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Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2741621
06/02/18 05:22 PM
06/02/18 05:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 684
Louisiana, USA
swampwiz Offline
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Louisiana, USA
I was a proud Charles Walter 1520 owner before it got wet, and I was quite pleased with it, aside from always having to get bass strings replaced, but that was because I have a "heavy hand" on the bass. However, over the years I've seen some used CWs that i was not impressed with at all; they were like a different piano than the one I had.

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Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: Rickster] #2741623
06/02/18 05:28 PM
06/02/18 05:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 684
Louisiana, USA
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Louisiana, USA
Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by GC13
I had a major billing issue with Sprint about a year ago over an iPhone 7 rebate they were not going to honor b/c of a computer system issue even though I had clear documentation that I qualified for the program. However, I got quick attention when I notified them that I was going to one of our local "On Your Side" TV News reporters! thumb

Not to get off on a tangent here, but I did this once also. When my wife had brain surgery to remove a brain tumor 21 years ago, she ended up severely disabled due to the trauma of the surgery. She was in the Shepherd Center Brain Injury unit in Atlanta for about 3 months for physical rehabilitation. When she was released, they gave her this basic manual wheel chair that probably cost $300. My insurance paid $1700 toward the wheelchair, and the wheelchair company (which I'll not name) kept sending me bills for the wheelchair, that the insurance company stopped paying on after they had paid $1700.

I called the wheelchair company, and they said their records showed we had a power wheel chair. I told them their records were wayyy wrong. They kept sending me bills for the $300 wheelchair that my insurance company paid $1700 for, and they wanted more. I called the president of the wheelchair company and threatened to call the local Atlanta TV investigative reporters about the case, and the guy told me over the phone that we would not receive any more bills, and they would take care of it...

Moral of the story? The TV news investigative/consumer reporters (or the threat thereof) can usually get action where common sense communication can't.

I'm not saying this is an option in this particular case, but it could be.

Rick

I've learned that the way to handle any medical billing issue is to simply file a complaint with the state department of insurance. Of course, this type of complaining works with a whole lot of other businesses as well. Businesses do not want to deal with regulators; why do you think they always support the party that wants to deregulate everything?

Last edited by swampwiz; 06/02/18 05:29 PM.
Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2742408
06/05/18 10:40 PM
06/05/18 10:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,776
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Retsacnal Online content

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I'm glad to hear that there's been some movement. Funny that now the dealer wants to move fast. wink Funny too that he remembers the piano so well that an "ok" pin block stands out in his memory! laugh I suspect most of this talk is face-saving gobbledygook, but no matter, as long as you get satisfaction. Good luck. Keep us informed! thumb

Last edited by Retsacnal; 06/05/18 10:41 PM.

"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2742871
06/07/18 03:58 PM
06/07/18 03:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 652
Minneapolis
SonatainfSharp Offline OP
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So, I am still trying to process what happened, but my piano is now the best CW upright I have ever heard or played. Let's see how long it lasts. smile

Dealer sent a different tech out, and *all he did was tune and voice the piano*, and now everything is wonderful. He doesn't understand the original assessment of strings being bad, and he loved how the pinblock is set. He knows how great the previous techs were and respects them very highly, so he was confused about the whole situation, too.

To tune the piano, he had an extended wrench that made the stiff tuners work just fine, and when he voiced the hammers, he was careful about voicing only *parts* of hammers, and the piano was in tune when he left!

He said it's the best playing CW he has ever played and loved the sound, as most of them can get muffled or muddy, but not this one. He commented on how great the action was several times, and he loved that there was a lot he could do to the voicing. He played it while I stood some distance away, and you would think I had a small high-end grand in my house. I almost cried! (Okay, maybe I did cry a bit. This has been a very long journey for something that shouldn't have been so difficult.)

After having the best techs come look at the piano and not even able to leave with it in tune, then to have this tech do what I would consider relatively normal service to the piano, I am completely baffled by what has been happening the past 18 months. I feel really dumb now about posting my long original post, BUT it took 18 months to get my piano to be playable, as well as many, many phone calls, emails, and several techs, so I guess I shouldn't be too hard on myself, especially because this is all what I would have thought was normal stuff to do as the piano would break in over the first year (or several).

