can take it to any Ford dealer for warranty work, they have to honor the warranty regardless of who I bought the car from. I would think that an authorized dealer would be obligated both by the manufacturer and the law to honor the warranty regardless of where the piano was purchased.


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744663
06/15/18 10:08 AM
06/15/18 10:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by John305
If I buy a Ford I can take it to any Ford dealer for warranty work, they have to honor the warranty regardless of who I bought the car from.

Not to dispute your comment, but I'm not so sure this is absolutely, 100% correct. Automobile dealers are also private business people who own a franchised dealership. For example, my dad and brother worked for and retired from GM. We've always got the family GM employee discount on new vehicles (which is not as good of a discount as it used to be). A GM dealer, any GM dealer, does not have to honor this GM employee discount.

By the same token, if a particular dealer did not want to service your vehicle under warranty, they do not have to if they so choose. Of course, I could be wrong, and I hope I am. But I'm from Missouri on this one...

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744665
06/15/18 10:20 AM
06/15/18 10:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,901
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,901
Oakland
I tuned a piano that someone bought from Costco recently. It has a string with a broken winding, which is an obvious manufacturing defect. I tried contacting the distributor, or who was the distributor, to see if it was under warranty and I could get a string. I got no response.

I would not count on a warranty from anyone but a reputable dealer.


Semipro Tech
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744673
06/15/18 10:53 AM
06/15/18 10:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by BDB
I would not count on a warranty from anyone but a reputable dealer.

And even that may well be a little iffy.

In my view, products warranties sound great until you need them...

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744676
06/15/18 11:09 AM
06/15/18 11:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,642
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,642
Atlanta, GA
In the auto industry, service and warranty work is a profit center for dealerships. In the piano industry, it is not. At the car dealer level, profit is driven by volume, service and used car sales. The manufacturer's reward car dealerships on the back end. At the piano dealer level, profit is sales driven, restoration is lower profit, and service is often an expense or neutral.

It's not uncommon for a customer to purchase a piano in your market and then move to another while within the warranty period, and I don't think we've ever had an issue providing service under those circumstances. I think that is an attitude shared by most if not all dealers I've spoken with, so your warranty, transferable or otherwise is still valuable. If a customer does shop with us, but we cannot earn the sale for whatever reason, then that customer does not have access to our considerable service resources. If a customer purchases privately, they service is offered at normal rates and at our normal discretion - we like to work on good pianos in our area.

Further, I've not seen "convenience" as a requirement to honor a warranty, but a benefit to having a local provider. I think it is a mistake to think of Authorized as obligated. The seller is obligated to honor their warranty under their agreement with the manufacturer. I have seen attempts to adjust this model by some brands, but never industry wide to change the business model.

Generally, the reason to leave your local area is because there is either a lack of options (rural or piano desert) or because you want something specific (brand not in your area) or hard-to-find (special finish) or because you've found a good pre-owned version that saves you a substantial sum. I'm not surprised when a customer cross shops to check for competitive pricing, but when pushed too far, service (either prep or after-sale) is the first value-added element to go. There is a very strong correlation between after-sale service and customer satisfaction...even moreso than initial price and customer satisfaction. Keep that in mind while shopping for a common model on a widely available brand.

We have many customers that shop with us regionally because we have several uncommon brands and a good selection of pre-owned pianos that may also be harder to find locally. We work to build relationships regionally with skilled, independent techs to be our front line for regular service or minor issues, but if something more involved happens, then we step up to satisfy the client and maintain our reputation. There are other dealers like us, but the vast majority are focused on their local market for good reason. All things to consider as you venture out.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744731
06/15/18 04:37 PM
06/15/18 04:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 717
Wisconsin, USA
L
Lakeviewsteve Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lakeviewsteve  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 717
Wisconsin, USA
I hope warranty service isn't ever necessary. Who has had to have their piano serviced under warranty?


Bösendorfer 170
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744738
06/15/18 05:20 PM
06/15/18 05:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 732
Melville Saskatchewan
F
FrankCox Offline
500 Post Club Member
FrankCox  Offline
500 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 732
Melville Saskatchewan
A couple of years ago I had a one-year-old water heater where the heat exchanger cracked (and started leaking carbon monoxode!)

Turned out that the plumber had installed the water heater in accordance with the instructions in the manual, but the manufacturer had subsequently changed the manual (without notifying anyone) and the installation had to be modified and a new heat exchanger installed.

Now for the interesting part: The plumbers billed me $700 for labour for making the changes and installing the new heat exchanger!

They told me that the manufacturer had provided a new heat exchanger that would otherwise cost $450 at no cost but they weren't getting paid for their labour so I should pay.

I said tough luck, I don't know who's responsible for those labour costs but I do know that it's not me.

Eventually I got them to not charge me for that but it was a hard-fought battle, and I'm still bitter about it, as you can see.

The plumbers maintain that they really do stand behind the products that they sell. I disagree and I've told them that but since it's difficult to get a good plumber around here that will actually show up and do the work I still deal with them and they still do my plumbing.

