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Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D #2744392
06/14/18 12:24 PM
06/14/18 12:24 PM
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Gabriel Hikaru Offline OP
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Embertone just released a new sampled Steinway.

Early bird discount is 10% off.


Link: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D

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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2744397
06/14/18 12:37 PM
06/14/18 12:37 PM
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Thank you for the information. I've had too many bad experiences with Kontakt Instruments but this one sounds nice. Also I like the way they market and sell it. You can buy a Standard and a Lite version. And then you can buy individual mics for the Standard version for 15$ each, and there's a complete bundle with all mics. Might give this one a go. Although I have to say, the upper notes sound a bit tinny? Edit: the upper few octaves don't sound like a Steinway to me at all. If anything, it reminds me of the Bechstein Digital. What do you think about the demos? The interface looks super stylish though.

Last edited by Grazilerimba; 06/14/18 12:40 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2744408
06/14/18 01:19 PM
06/14/18 01:19 PM
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So the list pricing (excluding any discounts) scheme seems to be as follows:

$39 Lite (can't add mics, 12 velocities per note)
$99 Full (+$15 extra per mic position, 36 velocities per note, una corda, memory purging...)
$175 Full + all mics

The first two options seem to include AKG C414 close mics only.

Optional mics:
Close, Wide, Hammer, Room, Binaural head

"This is a Kontakt Player instrument, meaning that you do not need to own the full version of Kontakt to use it"

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Grazilerimba] #2744411
06/14/18 01:24 PM
06/14/18 01:24 PM
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Gabriel Hikaru Offline OP
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Honestly, I'm not so sure how much I like the sound. It does sounds nice, but it doesn't sound exactly like a typical Steinway. On the other hand. Production Voices Concert Grand Compact sounds very much like the Steinways I've played in real life, so I'm still waiting for the full version.

I do like the low entry barrier to Embertone's Steinway though. It's cheaper than a lot of virtual pianos.

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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2744502
06/14/18 07:11 PM
06/14/18 07:11 PM
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karvala Offline
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Do they really have just four demos, two of which have a lot of other nonsense mixed in and another one of which has rather a lot of reverb, leaving essentially one demo? Or have I missed some somewhere?


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2744634
06/15/18 07:49 AM
06/15/18 07:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
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They're supposed to update the site with more demos soon.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2744669
06/15/18 11:43 AM
06/15/18 11:43 AM
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Here's the VI-Control thread which will give you more info and the developer is active on.

https://vi-control.net/community/th...955-steinway-d.72492/page-2#post-4244282

Wanted to add the intro pricing available for ~next 2 weeks.

Lite - $34
Full - $89
Full/all mics - $149

Last edited by bsntn99; 06/15/18 11:49 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745323
06/18/18 12:17 PM
06/18/18 12:17 PM
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Demos for the individual mic perspectives and a really nice walk-through video for both the full and lite versions. Lite version demo is near the end of the video. Note this is a Kontakt Player compatible library, so you do not need the full version.

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/embertone-releases-walker-1955-steinway-d.72492/page-6

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745350
06/18/18 02:09 PM
06/18/18 02:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
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DeskDesign Offline
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Lovely tone!
Not a fan of the high's.
Bass register seems a tad constrained, but I'm guessing that's the instrument.
Overall it makes a good impression though, I might go for this one sooner or later.

Last edited by DeskDesign; 06/18/18 02:09 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745354
06/18/18 02:38 PM
06/18/18 02:38 PM
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Embertone Steinway D vs new incoming Production voices Steinway D ? Ah, can`t wait to compare. One point taken from Embertone because there is no half pedal.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745356
06/18/18 02:50 PM
06/18/18 02:50 PM
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Bought the full version. It does have a lovely tone with depth. It sounds organic and you can hear all the mechanical tinkles when you play soft velocites. Bass is balanced, not thunderous like Ivory American D but it's enough. It's a very different piano from Ivory. It has character and "dirt".

