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Piano search (and minor rant) #2743404
06/10/18 11:26 AM
06/10/18 11:26 AM
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New City, NY
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NYSteve Offline OP
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Hi everyone - first post from a long time lurker here.

It’s time to upgrade my piano from a 1996 Samick-made Altenburg 510R. It’s actually not a bad piano - for half the price of a C3 at the time, it was actually amazing and it let me start out adulthood with a grand piano. I’m pretty convinced that a great tech could probably replace the hammers, put in oversize pins, and voice/regulate the heck out of it to make it extremely respectable. But for us, it’s time to move on. (Current repertoire is Mendelssohn/Chopin/Mozart/Beethoven, a bit of Bach, and a desire to do more... plus jazz/rock/pop, and a real desire to take formal jazz lessons.)


Top contenders for me are a new Mason & Hamlin AA and a Shigeru Kawai SK5. (Very different pianos, I know.) I’m hoping to try a new Forster 190 but my local dealer only has a 170 on the floor. And given the amazing rebuilt BB’s that I’ve played, I’d love to compare the new AA to a new BB but again, the dealer doesn’t have one. And I’m still looking for the elusive perfectly rebuilt but affordable Steinway B, probably a result of an overly romanticized view of that piano,

I’ve learned in this search that I don’t have a preconceived notion of a specific piano sound that I want. Multiple things speak to me when I play them in the stores. Generally, I’d have thought that I prefer a “European” tone as pianos like Schimmel, Forster, and Bechstein had appealed to me in the past, whereas Baldwin never did it for me. Steinway was always in a separate class just because nearly every concert and recording I’d ever heard had a Steinway - so the sound is familiar. But the Masons have captivated me with their richness, and there is a real clarity in the tenor / treble that can sing above that rich bass. I might have even bought that AA already had it not been for a serious click on key release that the dealer has been working with MH to address. He says it’s been fixed (replaced the knuckles) but is bringing in a tech to do a complete regulation to make sure that things are right before I come back to try it.

But the main thing that I’ve learend is that many piano dealers and rebuilders are full of crap. I’ve had dealers tell me all kinds of stories: The Shigeru is no different then a well prepped GX (by a dealer who carried GX but not Shigeru); Mason has real quality problems and those composite actions are nothing but trouble (by a dealer who I’m told lost the Mason line but has one used pre-composite action piano on the floor that is an exception to the quality issues); Bechstein Academy pianos aren’t even made in Germany. Every rebuilder tells me that they are the only rebuilder who does things “right” as evidenced by their history / warranty / factory / personal training from Angelo Andino; meanwhile, most of the local technicians are wary of any rebuilt pianos because of the hack jobs that they’ve seen.

I feel that I’m lucky to have found two dealers that are trustworthy (rarity: each of them acknowledges that in a world filled with shysters, the other dealer is at least a nice, honest guy). One of them is the Mason dealer who has been very transparent with me about the work needed to eliminate the click, and his desire to bring in a regulator. It’s almost definite that one of them will get the business at this point and I venture to say that part of the reason is that their approach and attitude kept me in their stores long enough to find, play, and appreciate some great pianos.

But why is it that folks in this business make it so hard for us? This industry needs to go through some changes in its marketing and sales strategy.

~Steve

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Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743409
06/10/18 11:40 AM
06/10/18 11:40 AM
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Florida
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The sales strategy will change when buyers like yourself don’t buy based on the strong-arm sales tactic, but spend where the sales pitch is more even-handed. This takes a lot of research prior to even visiting a piano store to be able to separate out the hype. I’m afraid I don’t think we’re there yet as a buying group which I actually find surprising because the purchase of a piano is a relatively high ticket item.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743412
06/10/18 11:47 AM
06/10/18 11:47 AM
Joined: May 2001
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New York City
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Originally Posted by NYSteve

I feel that I’m lucky to have found two dealers that are trustworthy (rarity: each of them acknowledges that in a world filled with shysters, the other dealer is at least a nice, honest guy). One of them is the Mason dealer who has been very transparent with me about the work needed to eliminate the click, and his desire to bring in a regulator. It’s almost definite that one of them will get the business at this point and I venture to say that part of the reason is that their approach and attitude kept me in their stores long enough to find, play, and appreciate some great pianos.
Since you are in NYC and I know that Faust Harrison Pianos no longer carries Masons, can you tell me which dealer does carry Mason Hamlin now?

