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Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Colin Miles] #2738574
05/22/18 05:28 AM
05/22/18 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by paf
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Can't see it being fixed without a complete rewrite and by a different programmer/systems analyst. I rather suspect that original person(s) had little experience.

In my opinion and according to my modest software development experience, the worst problem (saving the settings, especially the awful favorites) cannot be difficult to solve and this could be done at very little cost. Even the worst spaghetti-like code can be patched and I don't think that it needs more than a patch to solve my problem with it.
[/list]

Well I have perhaps a little more experience and I think that you will find that if the design is faulty patching can make it worse by introducing unforeseen errors. Think MSDOS and Windows.


The complexity of the software on these DPs lies entirely on the "sound engine", not on the UI. The UI software does nothing else than managing and displaying a set of parameters while interfacing with the sound engine. On these models, the touch display and UI are also running over some version of Android (some of you may have noticed the Android logo while updating the software/firmware). This means that the developers have a number of UI assets already available to support development. I have seen GUI software more complex than this one (i.e. with more use cases and dependencies between the use cases) being fully designed, developed, tested and incrementally refined over a period of 3-4 weeks by a small team of _experienced_ developers.

So, this is not about complexity, cost or development, or time in my opinion but just the repeat of a very classical story in software development. These major DP manufacturers have extensive expertise in DP engineering and in the development of dedicated software around the sound engine. However, the engineering teams working closely with the DPs likely have zero experience developing user interfaces - the development of apps and software lies in different units of such companies or may be even be contracted externally. So, the DP engineering "expert" team believes that programming an entirely new piece of software (the UI in this case) requires absolutely no additional knowledge - after all it is just programming some lines of code. So, the DP experts try to deal with the new software product by themselves with the knowledge they have (for some reason, the new touch screen interface does nothing else than emulating the old button-based interface). After the "expert" team has struggled with the UI development for some months, management starts demanding the product to be released to avoid further costs and delays. At this point it is already too late to bring in external competencies and to design a proper UI. And then we have this GUI released to the market. The worse part of this story is that it will be very hard to ever have a full redesign of the product . Why? Not because of development cost or time. Just because that would mean that the team of DP "experts" would have to admit failure and hand over the work to some other software development team that are not even "DP engineers". I would be surprised if that ever happens...

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Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: arc7urus] #2738592
05/22/18 08:00 AM
05/22/18 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus


Hi! You can indeed regulate the volume and other parameters of each individual key as pointed out already. However, I hear no volume difference between those particular two keys and the neighboring keys on pianist mode and with the pianos in sound mode. I suggest you
check the actual note-on velocity of those keys to rule out any sensor-related issue. You can check the note-on velocity by connecting the CA78 via Bluetooth or USB to an iOS/Android device (free MIDI Wrench app on iOS) or to a PC (download MIDIOX or MIDI Monitor).


Hi arc7urus,

I used Pianoteq for the note-on velocities, and it doesn't seem to be a sensor related issue. Also using headphones confirmed there are no differences in the volume when compared to neighbouring keys. It must be something further along the chain, i.e. speakers emphasising a certain note or two. There are also no differences in volume of D5 and D#5 when using Pianoteq, outputting through JBL 305's (with local sound switched off).


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: ArtlessArt] #2738636
05/22/18 12:05 PM
05/22/18 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Originally Posted by arc7urus


Hi! You can indeed regulate the volume and other parameters of each individual key as pointed out already. However, I hear no volume difference between those particular two keys and the neighboring keys on pianist mode and with the pianos in sound mode. I suggest you
check the actual note-on velocity of those keys to rule out any sensor-related issue. You can check the note-on velocity by connecting the CA78 via Bluetooth or USB to an iOS/Android device (free MIDI Wrench app on iOS) or to a PC (download MIDIOX or MIDI Monitor).

I used Pianoteq for the note-on velocities, and it doesn't seem to be a sensor related issue. Also using headphones confirmed there are no differences in the volume when compared to neighbouring keys. It must be something further along the chain, i.e. speakers emphasising a certain note or two. There are also no differences in volume of D5 and D#5 when using Pianoteq, outputting through JBL 305's (with local sound switched off).


Good to know! It may be some reverberation or resonance coming from the DP's cabinet or environment. I had a similar issue that I sorted out by moving the DP a couple of cms away from the wall. Do you happen to have the "Wall EQ" on? With that setting on I get a lot of cabinet resonance that blurs the sound, but this is likely dependent on the DP placing and surrounding environment.

