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Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Rychubil] #2743619
06/11/18 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Any bluetooth speaker is fine if it has a line input you can use, because then it bypasses the bluetooth function entirely anyway, so it's not doing any harm.

If is really like you mention, why my Bose Soundlink mini 2 plugged by 3,5mm jack cable to the FP30 issue latency?


This, as mentioned above, is possibly because of DSP - digital sound processing - in the Bose speaker, which may be more extreme and latency-causing than most other brands. But this is speculation.


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Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Tor E Bekken] #2743654
06/11/18 01:16 PM
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Right. Any latency you're experiencing on the Bose when directly plugged in has nothing to do with bluetooth. I didn't mean to imply it's impossible to have latency on a speaker you directly connect to, as your experience is proving otherwise. I'm just saying the presence of bluetooth in a speaker is completely irrelevant if you're not actually using the speaker's wireless bluetooth function, and will not affect latency one way or the other.

Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Rychubil] #2743661
06/11/18 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
. . .
Any example of strictly music amplifier for keyboards (small dimensions) ?


Four questions (sorry if they've been answered already):

1. Does it need to run from batteries or 12-volt power, or can it use 120/240 volt AC power?

2. Maximum size?

3. Maximum weight?

4. Maximum cost?

There is a trade-off, set by physics and engineering, not marketing:

. . . For good bass (low frequencies, with adequate volume to match the midrange frequencies),
. . . you must have a large loudspeaker.
. . . and you must have enough power to drive it.

More-or-less, the size and weight of a "small" loudspeaker (and amp) is set by the diameter of its largest driver ("woofer"), and the power of the amplifier. A Mackie SRM150 (8 pounds, 5" woofer, 150 watts, 8"x11"x7") is one point on that trade-off curve.

. . . Is that the kind of "small" you're looking for?

So decide where you want to set that trade-off, and you will get more-accurate recommendations.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2743673
06/11/18 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by Rychubil
. . . 
Any example of strictly music amplifier for keyboards (small dimensions) ?


Four questions (sorry if they've been answered already):

1.  Does it need to run from batteries or 12-volt power, or can it use 120/240 volt AC power?

2.  Maximum size?

3.  Maximum weight?

4.  Maximum cost?‎

Thank you Charles Cohen.

1. Can be AC power, no problem. 

2. Maximum 10" 

3. Maximum 3 kilograms 

4. Roughly 150$‎

This Mackie SRM150 looks nice but too expensive and a bit too large.

Last edited by Rychubil; 06/11/18 03:26 PM.

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Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Tor E Bekken] #2743674
06/11/18 03:33 PM
06/11/18 03:33 PM
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I just bought a Reface CP last week. It was hard to find! I love the sounds it makes and there is a hidden acoustic piano sound. I love playing with the effects. I hooked it up to my 1000W powered speaker and that was fun too!


Marcus Valdes
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Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: toddy] #2743675
06/11/18 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by Rychubil
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Any bluetooth speaker is fine if it has a line input you can use, because then it bypasses the bluetooth function entirely anyway, so it's not doing any harm.

If is really like you mention, why my Bose Soundlink mini 2 plugged by 3,5mm jack cable to the FP30 issue latency?


This, as mentioned above, is possibly because of DSP - digital sound processing - in the Bose speaker, which may be more extreme and latency-causing than most other brands. But this is speculation.


The DSP in these speakers is not speculation. This is from Bose's press release:press release
Quote
...digital signal processing optimizes the audio output for balanced sound at any listening level.


And from a review
Quote
Bose uses digital signal processing (DSP) to prevent distortion through the SoundLink Mini II's drivers. (...). At maximum volume, the speaker doesn't distort (thanks to the DSP), but the heavy thumping of the deep bass on this track turns into more of a tap. You'll still get a sense of strong low-end, but the DSP clearly alters the lows at high volumes to prevent distortion.


And there are several threads on Bose's forum and elsewhere about the latency using the aux input. This is not only about Bose's portable speakers but ti portable speakers in general. These models are designed to play streamed music where some latency is not an issue. The OP should be looking into proper studio monitors or speakers.

Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Rychubil] #2743681
06/11/18 04:12 PM
06/11/18 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
. .
Thank you Charles Cohen.

1. Can be AC power, no problem. 

2. Maximum 10" 

3. Maximum 3 kilograms 

4. Roughly 150$‎

This Mackie SRM150 looks nice but too expensive and a bit too large.


There's a Behringer clone (more-or-less) of the Mackie SRM150 -- the Behringer D205D. It might suit your budget better, but it's the same size.

