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Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 #2744154
06/13/18 02:41 PM
06/13/18 02:41 PM
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Tom Fort Offline OP
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Last edited by Tom Fort; 06/13/18 02:47 PM. Reason: added info
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Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744157
06/13/18 02:59 PM
06/13/18 02:59 PM
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Also: "Offer until 30 June: Buy the new Steingraeber E-272 instrument pack and get 50% discount on one additional instrument pack of your choice."

And Pianoteq 6.2 available.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: ArtlessArt] #2744179
06/13/18 03:55 PM
06/13/18 03:55 PM
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Frédéric L Offline
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Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Also: "Offer until 30 June: Buy the new Steingraeber E-272 instrument pack and get 50% discount on one additional instrument pack of your choice."


I was too hurry to buy mine, and didn’t see the discount.

No promotional code was sent to me : I should have buy two instruments in the same order.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Frédéric L] #2744181
06/13/18 04:02 PM
06/13/18 04:02 PM
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EPW Online content
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Also: "Offer until 30 June: Buy the new Steingraeber E-272 instrument pack and get 50% discount on one additional instrument pack of your choice."


I was too hurry to buy mine, and didn’t see the discount.

No promotional code was sent to me : I should have buy two instruments in the same order.


Please inform us what you like and don't like about it smile

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Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744184
06/13/18 04:06 PM
06/13/18 04:06 PM
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Boston/Cambridge
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It's wonderful. Seems to combine the subdued character of a Blüthner with the strength of a Steinway D. And there's the Mozart Rail. Simply wonderful.
Pianoteq has upped the ante once again smile

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: EPW] #2744188
06/13/18 04:24 PM
06/13/18 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by EPW
Please inform us what you like and don't like about it smile


I do feel better a « real » piano sound with its complexity. Although I have found other Pianoteq a little synthetic (and prefer sampled piano for this reason), this one pass the bar (then I was in hurry to buy it)

I have read that other pianos have been (freely) upgraded.

I think the free demo is worth a try with this piano.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744194
06/13/18 04:50 PM
06/13/18 04:50 PM
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Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744232
06/13/18 08:38 PM
06/13/18 08:38 PM
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nice, this is the first time in my life that I liked the pianoteq sound.

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744267
06/13/18 11:09 PM
06/13/18 11:09 PM
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Same here. I'll try it. But even at 50% off, I don't think I'd buy any of their older ones, they just don't work for me. Even for the version of Pianoteq I'd buy to run this new piano, I'd pick the one that comes with the EPs, which I'd probably find a use for before the two grands that come with the "piano" version. But wow, this new one sounds impressive.

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Frédéric L] #2744284
06/14/18 12:30 AM
06/14/18 12:30 AM
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Tom Fort Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Also: "Offer until 30 June: Buy the new Steingraeber E-272 instrument pack and get 50% discount on one additional instrument pack of your choice."


I was too hurry to buy mine, and didn’t see the discount.

No promotional code was sent to me : I should have buy two instruments in the same order.


If you talk to Modartt’s customer service I am confident they could offer you the 50% off discount separately. They have been quite responsive when I have interacted with them in the past.

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744306
06/14/18 04:05 AM
06/14/18 04:05 AM
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I play it this morning after I play new VSL CFX and my first impression it is probably the best Pianoteq piano instrument. I like the sound very much. Let the time tell the rest.

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744311
06/14/18 05:09 AM
06/14/18 05:09 AM
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......did you prefer it over the VSL CFX?

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Pete14] #2744315
06/14/18 05:49 AM
06/14/18 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
......did you prefer it over the VSL CFX?

Because it is Pianoteq and earlier we have a hard debate about modeling vs sampling so I stop comparing this two. People love to choose sides and then wrote hard words against the opposite that leads nowhere. So, different approach, different instruments. I love both and enjoy both for different reasons smile

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744317
06/14/18 05:54 AM
06/14/18 05:54 AM
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@Frederic, I'm sure if you contact Pianoteq they will offer you the discount after you've made the purchase. The contact person (Niclas) was very helpful each time I contacted them and a pleasure to talk with. I really enjoyed their customer service!

I can't wait to try it. The constant updating and the possibility to buy new instruments is one of the best parts about Pianoteq! And I also love the very small footprint, loading speed, auto-recording function (this beside the playability which is it's well-known strength and the sound placement which immerses me like I'm in front of the real thing!).