BUT, here's my problem with it:

I'm not happy with the playability at all. When i play it, i feel that there's a disconnection from it, it's like i'm playing it through someone else's hands (as creepy as that sounds). It feels like latency but technically it's not because i'm playing it on 128 buffer and 2 ms which is the setting i use for all my pianos and they all feel just perfect with this setting.

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 06/18/18 02:51 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745388
06/18/18 05:10 PM
06/18/18 05:10 PM
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Just magical. Best sampled Steinway in my book.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YLhZz80yOZY

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: tdwctdwc] #2745391
06/18/18 05:19 PM
06/18/18 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I'm not happy with the playability at all. When i play it, i feel that there's a disconnection from it, it's like i'm playing it through someone else's hands (as creepy as that sounds). It feels like latency but technically it's not because i'm playing it on 128 buffer and 2 ms which is the setting i use for all my pianos and they all feel just perfect with this setting.


I really like the tone of this piano. From what you have written its similar to my experience with the Piano In Blue library which I purchased a few years ago. Its also the reason I wasn't interested in the follow up CinePiano and the recent Light and Sound Steinway despite all of them sounding very nice.

Just out of interest, which audio interface are you using ?

Last edited by Jay017; 06/18/18 05:21 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745393
06/18/18 05:24 PM
06/18/18 05:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
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Erard Offline
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I'm not happy with the playability at all. When i play it, i feel that there's a disconnection from it, it's like i'm playing it through someone else's hands (as creepy as that sounds). It feels like latency but technically it's not because i'm playing it on 128 buffer and 2 ms which is the setting i use for all my pianos and they all feel just perfect with this setting.

It does sound like latency the way you describe it...

Can you try using the 64 samples buffer just to see if the connection is better, even if you may have some pops and clicks?
If it's better, then it's possibly an added latency in the VSTi - if not, then it's something else - and we can exclude a built-in latency within the plugin itself.
Hope this makes sense.


Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: -Jay-] #2745401
06/18/18 05:54 PM
06/18/18 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay017
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I'm not happy with the playability at all. When i play it, i feel that there's a disconnection from it, it's like i'm playing it through someone else's hands (as creepy as that sounds). It feels like latency but technically it's not because i'm playing it on 128 buffer and 2 ms which is the setting i use for all my pianos and they all feel just perfect with this setting.


I really like the tone of this piano. From what you have written its similar to my experience with the Piano In Blue library which I purchased a few years ago. Its also the reason I wasn't interested in the follow up CinePiano and the recent Light and Sound Steinway despite all of them sounding very nice.

Just out of interest, which audio interface are you using ?

I'm using Focusrite 18i20, 48 KHZ 24 bit 128 buffer 2 ms. I used to play with 64 buffer, but with my newly acquired VSL CFX i had to go up to 128 and i kept it that way hence it didn't bother me at all.

It seems that you know exactly what i mean. It's hard to describe really. But i think it's psychological to be honest, it's all head games, maybe because the sound of those pianos is not pensive enough in the mid ranges so we get that impression. I don't know.

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 06/18/18 05:55 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Erard] #2745404
06/18/18 05:59 PM
06/18/18 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Erard
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I'm not happy with the playability at all. When i play it, i feel that there's a disconnection from it, it's like i'm playing it through someone else's hands (as creepy as that sounds). It feels like latency but technically it's not because i'm playing it on 128 buffer and 2 ms which is the setting i use for all my pianos and they all feel just perfect with this setting.

It does sound like latency the way you describe it...

Can you try using the 64 samples buffer just to see if the connection is better, even if you may have some pops and clicks?
If it's better, then it's possibly an added latency in the VSTi - if not, then it's something else - and we can exclude a built-in latency within the plugin itself.
Hope this makes sense.

I played again on 128 and on 64. it's not as bad as before anymore (that's why i think it's mainly in my head) BUT it's still not as "immediate" as all other libraries i have ( Keyscape C7, Ivory ACD, VSL CFX, Ravenscroft, Garritan CFX etc).