Now that it sounds amazing, I am hoping it stays in tune for more than a day or two! I will have the same tech continue to service the piano, and he will make adjustments as needed. He did say that some pianos are not worth doing much to, but this one is definitely worth putting in all the effort he can. There is one 'A' that still sounds a bit funny to me, and the bad 'F' I have talked about from the beginning is better but not perfect, but I also understand that hand-made pianos can't possibly be perfect, nor would you want it to be, I s'pose. Plus the piano will forever change over time anyway for the rest of its life, but finally, after all this time, I feel like the piano is at a great, usable, starting point!

Thanks for the support in this thread. I still can't believe all the work I had to do to have someone just pause and look at the piano for an hour, but now it's done, and you can expect my annoying posts of constant Charles Walter fan-boi praise to resume on these forums! smile


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!
Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony [2017]
Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2742973
06/08/18 07:07 AM
06/08/18 07:07 AM
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That's very interesting. I'm glad there's a happy outcome. Keep us posted on how it goes over the nest few months.

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2743071
06/08/18 02:39 PM
06/08/18 02:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,766
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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This is good news! The real test will be over the next couple of weeks as the humidity changes a bit and you play vigorously on it. It may be that your ear is particularly sensitive to slightly wavy unisons.

Do you have good humidity control in this piano?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
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Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: P W Grey] #2743193
06/09/18 08:29 AM
06/09/18 08:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 652
Minneapolis
SonatainfSharp Offline OP
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Minneapolis
Originally Posted by P W Grey

Do you have good humidity control in this piano?

Pwg

I have the Dampp Chaser in the piano (from the day it was delivered) as well as keeping the studio itself as close to 46% as possible. It is climbing up a bit now because I have to change over my hardware in the studio space and I have been enjoying open windows (nice for humans; impossible for humidity control), but it will be held at 46% again soon. I did let it climb to 61% for a day or two, but that's not going to ruin anything.

I've done research and re-research over time and have settled on 46% because it is a good compromise between what the piano wants and what my 9 guitars want.

The tech that came out was the dealer's CW guy. This guy seems to know more about CW than the company itself, and he loves the super tight pinblock, he knows both actions as though he designed them, etc. I don't think he is actually from my area, but he said to make sure that he services the piano going forward, at least for a while. I just have to schedule enough ahead of time so that I can catch him as he is passing through to other customers when he makes his rounds.


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!
Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony [2017]
Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2743210
06/09/18 10:27 AM
06/09/18 10:27 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,919
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
[...]

The tech that came out was the dealer's CW guy. This guy seems to know more about CW than the company itself, and he loves the super tight pinblock, he knows both actions as though he designed them, etc. I don't think he is actually from my area, but he said to make sure that he services the piano going forward, at least for a while. [...]


If you love your piano as much as most of us love ours, you have made a good move. We have to learn to accept that our happiness and the well-being of our piano depends upon a comfortable, stable and long-term ménage à trois: us, our piano and our technician.

Cheers!



BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2744382
06/14/18 10:54 AM
06/14/18 10:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 652
Minneapolis
SonatainfSharp Offline OP
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SonatainfSharp  Offline OP
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Minneapolis
Is there a way that the mods can add something like "[Resolved]" to the end of this thread title in case others come across this thread in the future and don't bother to read the whole thing, instead seeing the current title and drawing conclusions?


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!
Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony [2017]
Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2744413
06/14/18 12:29 PM
06/14/18 12:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,110
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
Is there a way that the mods can add something like "[Resolved]" to the end of this thread title in case others come across this thread in the future and don't bother to read the whole thing, instead seeing the current title and drawing conclusions?

Yes. Email them and ask them.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2744746
06/15/18 06:32 PM
06/15/18 06:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,805
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
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San Jose, CA
What a puzzling thread. So many people asserting the opposite of what so many others say. In general, Charles Walter puts out a really nice product, with very few people voicing complaints. But, the piano business is like any other endeavor operated by human beings: there is no such thing as being 100% perfect. There will be those times when an oversight will have to be seen to, or that day someone with a migraine, or after a fight with the wife, came to work anyway.