Here's the Sweetwater listing (with very favorable user reviews):

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B205D--behringer-eurolive-b205d

You might find one used -- Vancouver's Craiglist has one.

Several inches of "width" are used up by the control panel. It has functions you might not need. But the extra width might give the designers some additional space inside the case, for improving low-frequency response.

Musing:

I bought a Behringer KT108 "practice keyboard amp" a few years ago. It has an 8" woofer, but only 15 watts. It has very poor bass response, from a terrible open-back cabinet. It's a usable PA speaker for a very small room, but I never liked it, and don't recommend it. I think my next purchase was my EV ZXA1 (which I love, but it's not an answer for you).

I have a pair of Behringer MS40 "nearfield monitors" -- 20 watts per side, 4.75" woofers. If you could get _one_ of those, or a single speaker with similar specs, it might be OK. Buying the pair (all the electronics are in the right-hand cabinet) is expensive. You'd be better-off with the B205D.


Last edited by Charles Cohen; 06/11/18 04:13 PM.

. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: mivaldes] #2743713
06/11/18 05:56 PM
06/11/18 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mivaldes
I just bought a Reface CP last week. It was hard to find! I love the sounds it makes and there is a hidden acoustic piano sound. I love playing with the effects. I hooked it up to my 1000W powered speaker and that was fun too!


I've got one as well and really love it. There's a classical musician on Youtube named Nahre Sol who has recently been uploading compositions (often recorded live in parks, on beaches, etc) that she makes with her Reface CP:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8R8FRt1KcPiR-rtAflXmeg/videos

I don't yet have a normal-sized digital piano but when I get one I plan to immediately connect it to the CP via its MIDI to play on the larger keybed.

Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2743716
06/11/18 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mivaldes
... and there is a hidden acoustic piano sound.

I know and this is true smile
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=reface+cp+hidden+piano&sm=1

arc7urus - thank you for precisely clarifying the subject. Now I am aware how portable speakers are and my Bose stay in my office room, plugged to my DAC Fiio X5.
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

There's a Behringer clone (more-or-less) of the Mackie SRM150 -- the Behringer D205D.  ‎

This price looks better but now I think which difference would be between this kind of speaker like Behringer D205D and one single monitor in this same price range? ‎

P.S.
Originally Posted by ottokeys
[quote=mivaldes]There's a classical musician on Youtube named Nahre Sol who has recently been uploading compositions (often recorded live in parks, on beaches, etc) that she makes with her Reface CP:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8R8FRt1KcPiR-rtAflXmeg/videos

She's amazing. I discovered Reface CP just by her performances :)‎

Last edited by Rychubil; 06/11/18 06:21 PM.

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Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: arc7urus] #2743725
06/11/18 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
[The DSP in these speakers is not speculation. This is from Bose's press release

The speculation is not that the Bose has DSP, we know it does. The speculation is that their implementation causes more latency than other speakers, even other speakers with DSP.

Originally Posted by arc7urus
[ there are several threads on Bose's forum and elsewhere about the latency using the aux input. This is not only about Bose's portable speakers but ti portable speakers in general. These models are designed to play streamed music where some latency is not an issue. The OP should be looking into proper studio monitors or speakers.

But you cannot extrapolate from that that any speaker with DSP has latency. The QSC K8.2 (a "proper" PA speaker) has DSP for example, and no noticeable latency. I did not notice any latency in the small Kliipsch I mentioned. I would not assume that *just* because a speaker is sold for streaming music (as the Klipsch is), that it necessarily must have latency at its line input.


Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Rychubil] #2743751
06/11/18 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rychubil

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

There's a Behringer clone (more-or-less) of the Mackie SRM150 -- the Behringer D205D.  ‎

This price looks better but now I think which difference would be between this kind of speaker like Behringer D205D and one single monitor in this same price range? ‎


A B205D has these features, that won't be on a standard "monitor speaker":

Quote
Ultra-low noise 3-channel mixer with 3-band EQ
2 "Invisible" Mic Preamps with phantom power for condenser microphones and one instrument-ready input (no DI required)
Dedicated stereo input for keyboards, MP3, CD, etc.
XLR ''through'' connector with mic/line switch for linking more B205Ds
Mic stand integration system for use with stand and boom
Integrated limiter for system control and speaker protection


The B205D -- for example -- lets you plug in a keyboard, and two mics, mount the B205D on a mic stand for better coverage of an audience, and sing along (on Mic 1) to your own playing, accompanied by your friend playing flute (on Mic 2).