I think it's the tone of the piano in the mid ranges that is giving me that impression. I don't know.

Alex from Embertone seems to play it at 512 buffer and 10 ms. I wish i can do the same but for me anything above 128 starts to bother me (delay wise).

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 06/18/18 06:02 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745466
06/18/18 09:22 PM
06/18/18 09:22 PM
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I find it’s eminently playable (and I do have those other libraries) on a medium Mac (i7 2.6GHz) but of course an SSD would be preferable for such a detailed grand.
As sampled Steinways go, it’s way ahead. A product of sheer love.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Fleer] #2745525
06/19/18 02:33 AM
06/19/18 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleer
I find it’s eminently playable (and I do have those other libraries) on a medium Mac (i7 2.6GHz) but of course an SSD would be preferable for such a detailed grand.
As sampled Steinways go, it’s way ahead. A product of sheer love.

I have 2 Samsung Evo 850 SSD in my system. They run every single piano like a dream.

Anyway, I no longe feel disconnected. Turned out it was an issue with the volume since the default patches are too low for me. So I raised the volume in kontakt to around +1.4 and everything is fine now.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Fleer] #2745533
06/19/18 03:54 AM
06/19/18 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleer
I find it’s eminently playable (and I do have those other libraries) on a medium Mac (i7 2.6GHz) but of course an SSD would be preferable for such a detailed grand.
As sampled Steinways go, it’s way ahead. A product of sheer love.

Do you feel that half pedal is missing a lot ? This is my main concern, still thinking what to do.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Fleer] #2745593
06/19/18 10:59 AM
06/19/18 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleer
I find it’s eminently playable (and I do have those other libraries) on a medium Mac (i7 2.6GHz) but of course an SSD would be preferable for such a detailed grand.
As sampled Steinways go, it’s way ahead. A product of sheer love.

Ah.... once again a new piano library comes out and it's the next best thing after sliced bread.
After some really bad choices i made in the past, reading far to many forums and reviews i really have to be more carefull..... althaugh it's difficult at times.
You claim 'it's way ahead as sampled Steinways goes', but you will probably make the same remarks next week/month when Production Voices will release their full fledged Steinway libraries..
You seem to really like both the Bechstein vst and The Wavesfactory Mercury a lot, but i still have to hear something online to my liking.
There are only two libraries i really liked hearing the online examples and video's.. those are the Garritan CFX full and the CinePiano (btw a Steinway )
Both purchases didn't dissapoint..... to the contrary !
And those other libraries take to much space on my SSD, but cost me to much money to delete them all..for now that is...
I like what i hear from the rare PV Steinway examples.

I will safe some real space on my SSD for the gold version of PV Steinway and remove every library i do not like in the process.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: pianistje] #2745619
06/19/18 12:11 PM
06/19/18 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pianistje
Originally Posted by Fleer
I find it’s eminently playable (and I do have those other libraries) on a medium Mac (i7 2.6GHz) but of course an SSD would be preferable for such a detailed grand.
As sampled Steinways go, it’s way ahead. A product of sheer love.

I will safe some real space on my SSD for the gold version of PV Steinway and remove every library i do not like in the process.

I wouldn't be so in a hurry for that if i were you. I wasn't impressed with the Compact version which i own(ed) before deleting it 2 days later. The piano sounds dull, gray and has no character. But to be fair, the compact version is only one mic perspective. Still, proceed with caution.

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 06/19/18 12:12 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745621
06/19/18 12:20 PM
06/19/18 12:20 PM
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I bought it, and my first impression is that I'm not satisfied with it at all. Haven't spent much time with it and already some things are bothering me. There's this one note that is sticking out really badly, B4. Feels like something is wrong with it, it's considerably more tinny or metallic, and also louder. I tried making a demo of it:

https://instaud.io/2kLt

My playing isn't that even in the clip and I think you can still hear it.
I would say that this is very noticeable, I could hear it after a minute or so of playing. Why does the developer not notice this?