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: pianoloverus] #2743416
06/10/18 12:03 PM
06/10/18 12:03 PM
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NYSteve Offline OP
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In in the NY are but not in the city... and Altenburg Piano House in Elizabeth NJ carries Masons. He has an A and an AA on the floor now; please don’t buy the AA out from under me smile - but do tell Fred Altenburg that I sent you there. This may be the 3rd piano that my family buys from his family (my upright Sohmer when I was a kid, the current grand, and maybe the Mason. He also carries Forster and has the 170.

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Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743434
06/10/18 01:43 PM
06/10/18 01:43 PM
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Georgia, USA
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It's tough because, in 6-7 foot, high quality grands, not that many are being sold in the US, so competition to make a sale (and a little profit) is fierce, particularly among a sales force driven by commissions.

Sounds like you've narrowed it down to 2 good options and 2 good dealers, I'd probably wait and try the M&H after they say it's ready, before pulling the trigger on anything.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743436
06/10/18 01:57 PM
06/10/18 01:57 PM
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Maine
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Hi NYSteve,

Although it's a little distance away from you in NYC, you might consider visiting the M&H factory in Haverhill, MA. I toured the factory last year (by myself, not with the PW gang, alas), and played every piano in the 6th floor showroom. You might find an AA there without the clicking problem.

Also sending you a PM.

-LLW
Maine

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743467
06/10/18 03:57 PM
06/10/18 03:57 PM
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Masons are great pianos. My only advice would be not to buy any piano that has already been identified as having a defect, whether or not it gets fixed before you make your decision. Find a Mason that does not have the click--it will be a great piano and you will not be buying a known problem with it. Masons of course are hand made, so the fact that one has a click does not mean that another will have it. But any fix of a serious problem that is there before you buy the piano may or may not be permanent--why take the chance, when there are other Masons out there?

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: Rank Piano Amateur] #2743471
06/10/18 04:14 PM
06/10/18 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Rank Piano Amateur
Masons are great pianos. My only advice would be not to buy any piano that has already been identified as having a defect, whether or not it gets fixed before you make your decision. Find a Mason that does not have the click--it will be a great piano and you will not be buying a known problem with it. Masons of course are hand made, so the fact that one has a click does not mean that another will have it. But any fix of a serious problem that is there before you buy the piano may or may not be permanent--why take the chance, when there are other Masons out there?

1. Mason Hamlin uses a lot of modern machinery in their production. For many parts of piano building "hand made" is inferior to machine made.
2. I think it goes without saying that not all Masons have a clicking action but it has nothing to do with how they are made. It they all had clicks it would mean all their pianos were defective.
3. Whether or not it makes sense to buy this piano after the clicking is fixed would depend on the cause of the clicking IMO.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743475
06/10/18 04:21 PM
06/10/18 04:21 PM
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New City, NY
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Rank Amateur - thanks for the perspective. I”ve been wondering about this, but of course I think that depends on what the defect actually is. I’m no technician but it seems like  some problems could be self-contained (perhaps this key click - replace the offending component and be done with it) while there are other problems that would be more systemic (inability to hold a tune well or perhaps lack of sustain). Those could indicate structural issues (perhaps).

They only thing that concerns me is: does the fact that this piano got through QC with this click mean that someone asleep at the switch that day? And if so, are there other problems that should have been caught?