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2738650
05/22/18 12:50 PM
05/22/18 12:50 PM
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I don't think CA78 has Wall EQ, but I'll try move it around to see if it makes a difference. Will probably do it next week when the tech comes over. Cheers mate.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
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Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2743959
06/12/18 05:53 PM
06/12/18 05:53 PM
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One friend of mine has problems with recording via USB on a CA98. It is already updated to last version.
The UI freezes during the last step, when renaming should be possible. It is not related to the stick model, that has been ruled out.
This happened yet before updating to the last version.
Any ideas?

The screen shows the file name, but tapping on " done" has no effect.

Last edited by mabraman; 06/12/18 05:57 PM.

Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2743986
06/12/18 08:28 PM
06/12/18 08:28 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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mabraman, it's probably best if your friend contacts his/her Kawai dealer/distributor for assistance.

However can you perhaps clarify what you mean by:

Quote
It is not related to the stick model, that has been ruled out.


Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: mabraman] #2744021
06/12/18 11:57 PM
06/12/18 11:57 PM
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I had the same problem.
I unplugged the power cord (power function also froze)
Turned it on and reformatted the USB stick with the piano.
It's still working until now.
The Kawai Support response was not to use large capacity USB stick 4gb or 8gb recommended.
I also tried USB stick with slower transfer rate, it recorded only the first few second.
In my case I was using 16gb with too many files in it.
Capacity, Number of files, and transfer rate is affecting the performance.
I don't know if this works with different USB stick, mine is SanDisk CruzerBlade 16gb.

Cheers!


Let's help each other... laugh
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744036
06/13/18 02:18 AM
06/13/18 02:18 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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For what it's worth, I use a SanDisk Cruiser Fit 16gb, and have never experienced any USB problems with current generation Kawai DPs.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744047
06/13/18 03:44 AM
06/13/18 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
mabraman, it's probably best if your friend contacts his/her Kawai dealer/distributor for assistance.

However can you perhaps clarify what you mean by:

Quote
It is not related to the stick model, that has been ruled out.


Kind regards,
James
x

Sorry for my bad english.
I meant that it doesn´t seem to be a matter of brand, nor capacity of the usb stick, because several models have been already tested: all with the same result. The last step of the recording process (renaming the file and "done") can´t be completed. There's is no response and it enters a closed loop.
I have suggested that he called the vendor to execute his warranty. Also to record internally and try to export that recording to usb, in order to be sure that it's not a hardware problem.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744048
06/13/18 03:49 AM
06/13/18 03:49 AM
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Screenshot. He says that, after this point, there's no way to get done or navigate in any direction.
[img]http://www.entre88teclas.es/foro/download/file.php?id=6914[/img]


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744061
06/13/18 05:21 AM
06/13/18 05:21 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Thank you for the additional info.

I'm unable to see the screenshot, unfortunately. However I'm familiar with the CAUI, so can imagine how it appears.

Assuming your friend is also posting on the Spanish forum, can you perhaps provide a direct link to his/her post, please?

It's perhaps also worth confirming that this CA98 owner is using the latest v1.0.2 system software and touchscreen software (three are three stages to update everything fully), and not just the update system software, but an older touchscreen software. It's perhaps unlikely, but worth checking, just in case.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744071
06/13/18 06:53 AM
06/13/18 06:53 AM
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You can try formatting the USB stick with the CA98.

Anyway, I once experienced a similar GUI "lock" on my CA98 when navigating to a directory with 555 MIDI files on it - maybe someone can guess what are the contents of that directory ;-) The only way to unlock the GUI was to reboot the DP. However, I had managed to navigate to that directory before. I am running the latest firmware version. It can be easily shown that the GUI will take a long time to list the contents of a directory with many files (say +100) and that it is not caching the contents previously read.

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744076
06/13/18 07:21 AM
06/13/18 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Thank you for the additional info.

I'm unable to see the screenshot, unfortunately. However I'm familiar with the CAUI, so can imagine how it appears.

Assuming your friend is also posting on the Spanish forum, can you perhaps provide a direct link to his/her post, please?

It's perhaps also worth confirming that this CA98 owner is using the latest v1.0.2 system software and touchscreen software (three are three stages to update everything fully), and not just the update system software, but an older touchscreen software. It's perhaps unlikely, but worth checking, just in case.

Kind regards,
James
x


Thanks James. This is the link:

http://www.entre88teclas.es/foro/vi...cb8e817dc06c0f100e&start=156#p185382

In theory, he updated succesfully to the last firmware version after some trouble understanding how to do it, but who knows wink



Last edited by mabraman; 06/13/18 07:25 AM.

Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744153
06/13/18 02:36 PM
06/13/18 02:36 PM
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A video showing how It happens
CA98 recording issue


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744189
06/13/18 04:27 PM
06/13/18 04:27 PM
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You have to use at least one Upper Case letter, one number and one special character so it would allow you to save it!
SCNR

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: mabraman] #2744190
06/13/18 04:38 PM
06/13/18 04:38 PM
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In the video, it looks like touch screen failure.
So, It is different from my case, hmmm
Mine just freeze, nothing can do at all, except plugging out the power cord.