And last, but not least, I see Phil has upgraded his piano. Until now he was playing on an FP90. But if I'm not mistaken, he stuck to the PHA50 action - I think that's a polished ebony HP605. I wonder if it's purely by preference towards the action or there are other reasons as well behind this choice.

EDIT: I didn't watch the whole video yet. He mentions it at around 3:15 that he really likes the action, that it feel really similar to Steinway. It's funny, I had the same feeling a couple of years ago in a large music shop that had several brands (Steinway, Boesendorfer, Yamaha and more uprights and digitals).

Last edited by mcoll; 06/14/18 05:59 AM.
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744320
06/14/18 06:27 AM
06/14/18 06:27 AM
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I don't really get it. I tried it, it was okay, but very similar to the Grotrian. The tone is slightly more focused and less flabby than the Steinway D, for example, and maybe that's what people like? Honestly, though, to me it sounds like a small incremental change at best, and I'm not sure I even prefer over the other Pianoteq instruments.

What am I missing? This is all through headphones; are you guys using speakers/monitors? Are you adjusting the settings in some way? I'm genuinely curious.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744326
06/14/18 07:12 AM
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I gave it a quick try now and I can't say I like it more than the Grotrian Player for daily use. I can see it being an interesting choice for certain music, but for the time being it didn't make it to my wishlist. And I actually fell it's quite different from the Grotrian. Brighter, a little thinner, more responsive, even a little jumpy I'm tempted to say. I feel like I should change the velocity curve for it to feel more controlable.

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744338
06/14/18 08:13 AM
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I'll definitely download the update and check out the new instrument demo. I gotta give it to them that they're pretty much the only VST developer who allows you to actually demo their instrument in a meaningful way, along with Arturia and their PianoV2. (I think some other developer offered you like a single octave as a demo or something? lol)

Anyway, IMHO they should just focus on getting the core piano sound improved. What's the point in releasing instrument upon instrment when the basic sound still has a lot of improvement ahead until it can actually pass as a replacement for a recording? At this pace I'll not experience a modeled piano that satisfies me in my lifetime.

I don't get it, especially considering that with Arturia PianoV2 they finally have some competition which will hopefully improve over time as well.

Oh well, I don't care all that much. Everytime I play Pianoteq and then start up a sampled piano I am so glad that it's over. I wish them all the best and hope that they'll improve on the sound even more, because modeling definitely has a good future.

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Grazilerimba] #2744340
06/14/18 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
I'll definitely download the update and check out the new instrument demo. I gotta give it to them that they're pretty much the only VST developer who allows you to actually demo their instrument in a meaningful way, along with Arturia and their PianoV2. (I think some other developer offered you like a single octave as a demo or something? lol)


VSL let you demo theirs as well for 30 days without restriction if you have bought a Vienna Key (for €24). Not sure about their policy if you already have an elicencer key; it's possible they'll let you demo for free then, but I don't know if that's the case. Without an elicence key, you can also access buy a short demo of all their products for €18. So possibly not free, which is unfortunate, but definitely meaningful.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Grazilerimba] #2744347
06/14/18 09:06 AM
06/14/18 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
What's the point in releasing instrument upon instrument when the basic sound still has a lot of improvement ahead until it can actually pass as a replacement for a recording? At this pace I'll not experience a modeled piano that satisfies me in my lifetime.


They are going for the creative approach because the market is practically empty (only Roland are making hay with Pianoteq):

a) By creating different models of various pianos, they might learn something they otherwise wouldn't have learned if concentrating on improving just the Steinway D. They can then apply these to the other pianos.

b) They are pretty much competing in the modelled piano market successfully with Roland. Roland can offer 1000's of sounds, rhythms, hardware etc that Pianoteq can't. By expanding their instruments, Pianoteq can create markets Roland is not competing with (all the other modelled instruments pianoteq have made other than the Grand Piano) instead of just maximize the existing market.


c) This is the beginning of the piano modelling era---which only kicked off big-time in 2009. When you start off, you're better generating lots of variation because there is less competition in the market.

Compare this idea with open positions in Chess: you might consider 5 different moves only 2 or 3 levels deep in an open position where things are not critical (hanging on a knife edge); whereas, if the position were static during a tight midgame with only a few good candidate moves worth pursuing, you'd more likely attempt to consider 2 moves 5 levels deep.