Meanwhile, I do want to say that the dealer has been very good about keeping me posted on how this repair has gone and why he wants to get the piano regulated after this repair and before I check it out again. And, to LLW’s point: the dealer did mention that a factory visit is a possibility if I want to look at a BB; I’m sure that if I wanted to check out a different AA that way he’d be amenable too.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743477
06/10/18 04:28 PM
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I don't think that the click proves anything about QC. It might have turned up later, for example after the piano had been moved or after the parts settled in to each other a bit. Problems--major or minor--that show up after the piano has left the factory are the main reason for buying a piano with a warranty, at least in my opinion. I'm sure that this one (or any other Mason), bought new from an authorized source, will come with an excellent factory warranty, and I know from personal experience that Mason stands behind its pianos. If you think about it, given the number of parts, it is remarkable how little goes wrong with new pianos. And Masons are fabulous--you will never regret getting one!


Last edited by Rank Piano Amateur; 06/10/18 04:30 PM.
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743598
06/11/18 08:55 AM
06/11/18 08:55 AM
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From a Steinway B owner, they can be wonderful, lovely pianos. But then some of them, well not so much. It takes doing some research and shopping around, and as you indicated, finding one rebuilt by a quality rebuilder who really knows what he/she is doing to bring out the best in them. I'm now the owner of an S&S B, because I happened to be in the right place at the right time and got a good deal on a very lovely piano. As much as I love mine, I'd go for a nice M&H BB any day. Since you're not locked in to a specific sound, M&H pianos are wonderful instruments and much more affordable compared to the S&S B.

Incidentally, I had my S&S B action stack rebuilt last year with the same WNG composite action they use in the new M&H pianos. I absolutely love it! I've had no issues. I think the click in the piano you're considering is an isolated occurrence. WNG did have some issues with the composite actions early on, but the technician who did my rebuild said that M&H and WNG have worked hard and listened to feedback from many independent technicians to rectify the issues and make marked improvements based on the input from the field. I wouldn't be at all leary of the WNG Composite action.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743624
06/11/18 12:21 PM
06/11/18 12:21 PM
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Western New York State, USA
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Have you tried the Shigeru Kawai SK-5 yet? I saw it was on your list. I played one recently and became quite enamored with it. The dealer who told you that there was not real difference between the Shigeru and a well prepped GX was full of it.


Peter
1949 Baldwin M
currently working on the Chopin Ballades,
Brahms op. 10 Ballades and op.119 Klavierstucke,
Mendelssohn Songs Without Words and E minor Prelude and Fugue.
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: P3T3R] #2743636
06/11/18 01:04 PM
06/11/18 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by P3T3R
Have you tried the Shigeru Kawai SK-5 yet? I saw it was on your list. I played one recently and became quite enamored with it. The dealer who told you that there was not real difference between the Shigeru and a well prepped GX was full of it.



I agree that dealer is full of it. He doesn’t carry the Shigeru but wants to make a sale so it’s not hard to see his motive for dismissing the differences between the two pianos. I’d personally contact whoever is in charge of the U.S. Kawai distribution and let them know about this dealer’s sales tactics.


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: John305] #2743671
06/11/18 04:10 PM
06/11/18 04:10 PM
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The super offensive one was someone who carries the GX but not the Shigeru and insisted that I try their GX3 even though I had been looking at the SK5. I don’t know if the point was to showcase the similarities (of which I found few) or to just assert similarities that I might agree to and then point out how inferior it is to other of his better pianos. Annoying.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: John305] #2743672
06/11/18 04:14 PM
06/11/18 04:14 PM
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I had occasion, recently, to play a GX-3 fully prepped on site by Don Manino and an out of the box, though tuned, SK-2, factory prep only.

I fully expected to like the SK-2 better.

I liked that GX-3 better.

There was no SK-3 available, so I couldn't make a comparison.

I am aware that the GX-3 is bigger, and the comparison not exactly apples to apples, but I thought the tone in the mid and treble areas of the GX-3 would suffer alongside the Shigeru-Kawai, and they didn't.

I also played a SK-5 and SK-6 which were both wonderful, and an SK-7 which I liked a lot though not as well as one I played in Beijing.

The sales rep let the instruments speak for themselves.