And, there is no such thing as an acoustic piano which requires no care and maintenance, although there are a lot that get exactly that: nothing. If I remember the now-distant beginning of this thread, it was about a brand-new piano, which normal tuners could not bring into proper adjustment or tune. It suggests that a tuner is not what is needed, but rather a piano technician who can diagnose, repair, adjust, regulate, and voice. And the first year of a piano's life is not the time to hold back on the juice. Four "tunings," maybe more. Get your new family member off to a good start, properly settled into a state of proper tune, regulation, and voice. By the second or third year, you might cut down to three, and less than two a year is an engraved invitation to bad things, saying "I don't care anymore."

It's not like it's that expensive. But like your own health, staying well is cheaper and also more fun than getting well. Give your nice new piano the gift of qualified professional care, and give yourself the gift of playing it a lot, learning new things about music, and enjoying the delight of playing and hearing this modest, but very fine, instrument, finer than anything to be heard in the royal houses of Europe in the early days of the piano, which by craft and by its own nature has settled down according to the way YOU touch the keys.

For, not only do you get better at playing the piano; it gets better at playing you.

Here's wishing you both the best! You are very close to having it.

Clef

PS: Right. Where to find this well-qualified person. Try http://ptg.org for a recommendation of a tech in your area. If you come up empty, I believe the Piano Technicians' Guild's president has contact information; give 'em a try. I have known of this to work out.


Clef

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2764463
09/10/18 06:52 AM
09/10/18 06:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 2
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Daniel Dance Offline
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Good morning,

I wanted to add to this thread that I had a very similar problem with my Charles Walter Studio Upright.

This new studio upright was my second Charles Walter piano (I have two houses), and was purchased a couple of years ago. The piano was also personally signed by Charles Walter. Usually, the pianos are signed by his sons.

Since the first tuning, the piano technician has difficulty getting a proper tune on the piano. During each subsequent tuning, the problem worsened. A number of pins were extremely difficult to turn and when they did turn, they would "jump" too far, which made tuning extremely difficult and near impossible. As said before, the problem got worse with each tuning.

In July of 2017, I made my first calls to Charles Walter asking for technical or warranty support.

In each call, I spoke with Rachel Walter and she told me Mr. Walter would get back to me. Well, to make long stories short, many calls and many months later, I still never received a call back. Nearly 6 months later, I found out that Mr. Walter had some medical issues and was in and out of the hospital. That could explain the reason for the lack of call backs and why the OP in this thread had difficulty getting a response from CW.

More phone calls and more months passed. Still nothing. I had a brief call with Mr. Walter in the early summer, (nearly a year later), and he told me he would get back to me, but never did.

In July 2018 (one year later), I filed formal complaints with the Indiana Better Business Bureau and left a scathing Google review on the Charles Walter website. In two days, I got a response from Rachel stating that she spoke with Cunningham Piano in Philadelphia (where I purchased piano originally), and they were going to pick-up the piano for warranty repair.

The piano was picked up in July 2018, but then after numerous calls with Cunningham, found out that Cunningham was still going back and forth with Charles Walter to agree on what needed to be repaired and the cost. That was finally resolved a couple of weeks ago.

My piano is still at Cunningham, and hopefully will be returned to me by the end of September 2018.

Overall, I've been very disappointed with Charles Walter and this will probably be my last piano I purchase from them. They always had a great reputation for being a family owned business with excellent support, but taking over a year to resolve this warranty issue is just too long in my books. Granted, this could be due to ongoing health issues with the owner, Mr. Charles Walter (and wish him the best for a speedy and continued recovery), but in his absence, someone else in the company should have stepped up to handle this.

Daniel

(Addition: One thing I should mention is that Cunningham Piano in Philadelphia used to be the regions primary distributor for Charles Walter pianos. However, I have learned in recent years that Cunningham is now making their own line of pianos that competes at the same level of the CW pianos and no longer carry the CW brand. So perhaps, this could have caused issues with communication between CW and Cunningham during the warranty repair.)