In the same way, as there is no great competition in the piano modelling market, now is the time to create more products to diversify the market that you're in. When other competitors start to develop serious modelled piano competitors, Pianoteq will then use their greater market share and distribution (as well as resources such as research cash) to invest in improving the quality of all their instruments. That way, having already developed many pianos to a decent standard by evolution, when the time comes to stave off competition, all can be improved for quality leaving competitors far behind.

Look at it this way: when Apple computers was run by Steve Jobs, Apple continually brought out new products rather than sitting on their laurels. Pianoteq are constantly innovating, this way, they can start new markets whilst still pretty much dominating the existing modelled piano VST market.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744350
06/14/18 09:25 AM
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There is an additional thing to consider. It is in principle always possible to increase the sound quality of a modelled piano by increasing the number of calculations involved. This, however, makes greater hardware demands. Since the very low demand on hardware is a selling point for Pianoteq, they most likely do not wish to sacrifice that, merely to bring out better sound quality.

Instead they likely want to wait until their customers have upgraded their hardware, and then unleash the higher quality sound.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28, Pianoteq 6.3
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Grazilerimba] #2744355
06/14/18 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Anyway, IMHO they should just focus on getting the core piano sound improved. What's the point in releasing instrument upon instrment when the basic sound still has a lot of improvement ahead until it can actually pass as a replacement for a recording?

Because a company survives by selling things it can actually produce. You assume that if they put the same man hours into only improving the basic sound, the basic sound would be better, but there's no reason to assume that. For example, they could have some people working on new piano models (which actually bring in new revenue, which is essential) while others work on the underlying engine. (And these could even be different people with different skill sets, such that there would be no real benefit to having the programmers for one project work on the other.) Even if the same people are doing it all, they need revenue streams, and there are many willing buyers for their new piano models. Another possibility is that they may be at about the limit of what they know how to do with the engine, absent some lightbulb moment that cannot be predicted or anticipated. Or as QUF alluded to, maybe their ideas for how to improve would require hardware beyond that of most of their potential customer base. You can't assume that just throwing more resources at something will get you what you're after, nor that resources assigned to project A are necessarily taking resources away from project B. Especially when sales of project A may be helping to finance project B.

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744358
06/14/18 10:22 AM
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I am very picky on piano sound, but I have no gripes with the sound quality of Pianoteq at all.
Another story is the audio interface processing the output by Pianoteq. Only once I had bad sound caused by a poorly configured, cheap audio chip inside an old Thinkpad laptop.
@QuasiUnaFantasia ,
did you actually test Pianoteq with a good audio interface?

Re> simplifiactions:
IMO one of the special skills of the company Pianoteq is, the reduction of the calculation requirements to a minimum, while maintaining the quality of the piano sound.
Imaginge the support nightmare you would face as a company, selling software with very special hardware requirements to the end customer PC market. Commercially, that would only make sense, if the specialized hardware would be offered in a bundle together with the software.
E.g. I could imagine
- a special MacPro Edition or
- a Chord Electronics HUGO 3 with a Pianoteq Platinum version running natively on it ... accompanied with a very exclusive price tag wink




Last edited by lophiomys; 06/14/18 10:22 AM. Reason: typo1
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: QuasiUnaFantasia] #2744359
06/14/18 10:25 AM
06/14/18 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
There is an additional thing to consider. It is in principle always possible to increase the sound quality of a modelled piano by increasing the number of calculations involved. This, however, makes greater hardware demands. Since the very low demand on hardware is a selling point for Pianoteq, they most likely do not wish to sacrifice that, merely to bring out better sound quality.

Instead they likely want to wait until their customers have upgraded their hardware, and then unleash the higher quality sound.


A YT comparison with other more demanding VSTs doesn't necessarily produce a better or more authentic sound from these. Even if it did, would more folk buy it in preference to these others? Maybe many just like PT as it is, like me. A sort of half way house between a good digital and a good acoustic. The best of both, and the worst of neither. AND you can easily discern the difference between the different models offered.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744368
06/14/18 11:00 AM
06/14/18 11:00 AM
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Hi,
those are all great points, didn't consider these things. Thank you for taking the time to write that. Yeah I was under the impression that you can just focus the time and effort you invest into new instruments and put that into improving the algorithm instead. Doesn't seem to be that simple. Perhaps, as time goes by, they'll raise the system requirements and allow for more calculations? "Does it run Pianoteq" will become the new "Does it run Crysis".