So even a written warranty and work by the original dealer doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get what you think you get when a problem arises.


If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744742
06/15/18 06:01 PM
06/15/18 06:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by FrankCox
So even a written warranty and work by the original dealer doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get what you think you get when a problem arises.

Interesting story, Frank. I'm glad it worked out in your favor after all was said and done. I teach HVACR (Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning & Refrigeration) at a small community technical college, and have for the last 25 years. In the last few years I've gotten more calls from more HVACR related companies, bigger profile companies, manufacturers, etc..., looking for entry level HVACR technicians than I ever have before. My program has a 97% job placement rate for graduates. The other 3% are students who don't want a job and are in training for other purposes.

I remember when I was working as an HVACR service technician myself about 30 years or so ago, there were times when I was on the other end of the rope. I'd have to be on call 24/7 one week out of each month. I'd get calls in the middle of the night to got out and do repairs if the customer deemed it an emergency and was willing to pay the additional after-hours service fee. I remember once that a lady called on a weekend about a newer unit the company had installed that was under warranty. Thing was, the warranty service calls were only during normal business hours. An after-hours fee for service calls on warranty related issue was not part of the warranty. So, I explained this to the lady over the phone. She still insisted that I come out immediately and fix her A/C. So, I did. On the invoice I stated that the parts and materials were covered under warranty, but there was a fee owed for the after-hours emergency service call fee that was not covered under the warranty. The lady signed the invoice and I left for the next emergency service call.

That Monday, the lady called the owner of the company and complained to high-heaven about the emergency service fee, which I clearly explained to her, because it was a warranty call. The owner gave in and waved the fee. That lady took unfair advantage of me and the company I worked for. So, like I said, I've been on both sides of the coin.

I know that story wasn't related to pianos, but it easily could be. If I were playing my piano at 3:00am and it broke under warranty, I'd want the dealer to send someone out right then, even if he had to come out himself. smile

I'm looking forward to some of the dealer members here jumping in Kurt's thread about piano warranties, and who pays for things the manufacturer doesn't.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744754
06/15/18 07:52 PM
06/15/18 07:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,827
USA
B
Bob Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,827
USA
In the case of Yamaha, the chances of needing warranty service is very small. Any technician can contact Yamaha directly and resolve any warranty issues.




Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744851
06/16/18 09:06 AM
06/16/18 09:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by Bob
In the case of Yamaha, the chances of needing warranty service is very small.

I'd say the chances of any newly manufactured acoustic piano nowadays needing serious warranty service is very small. And, what the dealers may not tell customers who buy new pianos and brag about the warranty pre-sale, is that the warranty does not cover things like tuning, regulation, sticky keys, sticky dampers, bobbling hammers, or squeaky pedals. This is where establishing a good relationship with the local dealer is important. The better, more reputable dealers would likely take care of things like this on their own dime in order to maintain their good reputation and have satisfied customers.

On the other hand, if the issue is not covered under the manufacturer's warranty (defects in materials or workmanship), they (the dealer) are not obligated to do anything.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: DDobs] #2744880
06/16/18 11:51 AM
06/16/18 11:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,761
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,761
New Hampshire
Rick,

Especially is this true if customer went to dealer A (local), didn't like the price, then went to dealer B (out of area), noticed a price difference and went back to dealer A and plays one dealer against the other to try to negotiate the best price...then dealer B "wins" the price battle, but later there is a warranty issue and customer now goes to dealer A to fix it. Hmmm...not a fun situation.

There are some people (and certain cultures) that seem to have an emotional need to get the absolute lowest price possible on an item. They forget (or don't seem to care) that pianos are not like blenders or vacuum cleaners...pianos need loving attention from people who care in order to perform at their peak potential. When you "sour the pot" by being OVERLY concerned about price to the point of nausea, you likewise sour the pot when it comes to service.

Unfortunately, the same people who "have to get the lowest price" are also the same ones who WILL NOT follow through on the recommended service schedule and therefore create a neglected instrument that now needs extra service...etc, etc.

Bummer.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 06/16/18 12:00 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)
Re: Bargaining with Dealers and Warranty Service [Re: P W Grey] #2744887
06/16/18 12:20 PM
06/16/18 12:20 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,916
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,916
Victoria, BC
Words worth repeating:

Originally Posted by P W Grey
Rick,
[...]
There are some people (and certain cultures) that seem to have an emotional need to get the absolute lowest price possible on an item. They forget (or don't seem to care) that pianos are not like blenders or vacuum cleaners...pianos need loving attention from people who care in order to perform at their peak potential. When you "sour the pot" by being OVERLY concerned about price to the point of nausea, you likewise sour the pot when it comes to service.
[...]
Pwg


Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
ad
Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Lessons Online

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Abbey Cfx lite individual key volume
by Jitin. 01/19/19 07:56 PM
Best Electric Sit-Stand Rig for a Slab
by R111. 01/19/19 07:51 PM
Casio GP-500 - New owner impressions
by westland. 01/19/19 03:21 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,682
Posts2,783,917
Members92,166
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2