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2765751
09/15/18 07:11 PM
09/15/18 07:11 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,833
Florida
cmb13 Online content
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Florida
That's really too bad. I came very close to purchasing a CW based on the recommendations of the forum; it's unwise and sad to lose the support of this forum. I hope they get it together.


Boston 118 PE

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Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2765790
09/15/18 11:46 PM
09/15/18 11:46 PM
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Piano90X Offline
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This is why buying a piano freaks me out.

A reputable brand from a reputable dealer and, still . . . kablamy.

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2765809
09/16/18 03:02 AM
09/16/18 03:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,597
Melbourne, Australia
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ando Online content
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Melbourne, Australia
It sounds like Walter might be on its last legs. There have been rumours circulating that they aren't making many pianos anymore and that there are not many dealers left either. It must be hard to turn a profit in the current economic climate with more competition than ever. They don't even visit PW to answer queries about their own business. Now we hear that the owner is in poor health and the other members of the company are engaging in delaying tactics. I'd say you'd be mad to invest in a Water piano at this time - unless it was very cheap and you didn't care if it has no effective warranty.

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2765920
09/16/18 05:00 PM
09/16/18 05:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 678
North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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North Vancouver
I have been reading this and had a similar experience in trying to replace my Yahama u1 with something a little newer .It had been a long time since I had bought a piano and found this shop with all these shining used mostly Yamaha pianos some were in styles I had not seen before .To make a long story shorter we ended up buying a Yahama yu10 which was about 8 years old .It was explained to that the piano was the same as a U1 only meant for Japan, but fully refirbished which meant reconditioned .The piano which I fell in love with started going out of tune ,and the action was becoming truly weird .Notes in chords would not sound ,there were double strikes , you could know longer play soft .After getting my technician in .He looked inside ,said something about the Jack and other techical things , but was afraid to pull things out .He sent a report to the dealer and we insisted on a refund .The dealer eventually complied but we lost some money .After that experience I realised all my mistakes in buying a used piano without having it checked out with my technician .We ended buying a new Sauter piano that had been in the shop a few months and that I really liked .The tuning is stable ,the tone and touch is all that it should be .To the op PERSIST in contacting the dealer he will eventually give you a new piano .What Norbert suggests makes good sense.

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2765926
09/16/18 05:53 PM
09/16/18 05:53 PM
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huaidongxi Offline
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Lady Bird, which model of Sauter (upright ?) did you end up with ? was it in a similar price tier as new yamaha or kawai uprights in their equivalent models ? thanks.

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2765931
09/16/18 06:28 PM
09/16/18 06:28 PM
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North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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North Vancouver
Sorry for not reading the 2nd page of this thread ,
maybe new troubled pianos can be cured by by good technicians .Good luck to the op with piano .Huaidongxi , we just decided on getting the Sauter as a retirement gift to ourselves .It was a big leap from getting a new Yahama u1 .It is a Sauter 130 in shining ebony and we adore the rich singing tone .I read a lot in pianoworld about Sauter pianos all positive ,so we are happy !

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2765950
09/16/18 08:15 PM
09/16/18 08:15 PM
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Lady Bird Offline
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The original price for the Sauter 130 we bought was the price mentioned in piano brands ,Piano Buyer but in Canadian $ See the model marked Sonder 130 ,with Sostenuto pedal .,The music store had a sale however shortly after my awful experience with the Yamaha yu10 .The Sauter 130 was brought down to a price where we felt we could afford it ,well only just ! However it's paid for now and we both love the piano.

Re: My Charles Walter Woes (Not a Typo) [Re: SonatainfSharp] #2765980
09/17/18 02:26 AM
09/17/18 02:26 AM
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huaidongxi Offline
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from all the accounts folks have related here and elsewhere, your sauter is one of the finest uprights among all the fine German and Austrian pianos. they are scarcely found in the u.s., so have yet to touch one, myself. thanks for sharing the happy ending and enjoy a healthy, music filled retirement.

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