The other thing that bothered me was that repedaling was extremely unforgiving and basically non existent. A lot of other pianos that don't feature repedaling are also annoying to play but here, I noticed it straight away.

Also I got some pretty bad CPU overload with this. Kontakt would frequently give me a red symbol in the CPU status screen, and I'd get cutouts. The only other pianos that ever gave me issues with CPU in a similar manner are the Bechstein Digital and the VSL CFX.

So yeah, I have only spent a few minutes with this and still need to give it some more time, but my first impression is definitely not good.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2745625
06/19/18 12:55 PM
06/19/18 12:55 PM
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Oh man, you just catch me at my door, I was ready to go into bank to put my money for it, before I leave I read your post and now what ? On every site I read only good things for this piano. What version you bought it ?

Last edited by slobajudge; 06/19/18 01:01 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: slobajudge] #2745627
06/19/18 01:02 PM
06/19/18 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Oh man, you just catch me at my door, I was ready to go into bank to put my money for it, before I leave I read your post and now what ? On every site I read only good things for this piano. What version you have it ?


Hi, oh I'm sorry about that. If you are in doubt, then just disregard what I said. I tend to notice things that a lot of other people don't care about at all. I also wonder why nobody else in this thread mentioned that note that sticks out. Perhaps it isn't that much of a big deal? To me it is, but seems like it isn't to a lot of others. Anyway, I'd love to hear your opinion on it once you buy it.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: tdwctdwc] #2745628
06/19/18 01:03 PM
06/19/18 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I wouldn't be so in a hurry for that if i were you. I wasn't impressed with the Compact version which i own(ed) before deleting it 2 days later. The piano sounds dull, gray and has no character. But to be fair, the compact version is only one mic perspective. Still, proceed with caution.


For clarity purposes, are these sound observations related only to the Compact version? Do you have contrasting comments for the full version?

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: newer player] #2745630
06/19/18 01:12 PM
06/19/18 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
I wouldn't be so in a hurry for that if i were you. I wasn't impressed with the Compact version which i own(ed) before deleting it 2 days later. The piano sounds dull, gray and has no character. But to be fair, the compact version is only one mic perspective. Still, proceed with caution.


For clarity purposes, are these sound observations related only to the Compact version? Do you have contrasting comments for the full version?

Even one mic position should be enough to hear basic sound of piano and bring some conclusions, If it`s not good then there is a big risk to put money on it. Full version comes next month.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Grazilerimba] #2745631
06/19/18 01:15 PM
06/19/18 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Oh man, you just catch me at my door, I was ready to go into bank to put my money for it, before I leave I read your post and now what ? On every site I read only good things for this piano. What version you have it ?


Hi, oh I'm sorry about that. If you are in doubt, then just disregard what I said. I tend to notice things that a lot of other people don't care about at all. I also wonder why nobody else in this thread mentioned that note that sticks out. Perhaps it isn't that much of a big deal? To me it is, but seems like it isn't to a lot of others. Anyway, I'd love to hear your opinion on it once you buy it.

For this day you made it, I take my shoes off smile frown

Last edited by slobajudge; 06/19/18 01:17 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Grazilerimba] #2745643
06/19/18 02:04 PM
06/19/18 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba


Also I got some pretty bad CPU overload with this. Kontakt would frequently give me a red symbol in the CPU status screen, and I'd get cutouts. The only other pianos that ever gave me issues with CPU in a similar manner are the Bechstein Digital and the VSL CFX.


Some things to help regarding CPU overload and cut-offs:

- Make sure multi-core option is ON in Kontakt and choose your number.
- Set "killing voices" to disabled
- Batch re-save.
- Increase the number of max voices in kontakt. It's set to only 100 voices which is too low for such a massive piano with so many release samples. I would say set it around 400. This will depend on your playing style, you can set it lower if you want. Just play your most "demanding" piece and see how many voices you're maxing out and set it accordingly.

