Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
145 registered members (ASilotiCoffee, ando, almo82, Alpacacino, butchkoch, agent8698, 31 invisible), 1,626 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Practicing on upright pianos #2744406
06/14/18 12:15 PM
06/14/18 12:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 70
V
Vilhelm Moqvist Offline OP
Full Member
Vilhelm Moqvist  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 70
Unfortunately, since grand pianos are very expensive I only have an upright at home. My question is: Do you think practicing on uprights affect how pianists play? And in that case, in what way? And do you think it is important to have a grand piano?

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Vilhelm Moqvist] #2744409
06/14/18 12:22 PM
06/14/18 12:22 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,917
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,917
Victoria, BC
When you think of the number of advanced pianists as well as professionals who have little choice but to practice on an upright because that's all they can afford and/or have room for, I don't think that a grand is essential to developing as a pianist. More important, I think, is that the upright is well-maintained at its optimal potential as much as possible.

Yes, one should have the experience of playing on a grand and some of us are very lucky to have a good grand in our home, but many pianists have advanced without one.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: BruceD] #2744420
06/14/18 12:53 PM
06/14/18 12:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 70
V
Vilhelm Moqvist Offline OP
Full Member
Vilhelm Moqvist  Offline OP
Full Member
V

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by BruceD
When you think of the number of advanced pianists as well as professionals who have little choice but to practice on an upright because that's all they can afford and/or have room for, I don't think that a grand is essential to developing as a pianist. More important, I think, is that the upright is well-maintained at its optimal potential as much as possible.

Yes, one should have the experience of playing on a grand and some of us are very lucky to have a good grand in our home, but many pianists have advanced without one.

Regards,

Thank you for your reply! I have got the impression that an upright would slow down the learning progress as a pianist but I might be very wrong. Thanks again!

Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Vilhelm Moqvist] #2744422
06/14/18 01:05 PM
06/14/18 01:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,243
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,243
I never played on a grand for 8 years until after Grade 8 (the highest grade in ABRSM), when my new teacher had two grands in his home, where I went for my lessons while at university, after finishing high school.

But I was still practicing on uprights in the university's Music Department, and succeeded in obtaining my performance diploma two years later.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: BruceD] #2744441
06/14/18 02:26 PM
06/14/18 02:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 42
M
mp15 Offline
Full Member
mp15  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 42
With very few exceptions, pianists (including most professionals) often have to deal with all sorts of unpleasant surprises when playing on pianos that aren't our own, including grands. I think that practicing on exclusively a pristine grand would turn me off to playing almost anywhere else.

I do feel that it helps my playing to use a grand occassionally, and then transfer that feeling elsewhere. There's still a good deal of sensitivity that can be squeezed out of most "lesser" instruments.



Beethoven - Piano Sonata, op. 101
Bartok - Piano Sonata
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Vilhelm Moqvist] #2744449
06/14/18 03:05 PM
06/14/18 03:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,011
T
Tim Adrianson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Tim Adrianson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,011
Hi, Vilhelm Movquist! I agree with what has been said, but, being as good a pianist as you are, I would make judicious choices concerning the capability of your upright to withstand the repertoire. If your upright is a console, for example, I would be optimistic that it could handle the demands of Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Schumann, Beethoven, prokofiev, etc -- much of which is punishing when played at full tilt. If your upright is a spinet, I would be more cautious. And I would agree with BruceD that you should get to know a good tuner/regulator, one who can keep the instrument in fit repair. I myself had a Yamaha upright console for many years, and it endured my considerable poundings for many years.

Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Vilhelm Moqvist] #2744452
06/14/18 03:17 PM
06/14/18 03:17 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 463
Rural UK
F
Fareham Offline
Full Member
Fareham  Offline
Full Member
F

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 463
Rural UK
Dummy keyboards : After 60 years of practising, I happenstanced across a workstation with a missing power cable, which didn't make any sounds (obviously!)

I've found that this has been the best instrument I've practised on in years, as I have to imagine every single note that it makes, and I don't get much feedback from the unweighted keys as they are a bit like playing blancmange.

I'm not saying that it works for everything, but to those who have achieved a reasonable standard, it does concentrate the mind in new ways ...