My conclusion: Shigeru-Kawai is the premium instrument line, and model for model, side by side, will out perform the Blak series. They have a more refined "feel"; in general, the tone is more "vibrant". That said, if you're on a budget that precludes a Shigeru-Kawai, do not despair. If you find a GX that you like, investing in a day's work at your home from a highly qualified, Shigeru-Kawai trained technician, might get you a great instrument for less money. And, of course, I did say, "...that you like". I wouldn't advise buying anything in the hopes of changing it in any fundamental way later.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: Seeker] #2743678
06/11/18 04:58 PM
06/11/18 04:58 PM
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NYSteve Offline OP
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Thanks so much for that comparison.

The SK5 that I played really sang, to me. So did the Mason AA, but for totally different reasons.

Decisions decisions. Hope to hear back from the Mason dealer today on how the regulation went.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743848
06/12/18 09:37 AM
06/12/18 09:37 AM
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On a slightly related note, I was deciding between a used SK3 and a used RX3. I think the SK3 did sound better. I think the biggest notable difference were the hammers and prep work on the SK3. RX3 felt slightly heavier, which I actually prefer. My tech who has no stake said some people prefer the sound and feel of the regular Kawai compared to the Shigeru. It’s a very personal thing. With similar actions and same scale design, I went with the RX3. The $25,000 difference for me could pay for a lot of prep work. Sometimes I yearn for the Shigeru, but I think it’s mostly for want of a first tier hand crafted item. I don’t think my daily playing would notice much of a difference. With that financial savings, I like to think that I could have gotten myself a “free” car or partial kitchen renovation or several very nice vacations, etc.

My understanding is that at the RX5/GX5/SK5 size that you’re looking at,, the pianos start getting really good. But I dont have the space or the need for that much piano.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743860
06/12/18 10:33 AM
06/12/18 10:33 AM
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Quote
Top contenders for me are a new Mason & Hamlin AA and a Shigeru Kawai SK5. (Very different pianos, I know.) I’m hoping to try a new Forster 190 but my local dealer only has a 170 on the floor.


Those are indeed different instruments. From the Shigeru Kawai I have tried at least five SK-3, as well as an SK-6, and an SK-7. They are great instruments, very nice, consistent action. The SK-5 is by some considered an odd ball, and the only reason to choose it would be to fit available space. The SK-3 is by far the most frequently bought size around where I live. They differ (individual SK-3) quite a bit in sound though, at least to my ears.

I recently tried the August Förster 190. The name is somewhat misleading, since both the 190 and 215 are in fact 4 cm longer than the name suggests. It was a dream (almost) come true (cannot afford to buy it yet). It has an amazing base for an instrument this size. This particular instrument could play soft similar to what you can experience from a Bösendorfer, and had a wonderful dynamic range. It had a very intimate sound, and suited equally well for jazz and classic. The strings are single-strung, which (I believe) adds to the clarity of the tone. You could even strike a chord in the base, without it sounding distorted. It took me 7 hours by car one way to try out the instrument, but it turned out to be worth it. Personally I found it a much more interesting piano than for instance Steinway A. It is very well suited for a home environment.

Since you live in the US, I guess most people would prefer the Mason & Hamlin AA (193cm). However, I would strongly encourage you to try out the Förster. As with all pianos, there are great and not so great individuals from even the best manufactures. They all sound different. I noticed this with Steinway, Kawai, Schimmel and Yamaha to name a few. I have only tried two Mason & Hamlin, both rebuilt (original sound board). As with all rebuilds, I did not particularly like it. They have a different feel than new instruments.

If you are more interested in pianos than most, you could of course take a trip to the factory. This might be a good idea if you decide on a brand that is less common. As for the 170, I would never choose that if you have space for more.

Last edited by Skjalg; 06/12/18 10:38 AM.
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743869
06/12/18 11:20 AM
06/12/18 11:20 AM
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CT
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Hi Steve,
Hi Steve,

I called the M&H Factory Store in Haverhill, MA. They definitely have more than one AA's and BB's for you to try. Given your proximity to the factory, in NYC, this is probably your best bet of comparing multiple 6'4" AA's relative to each other and also compare them to the larger 7' BB's. I'm sure they would be happy to coordinate this with your local authorized M&H dealer. From our last PianoWorld visit, I recall they may also have some Grotrian-Steinwegs in the size range you are looking for you to try in comparison as well.