Let's help each other... laugh
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: mabraman] #2744255
06/13/18 10:00 PM
06/13/18 10:00 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by mabraman
A video showing how It happens
CA98 recording issue


Thank you for the link (and also to the forum thread).

It seems that the 'Done' button press is not registering correctly.
I'm afraid I don't know what could be causing this.

I believe the same keyboard UI is used for other functions such as storing (and naming) a Favorite memory (Store to Favorite), or saving an internal song recorded in Sound mode to USB. Indeed, the latter would be a good test, to double-check that USB writing is working correctly.

I would also like to double-check that the customer's CA98 is running the v1.0.2 touchscreen software. This version number is shown at the bottom of the Settings menu.

Regarding your suggestion of recording to internal memory first, and then converting to audio, this is only possible when recording in Sound mode. The option is not available in Pianist mode. This limitation should be explained in the owner's manual.

My recommendation to the customer ('Heart' in the Spanish forum) would be to contact their Kawai dealer/distributor for assistance.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744300
06/14/18 03:37 AM
06/14/18 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
...saving an internal song recorded in Sound mode to USB. Indeed, the latter would be a good test, to double-check that USB writing is working correctly.

...

Regarding your suggestion of recording to internal memory first, and then converting to audio, this is only possible when recording in Sound mode. The option is not available in Pianist mode. This limitation should be explained in the owner's manual.
...

Kind regards,
James
x

Last night I was reading the manual and was hardly able to find any mention to the possibility of exporting files from internal memory to USB drive. I knew it wasn't possible for Pianist mode and, as it is a feature of x7 models, it should work in Sound mode...and yes, it is on page 71! (Recorder playback).
By the way, does it convert internal songs to mp3 automatically, or keeps them in KSO?


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: mabraman] #2744308
06/14/18 04:22 AM
06/14/18 04:22 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by mabraman
By the way, does it convert internal songs to mp3 automatically, or keeps them in KSO?


The recorded song is saved in either .KSO or .MID format, depending on the option selected (Save to USB [INT] or Save to USB [SMF]).

The 'Convert to Audio' function is no longer available on the CA98/CA78/NV10, however the same functionality can be reproduced using the Overdubbing function and selecting either an SMF/KSO file or an Internal Song recorded in Sound mode. This is explained on page 78 of the owner's manual.

May I kindly request that you ask your friend to check if the 'Store to Favorites' and/or 'Save to USB (SMF/USB)' functions (that also show the keyboard interface) are working correctly, and to confirm the version of the touchscreen software, as in my previous post. Feel free to also inform them of my post, or invite them to the forum. Thank you in advance.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744323
06/14/18 06:56 AM
06/14/18 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James


May I kindly request that you ask your friend to check if the 'Store to Favorites' and/or 'Save to USB (SMF/USB)' functions (that also show the keyboard interface) are working correctly, and to confirm the version of the touchscreen software, as in my previous post. At the time of writing. Feel free to also inform them of my post, or invite them to the forum. Thank you in advance.

Kind regards,
James
x

I just did it. Thank you very much, James, you are always very kind and helpful.
He is already in contact with the technicians. 'Save to USB (SMF/USB)' won't work.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744328
06/14/18 07:23 AM
06/14/18 07:23 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Thank you very much mabraman.

I just checked the Spanish forum again and saw the most recent posts from 'Heart'.

It's clear that the instrument was correctly updated to v1.0.2, and that saving a recorder song to USB is also not working correct.
I note with interest that the same USB stick works correctly with the store's CA98, which suggest there is some kind of problem with the customer's instrument.

Thanks again for bringing this to my attention, and for following-up. I'm hopeful that the dealer's technicians will be able to resolve this strange issue.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744329
06/14/18 07:38 AM
06/14/18 07:38 AM
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May I ask you what is the Spanish forum?
I only know of German forums, any other languages?


Kawai CA78
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Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Audetto] #2744336
06/14/18 08:12 AM
06/14/18 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Audetto
May I ask you what is the Spanish forum?
I only know of German forums, any other languages?

It's just a forum dedicated to piano, from Spain.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744343
06/14/18 08:27 AM
06/14/18 08:27 AM
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Do you mind sharing the link?


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Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Audetto] #2744354
06/14/18 09:48 AM
06/14/18 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Audetto
Do you mind sharing the link?

http://www.entre88teclas.es/foro/index.php


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744378
06/14/18 11:48 AM
06/14/18 11:48 AM
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Hi everyone,

thanks so much for all you entries, it helped me in my decision-making tremendously! After restless weeks of internet research I have made up my mind 95%, I will buy a Kawai CA 78:-) If someone would like to convince me otherwise, please question my decision:-).