I would think that Modartt is already pretty well off as far as their competitive situation goes because their software is among the few piano VSTs that has managed to fend off piracy relatively well, leading to increased sales.

Well, if the market analysis goes like that, and if they are trying to get a good head start ahead of their competition, then I can just hope that the competition will become stronger so we'll get the better product as soon as possioble :p While the PianoV2 feels like a solid piece of software as far as I could see in the demo, Pianoteq still has a more refined sound. Will be interesting to see how this delevops!

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: QuasiUnaFantasia] #2744374
06/14/18 11:28 AM
06/14/18 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
There is an additional thing to consider. It is in principle always possible to increase the sound quality of a modelled piano by increasing the number of calculations involved. This, however, makes greater hardware demands. Since the very low demand on hardware is a selling point for Pianoteq, they most likely do not wish to sacrifice that, merely to bring out better sound quality.

Instead they likely want to wait until their customers have upgraded their hardware, and then unleash the higher quality sound.


I am not sure it is the problem.
As you probably know, every Pianoteq instrument is a pre compiled core. Pianoteq just allows the user to modifie some parameters, but we have no access to the model itself. Once this core model is compiled, the extra calculations remains low.
For comparison, I would say it is something like the "freeze" function on your DAW. You can freeze and play 50 tracks at the same time, the power demand will be very low

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744377
06/14/18 11:47 AM
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I haven't been a huge fan of Pianoteq at all. But the Steingraeber in that video really sounds great!


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744387
06/14/18 12:11 PM
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I tried the demo sample. I think this is the first Pianoteq sample that sounded loud and close. The others always sound far away and soft, but it could be that I need to tweak the microphone placement on those, or use a better soundcard/interface.


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Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2744389
06/14/18 12:16 PM
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Just moved from 6.1 to 6.2 and I think there's a definite sonic improvement. To my tired ears previous versions exhibited something that sounded like IM distortion in the higher registers when multiple notes were played--particularly with the sustain pedal down. This now seems much reduced, with all my previous settings left unchanged.

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: karvala] #2744407
06/14/18 01:16 PM
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EssBrace Offline
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EssBrace  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,556
Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by karvala
I don't really get it. I tried it, it was okay, but very similar to the Grotrian. The tone is slightly more focused and less flabby than the Steinway D, for example, and maybe that's what people like? Honestly, though, to me it sounds like a small incremental change at best, and I'm not sure I even prefer over the other Pianoteq instruments.

What am I missing? This is all through headphones; are you guys using speakers/monitors? Are you adjusting the settings in some way? I'm genuinely curious.


I use headphones. But I don't think that is helping or hindering.

I agree with you entirely. I don't feel it's some kind of leap forward. More of the same to my ears. Not bad. Very playable. But there's still this odd resonant ringing accompanying everything, all the time. It's not nice to my ears. And, like all modelled sounds, if you really smack it in the bass area it's just metallic clanking. Individual notes have that sine wave type of feel.

I occasionally play PT and always use the Grotrian Prelude patch. It's okay - great dynamics. Nice for a change for half an hour. Then I return to a sampled sound and everything falls back into place for me, sonically speaking.

I congratulate PT however on their policy of continuing development. It is edging forward with each update.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraeber E-272 [Re: karvala] #2744412
06/14/18 01:25 PM
06/14/18 01:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 185
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Grazilerimba Offline
Full Member
Grazilerimba  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by karvala
Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
I'll definitely download the update and check out the new instrument demo. I gotta give it to them that they're pretty much the only VST developer who allows you to actually demo their instrument in a meaningful way, along with Arturia and their PianoV2. (I think some other developer offered you like a single octave as a demo or something? lol)


VSL let you demo theirs as well for 30 days without restriction if you have bought a Vienna Key (for €24). Not sure about their policy if you already have an elicencer key; it's possible they'll let you demo for free then, but I don't know if that's the case. Without an elicence key, you can also access buy a short demo of all their products for €18. So possibly not free, which is unfortunate, but definitely meaningful.


Totally missed this post. I didn't know that VSL allows for a demo, that's really nice considering their harsh DRM stuff. The paid demo is also acceptable to me, in the same way as they also offer a hard drive including all the downloadable files, so you don't have to download anything, but it costs you somewhere around 100 dollars or something. I should check out Try Sound, although I hear bad things about its latency in this forum.

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