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 06/19/18 02:12 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: pianistje] #2745645
06/19/18 02:07 PM
06/19/18 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pianistje
Originally Posted by Fleer
I find it’s eminently playable (and I do have those other libraries) on a medium Mac (i7 2.6GHz) but of course an SSD would be preferable for such a detailed grand.
As sampled Steinways go, it’s way ahead. A product of sheer love.

Ah.... once again a new piano library comes out and it's the next best thing after sliced bread.
After some really bad choices i made in the past, reading far to many forums and reviews i really have to be more carefull..... althaugh it's difficult at times.
You claim 'it's way ahead as sampled Steinways goes', but you will probably make the same remarks next week/month when Production Voices will release their full fledged Steinway libraries..
You seem to really like both the Bechstein vst and The Wavesfactory Mercury a lot, but i still have to hear something online to my liking.
There are only two libraries i really liked hearing the online examples and video's.. those are the Garritan CFX full and the CinePiano (btw a Steinway )
Both purchases didn't dissapoint..... to the contrary !
And those other libraries take to much space on my SSD, but cost me to much money to delete them all..for now that is...
I like what i hear from the rare PV Steinway examples.

I will safe some real space on my SSD for the gold version of PV Steinway and remove every library i do not like in the process.


In my experience as an actual user of way too many piano libraries, BechsteinDigital is the best sampled Bechstein, and Wavesfactory Mercury is the best sampled Fazioli.
As such, this Embertone Walker 1955 is the best sampled Steinway I know.
Will the ProductionVoices one beat this? We'll have to see. I do love their Yamaha, though, and find it much better than the Garritan CFX, although I will join you on the CinePiano. That's a special one as well and very, very good. A character piano in Piano-in-Blue style.
Yet, as for now, with all six mic settings, the Embertone rules.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Fleer] #2745656
06/19/18 03:16 PM
06/19/18 03:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
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Originally Posted by Fleer

In my experience as an actual user of way too many piano libraries, BechsteinDigital is the best sampled Bechstein, and Wavesfactory Mercury is the best sampled Fazioli.

From all the current top brands, modern Bechsteins seem to have abbandoned their unique character, so present in the Bechstein golden era of the past., ... the most.
In the eighties the company was almost bankrupt and the brand name went through some incarnations behind the scenes.
The modern Bechstein sounds like a modern and dominant grand piano and nothing like the defuse and romantic character and sometimes accompagnied by weird overtones that were exemplary in older Bechsteins.
The Bechstein vst sounds bright and somewhat cold and has a timbre that i do not classify as classic Bechstein like, more Zimmermann' ish !!!!
That alone is enough to dismiss the Bechstein vst as the best Bechstein virtual piano ever.

I personally think Fazioli has upper harmonics without to much character..... very clean.
That doesn't mean i do not like a Fazioli in real life, because i do, but likewise with Bösendorfer, the real ones are difficult to capture in a sampling session and seem to loose more than Steinways and Yamahas when sampled.
Quote

As such, this Embertone Walker 1955 is the best sampled Steinway I know.
Will the ProductionVoices one beat this? We'll have to see. I do love their Yamaha, though, and find it much better than the Garritan CFX, although I will join you on the CinePiano. That's a special one as well and very, very good. A character piano in Piano-in-Blue style.
Yet, as for now, with all six mic settings, the Embertone rules.

I do not think the PV C7 is much better than the Garritan CFX...the PV C7 is very well sampled indeed, but the sampled grand is a C7 in all it's plunkyness at times.
The CFX is a much, much better grand piano and i cannot fault Garritan for not capturing the sound, warmth and overall character of the CFX in the Abbey Road studio.
To the contrary and i am not alone here.

But you are entitled to your opinions and taste of course and please share your opinion.
But what i try to tell is that their is no best vst , because we all want something different.

Last edited by pianistje; 06/19/18 03:19 PM.
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