Take Care,


Jason Solomonides
Mason & Hamlin 7' BB 93623
Yamaha 6'1" C3 (w/WNG) D3010008
My Piano Recordings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7aJcfJZZvg&list=PLkP65I5BsNirTcv-nAHm4BXXsCbB_EbAJ
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Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743872
06/12/18 11:27 AM
06/12/18 11:27 AM
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Georgia, USA
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Mr. Solomonides,

Would this be a sale through the local dealer, a la a selection at the Steinway factory, or is the dealer network being bypassed? Is this something they do with all models, or specific sizes only? Just curious.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: Skjalg] #2743884
06/12/18 12:28 PM
06/12/18 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Skjalg

I recently tried the August Förster 190...


I spent a few hours practicing on the smaller August Forster grand last week. I thought it was a really nice instrument. Great balance and clarity. Definitely a good choice for a teaching studio or small home.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2743886
06/12/18 12:39 PM
06/12/18 12:39 PM
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Williamsburg, VA
Piano*Dad Online content
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Quote
As authorized North American Distributors of Grotrian-Steinweg, the Haverhill, MA factory usually has some Grotrian's of varying sizes available for comparison


I did not know this. Thanks for that information.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: Piano*Dad] #2743945
06/12/18 04:53 PM
06/12/18 04:53 PM
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Goshen, Indiana
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
Quote
As authorized North American Distributors of Grotrian-Steinweg, the Haverhill, MA factory usually has some Grotrian's of varying sizes available for comparison


I did not know this. Thanks for that information.


At the last PTG convention in St. Louis I did a double take when I glanced over at the Mason & Hamlin/PianoDisc/WNG booth and saw a Grotrian sitting next to a Mason & Hamlin. The Grotrian-Steinweg distribution deal must be a fairly recent addition.

Last edited by BenjaminR; 06/12/18 04:53 PM.

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Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2744019
06/12/18 11:41 PM
06/12/18 11:41 PM
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I assume that anything from Grotrian Steinweg would be quite a bit more than it’s Mason Hamlin counterpart...

@skjalj - what about the SK5 makes it an oddbal? I know it’s 6’ 7” (200cm) instead of the more usual 190cm - is that all you mean?

While we’re on the subject - just curious if anyone here has any experience with the C213 Schimmel and how it compares to the other pianos being discussed here? Seems to me to be a bit brighter with maybe a stiffer action... Just asking for other inputs.

Oh... and what do you all think about the presence of say a QRS system in a used piano? I saw a Forster 190 that sounded great but had a QRS in it. I’m not a fan in general but maybe that’s not a reason to discount the piano..

Thanks,
~S

Last edited by NYSteve; 06/12/18 11:44 PM.
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2744037
06/13/18 02:25 AM
06/13/18 02:25 AM
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Norway
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Skjalg Offline

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Skjalg  Offline

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Norway
As for QRS, I would personally be hesitant about it. While I technically find it cool, it does reduce somewhat the piano from what it could be because of reduced strike distance (1mm or so); at least that is what all the piano technicians I have spoken to say.
Quote

@skjalg - what about the SK5 makes it an oddbal? I know it’s 6’ 7” (200cm) instead of the more usual 190cm - is that all you mean?

Exactly this, that the 200cm is an odd size. It not as intimate as an A-sized instrument, and not as powerful as a B-size. It is not a Golden size if you like. It is as if you end up with a double compromise. I was considering the SK-5 size myself, purely from an interior perspective. In other words, that it would not be too small nor too big. I discussed it with a dealer, and he said that it is not a commonly sold model. It is an oddball. He advised against it, because he personally did not like the sound that much, and recommended to either go up (SK-6) or down (SK-3).