In Bangkok, where I currently live, there are only certain brands available (Yamaha, Kawai, Casio). The number of digital pianos being displayed are limited and so is the expertise in the shops. I was able to try out Yamaha CLP 635, Kawai CS 11, CA 58, CN 27 and Casio Celviano models.

The reasons I will order a Kawai CA 78 are the following:

1) I liked both the action and sound better with the Kawai pianos (I am aware that this might change within a series, but what most of you shared about the CA-Series opposite Yamaha CLP-Series, especially with regard to the heavier action with Yamaha confirmed my impression).

2) Comparing CA 78 and CA 98 I will go for the CA 78, because I will mainly play it with headphones in a smaller apartment with a lot of neighbours. Therefore I would probably not be able to make proper use of the soundboard-addition. And since the CA 98 comes as a one-seize-furniture, delivery and moving back to Europe will be easier with a CA 78.

3) I found the staff with Kawai to be the most competent ones. In case of problems...

Your reports about the software or other problems problems nearly made me give up on the plan, but it seems, I have not much of a choice rather then trust and hope, that my piano will run fine:-).
And trust, of course, that I will love the CA78 without having tested it...

Anne

PS: If anyone happens to look for a piano in Bangkok, I am happy to share locations and experiences. Shops close down or change location here so fast...

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744591
06/15/18 01:12 AM
06/15/18 01:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 41
Switzerland
P
paf Offline
Full Member
paf  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 41
Switzerland
Hi Anne

My advice about the software (or better said the user interface, as everybody seems happy about the sound engine software) before you spend multi-1000-€: look at the manual first (available at Kawai online), then go to a shop, use the GUI (e.g. for changing instruments or settings) and try to save and restore settings (using the favorites and the "save to sound" function).

If it works as you expect and you like it, then go for it.

If it doesn't, think twice about it and the fact that Kawai has given ZERO perspective of a GUI update for better usability in the last half year.

If you can't test it by yourself.. again, think twice about it.

Regards
Patrick


Kawai CA98, Technics SX-PX 201 with homemade multitrack MIDI recorder based on an Arduino
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744596
06/15/18 01:51 AM
06/15/18 01:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 197
Taipei, Taiwan
K
Kenny Cheng Offline
Full Member
Kenny Cheng  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 197
Taipei, Taiwan
I feedback the UI problem to my local dealer. I don't expect Kawai to improve in a short term.

For now, I just keep practicing on my CA78 and not worry about the UI thing.

Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: Kawai James] #2744632
06/15/18 07:31 AM
06/15/18 07:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 629
Valencia, Spain
M
mabraman Offline
500 Post Club Member
mabraman  Offline
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 629
Valencia, Spain
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Thank you very much mabraman.

I just checked the Spanish forum again and saw the most recent posts from 'Heart'.

It's clear that the instrument was correctly updated to v1.0.2, and that saving a recorder song to USB is also not working correct.
I note with interest that the same USB stick works correctly with the store's CA98, which suggest there is some kind of problem with the customer's instrument.

Thanks again for bringing this to my attention, and for following-up. I'm hopeful that the dealer's technicians will be able to resolve this strange issue.

Kind regards,
James
x


Just to let you know, user has tested 'save to favourites' function and, as you presumed, it won't work. It seems that 'done' key is at fault.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available [Re: paf] #2744772
06/15/18 10:56 PM
06/15/18 10:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4
Bangkok
A
AnneThailand Offline
Junior Member
AnneThailand  Offline
Junior Member
A

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4
Bangkok
Originally Posted by paf
Hi Anne

My advice about the software (or better said the user interface, as everybody seems happy about the sound engine software) before you spend multi-1000-€: look at the manual first (available at Kawai online), then go to a shop, use the GUI (e.g. for changing instruments or settings) and try to save and restore settings (using the favorites and the "save to sound" function).

If it works as you expect and you like it, then go for it.

If it doesn't, think twice about it and the fact that Kawai has given ZERO perspective of a GUI update for better usability in the last half year.

If you can't test it by yourself.. again, think twice about it.

Regards
Patrick



Hi Patrick,

Thanks a lot! Good advice. I will try to test the above mentioned settings then. I am still waiting for an answer though whether they have the CA 78 on stock or whether they need to order it from Japan exclusively for me...Indeed, It is not an easy decision to buy something that expensive without having seen and tested it...Still not 100% sure.

Again, thanks a lot.

Regards to Switzerland (I am German:-)

Anne

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