The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Vilhelm Moqvist] #2744456
06/14/18 03:23 PM
06/14/18 03:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 88
S
spk Offline
Full Member
spk  Offline
Full Member
S

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 88
I think practicing on a grand makes a difference. Not so much in dynamic range or rate of repetition, but more in the tone. I think that one phrases and articulates differently when one hears the longer sustain of the grand piano. Obviously plenty of people do fine learning on an upright, but I think it would be difficult to disagree that a grand would be more optimal.

A conservatory teacher told me she could tell I practiced on an upright by my tone.

Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: BruceD] #2744675
06/15/18 11:04 AM
06/15/18 11:04 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 463
Rural UK
F
Fareham Offline
Full Member
Fareham  Offline
Full Member
F

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 463
Rural UK
Originally Posted by BruceD
When you think of the number of advanced pianists as well as professionals who have little choice but to practice on an upright because that's all they can afford and/or have room for, I don't think that a grand is essential to developing as a pianist. More important, I think, is that the upright is well-maintained at its optimal potential as much as possible.

Yes, one should have the experience of playing on a grand and some of us are very lucky to have a good grand in our home, but many pianists have advanced without one.

Regards,


That's the irony of it all. The best pianists can't afford the best pianos, and the best pianos aren't owned by the best pianists.


The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: mp15] #2744681
06/15/18 11:36 AM
06/15/18 11:36 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 114
Foster City, CA, US
K
Ken Iisaka Offline
Full Member
Ken Iisaka  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 114
Foster City, CA, US
Originally Posted by mp15
With very few exceptions, pianists (including most professionals) often have to deal with all sorts of unpleasant surprises when playing on pianos that aren't our own, including grands. I think that practicing on exclusively a pristine grand would turn me off to playing almost anywhere else.


Yes, but playing regularly on a well-maintained, responsive instruments helps develop the ear and fingers, and the ability to adapt to different pianos and acoustic environments.

With each upgrade, going from my childhood Yamaha upright to a grand, then a Steinway grand, then a Steinway semi-concert grand, then... better pianos taught me what is possible, and expanded the gamut of expressions I seek. They certainly made me listen with more focus, and adapt better in performance.

It is indeed a "disappointment" at performances on the hall pianos, knowing so much more would have been possible with what I consider the third best piano I've encountered in my life that's in my living room.

Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2744707
06/15/18 02:10 PM
06/15/18 02:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 573
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Colin Miles  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 573
South Wales
Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka

Yes, but playing regularly on a well-maintained, responsive instruments helps develop the ear and fingers, and the ability to adapt to different pianos and acoustic environments..


No, no - playing on different pianos is what develops the ability to play on different pianos and in different environments. I had that experience when I was young but for the last 20 years or so I haven't until this week when I had the chance to play for a couple of mornings on a lot of different pianos. Result was that by the end of it I was back to playing on different pianos without being thrown by either the differences in the pianos or the actual situations.

Last edited by Colin Miles; 06/15/18 02:12 PM. Reason: corrections

Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Vilhelm Moqvist] #2744735
06/15/18 05:02 PM
06/15/18 05:02 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,399
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,399
New York City

The main advantage of practicing on a good grand for non pros is the much greater pleasure in terms of the sound and action responsiveness.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/15/18 05:02 PM.
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2744745
06/15/18 06:30 PM
06/15/18 06:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,261
New York
Mark_C Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,261
New York
Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
....It is indeed a "disappointment" at performances on the hall pianos, knowing so much more would have been possible with what I consider the third best piano I've encountered in my life that's in my living room.

(Hey there, Ken!) [Linked Image]

Gives a nice idea for a new thread....

Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Vilhelm Moqvist] #2744780
06/15/18 10:47 PM
06/15/18 10:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,902
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,902
Oakland
There have been uprights that I have enjoyed playing, and grands that were not very good.


Semipro Tech
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: BDB] #2744834
06/16/18 07:54 AM
06/16/18 07:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,375
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
1000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,375
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by BDB
There have been uprights that I have enjoyed playing, and grands that were not very good.


So true! I have had the same experiences.


[Linked Image]
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2745862
06/20/18 12:28 PM
06/20/18 12:28 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 114
Foster City, CA, US
K
Ken Iisaka Offline
Full Member
Ken Iisaka  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 114
Foster City, CA, US
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka

Yes, but playing regularly on a well-maintained, responsive instruments helps develop the ear and fingers, and the ability to adapt to different pianos and acoustic environments..