If you look around at what the high-end manufactures make, very few make a 200cm model, with some notable exceptions of course. The price difference between an SK-6 and an SK-5 is negligible in my opinion. I have however not tried the SK-5 myself. I have seen one for sale in the last 10 years (searching through historic sales).

As for Schimmel C213, it is a very nice instrument, as is the predecessor C208. The main difference being the key length I believe. It is a lot of playing pleasure. I play one quite regularly. I would rather have an SK-6 though, and rather have a Schimmel Konzert 219 than an SK-6. And in my home, I would rather have an August Förster 190 as 219cm probably would prove too large.


Last edited by Skjalg; 06/13/18 02:30 AM.
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2744208
06/13/18 06:10 PM
06/13/18 06:10 PM
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We just went up to Adams Piano in New Paltz NY and picked up a bargain Baldwin R. The proprietor’s sales approach was honest and direct — he emphasized the value of the repair work done to the piano, but there wasn’t any “it’s just like a ______” hype.

I recommend the store to anyone looking for used pianos. The prices seem to occupy a spot a bit above Craigslist and below the finer retail shops around.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: Skjalg] #2744216
06/13/18 06:42 PM
06/13/18 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Skjalg
Exactly this, that the 200cm is an odd size. It not as intimate as an A-sized instrument, and not as powerful as a B-size. It is not a Golden size if you like.
One could just as easily argue that it's a great compromise between those two sizes or say it's not too intimate or too powerful. In a home setting, I think both and A and B sized Steinways can be as intimate or powerful as one needs. Bechstein (Academy) and Bosendorfer also make pianos in that in between size.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: pianoloverus] #2744235
06/13/18 08:43 PM
06/13/18 08:43 PM
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NYSteve Offline OP
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@pianoloverus, that’s actually my view - it’s somewhat less expensive than the 7’ size but nearly as big sounding.

@standalone - thanks for the tip on Adams Piano,.. always good to mention trustworthy dealers.

Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: Skjalg] #2744243
06/13/18 09:03 PM
06/13/18 09:03 PM
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terminaldegree Offline
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Originally Posted by Skjalg

Exactly this, that the 200cm is an odd size. It not as intimate as an A-sized instrument, and not as powerful as a B-size. It is not a Golden size if you like. It is as if you end up with a double compromise. I was considering the SK-5 size myself, purely from an interior perspective. In other words, that it would not be too small nor too big. I discussed it with a dealer, and he said that it is not a commonly sold model. It is an oddball. He advised against it, because he personally did not like the sound that much, and recommended to either go up (SK-6) or down (SK-3).

If you look around at what the high-end manufactures make, very few make a 200cm model, with some notable exceptions of course. The price difference between an SK-6 and an SK-5 is negligible in my opinion. I have however not tried the SK-5 myself. I have seen one for sale in the last 10 years (searching through historic sales).

As for Schimmel C213, it is a very nice instrument, as is the predecessor C208. The main difference being the key length I believe.


Lest we not forget the classic Bösendorfer model 200, the former (and a personal favorite) Steingraeber 205...which later became the 212, the Seiler 203...which was replaced by the 208, the 208cm Grotrian Charis, the Yamaha C5x, even the Hailun 198 in the lower priced bracket. Honestly, I've sort of liked this size, because you can often end up with a full-sounding home/studio piano that isn't set up to be screaming loud out of the box. Of course, I'm being a little bit of a hypocrite, as I currently own a 7 footer.

Interestingly, Kawai chose to sample the SK-5 size as the 2nd grand piano voice for their digital piano lineup, so they found something different and interesting to use in that size.

Also, the 213 Schimmel is an updated scale design compared to the older 208, it goes beyond the key length. Just trying to provide some useful counterpoint, not completely disagreeing with you.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Piano search (and minor rant) [Re: NYSteve] #2744252
06/13/18 09:30 PM
06/13/18 09:30 PM
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NYSteve Offline OP
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Curious about that C213: a few years ago, there was a K213, from before they put longer actions in the K series. When they did that, I believe it yielded the K219. (Is that correct?)

So: is today’s C213 basically the same piano as that K213? If not what are the differences?

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