No, no - playing on different pianos is what develops the ability to play on different pianos and in different environments.


Sure, playing on different pianos in different environments too is important, but without developing the technical ability to compensate for different environments, one could play the same way no matter what the instrument or the acoustic environment may be, too.

Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2745920
06/20/18 04:53 PM
06/20/18 04:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 573
South Wales
C
Colin Miles Offline
500 Post Club Member
Colin Miles  Offline
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 573
South Wales
Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka

Yes, but playing regularly on a well-maintained, responsive instruments helps develop the ear and fingers, and the ability to adapt to different pianos and acoustic environments..


No, no - playing on different pianos is what develops the ability to play on different pianos and in different environments.


Sure, playing on different pianos in different environments too is important, but without developing the technical ability to compensate for different environments, one could play the same way no matter what the instrument or the acoustic environment may be, too.


I appreciate what you are saying but I think you would find it very difficult to play the same way on different pianos, especially where the actions are quite different. Different pianos will help you develop your technique or at least show you what you need to work on.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: spk] #2746467
06/23/18 04:25 AM
06/23/18 04:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 516
Dorset, England
S
slipperykeys Offline
500 Post Club Member
slipperykeys  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 516
Dorset, England
Originally Posted by spk


A conservatory teacher told me she could tell I practiced on an upright by my tone.


I'm not sayingwhat she says isn't true but if she said that to every student she had there was probably a 99% chance of being right.

While it is silly to pay someone to impart their knowledge, experience and wisdom to you and then ignore them, that doesn't make everything they say right.

I wonder if she could she tell if a bad pianist practiced on a good grand.....

Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: Vilhelm Moqvist] #2746487
06/23/18 06:55 AM
06/23/18 06:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 568
Vermont
toyboy Offline
500 Post Club Member
toyboy  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 568
Vermont
This is a really interesting discussion and I agree with everyone, which basically means I think there is no wrong or right answer about this.

My 2 cents, from a sheerly amateur perspective.

I am fortunate enough to have both a grand (an Estonia 190) and an upright (Baldwin Concert Vertical). The latter I only recently got back after it was loaned out after I bought the Estonia 10 years ago. Now able to go from one to the other, I've discovered that there are passages that I have struggled with for months on the Estonia (see my thread about the Chopin Nocturne Op27, 2) that I can play with relative ease on the Baldwin. So there is that.

Of course I purchased the Estonia for a reason - to hear more, or maybe more accurately, to hear more differently. I can't say that it revolutionized my playing as much as it enhanced it. I still love playing the Baldwin. As do I enjoy play a friend's Kawai KU-10. Those people talking about tone are correct. But in my opinion that is more icing than cake.

There is a story about how Ravel and a friend used to travel around France finding terrible pianos on which to play Chopin Nocturnes. I love this idea because it reminds me that beautiful music doesn't need a fancy instrument to come through. That is, half the experience is in your head. While I'm sure that Chopin would luxuriate on playing a modern day Fazioli, remember, he didn't create his music on an instrument with nearly as much nuance as most any modern grand piano, and probably many uprights too.
.

Re: Practicing on upright pianos [Re: toyboy] #2746489
06/23/18 07:27 AM
06/23/18 07:27 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,399
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,399
New York City
Originally Posted by toyboy
I've discovered that there are passages that I have struggled with for months on the Estonia (see my thread about the Chopin Nocturne Op27, 2) that I can play with relative ease on the Baldwin.
Why do you think is the case? Something different about the touch?

Originally Posted by toyboy
While I'm sure that Chopin would luxuriate on playing a modern day Fazioli, remember, he didn't create his music on an instrument with nearly as much nuance as most any modern grand piano, and probably many uprights too.
While I definitely prefer the sound of modern pianos, I'm not sure one can say they have more nuance. Maybe this depends on what means by that word.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
ad
Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Lessons Online

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Production Voices Concert Grand Gold Review
by Keunyoung Song. 01/20/19 03:58 PM
Effective Practicing?
by Alpacacino. 01/20/19 03:56 PM
Too nervous to play properly during lessons
by SilvieC. 01/20/19 02:54 PM
Article about Can Cakmur from Turkey
by IosPlayer. 01/20/19 01:46 PM
Fatigue in the right shoulder
by ASilotiCoffee. 01/20/19 01:09 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,696
Posts2,784,090
Members92,168
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2