So you get a lot of flexibility, for the extra cost. You may not need it now, but it's nice to have.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Tor E Bekken] #2743753
06/11/18 08:50 PM
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If you don't need the B205D features, the B208D is cheaper and probably sounds better. Probably heavier, though. Keep in mind both of these are mono, compared to some of the stuff discussed earlier which was stereo. Stereo out of a single box is not very spacious anyway, but some pianos sound better in stereo than in mono, so that's one more variable.

Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: anotherscott] #2743818
06/12/18 05:23 AM
06/12/18 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by Rychubil

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

There's a Behringer clone (more-or-less) of the Mackie SRM150 -- the Behringer D205D. ‎

This price looks better but now I think which difference would be between this kind of speaker like Behringer D205D and one single monitor in this same price range? ‎


A B205D has these features, that won't be on a standard "monitor speaker":

Quote
Ultra-low noise 3-channel mixer with 3-band EQ
2 "Invisible" Mic Preamps with phantom power for condenser microphones and one instrument-ready input (no DI required)
Dedicated stereo input for keyboards, MP3, CD, etc.
XLR ''through'' connector with mic/line switch for linking more B205Ds
Mic stand integration system for use with stand and boom
Integrated limiter for system control and speaker protection


The B205D -- for example -- lets you plug in a keyboard, and two mics, mount the B205D on a mic stand for better coverage of an audience, and sing along (on Mic 1) to your own playing, accompanied by your friend playing flute (on Mic 2).

So you get a lot of flexibility, for the extra cost. You may not need it now, but it's nice to have.



That's true, these features of B205D can be very handy in later time.

... but the most important for me is a good issue of piano/EP sound and now dilema is, because:

Originally Posted by anotherscott
Keep in mind both of these are mono, compared to some of the stuff discussed earlier which was stereo. Stereo out of a single box is not very spacious anyway, but some pianos sound better in stereo than in mono, so that's one more variable.


Does exist any small stereo amplifier like Beringher B205D in dimennsions and features close to B205D?


Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II GP, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR.
Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Rychubil] #2743837
06/12/18 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
[Does exist any small stereo amplifier like Beringher B205D in dimennsions and features close to B205D?


If nothing else, one of the features of the B205D is the 5" speaker, and you obviously can't fit two of those speakers into a box of the same dimensions. ;-)

But since you know which piano you will be using (the Reface CP), perhaps a better question (which I don't know the answer to) is whether the CP sounds noticeably better in stereo than mono, in terms of its basic acoustic piano tone. This is more of a factor for some pianos than others, and if it's not a big factor for the Reface, then stereo could be a lesser factor in your amp selection. As for EP sounds, they are mono anyway... though the effects can be stereo, so your interest in stereo for them may also depend on whether you are more interested in their basic sound or in their sound with effects, and which effects you like to use. (Remember, though, you're never going to get much stereo "spread" out of stereo speakers that are only inches apart anyway.)

Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Tor E Bekken] #2743902
06/12/18 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Rychubil
[Does exist any small stereo amplifier like Beringher B205D in dimennsions and features close to B205D?

... perhaps a better question (which I don't know the answer to) is whether the CP sounds noticeably better in stereo than mono, in terms of its basic acoustic piano tone. This is more of a factor for some pianos than others, and if it's not a big factor for the Reface, then stereo could be a lesser factor in your amp selection. As for EP sounds, they are mono anyway... though the effects can be stereo, so your interest in stereo for them may also depend on whether you are more interested in their basic sound or in their sound with effects, and which effects you like to use. (Remember, though, you're never going to get much stereo "spread" out of stereo speakers that are only inches apart anyway.)

It's really right clue, thank you for extracting these important details. ‎
I think, the most of time I'll be using basic sounds for practicing and learning contemporary classical pieces but also I'd like to use some effects like reverb, tremolo and delay playing Rhodes sounds for my more surrealistic ideas. I am unable to assess now, which features will be more desirable for me. ‎

I should to mention as well that probably I think, half of time which I will spent on Reface, I'll be using headphones and maybe I shouldn't worry too much for stereo aspect on speaker(?) I don't know. ‎
For sure I have to go to the music store, try Reface on couple of speakers and to listen how Reface sounds like.


Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II GP, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR.
Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Rychubil] #2743910
06/12/18 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
. . .
I think, the most of time I'll be using basic sounds for practicing and learning contemporary classical pieces but also I'd like to use some effects like reverb, tremolo and delay playing Rhodes sounds for my more surrealistic ideas. I am unable to assess now, which features will be more desirable for me. ‎

I should to mention as well that probably I think, half of time which I will spent on Reface, I'll be using headphones and maybe I shouldn't worry too much for stereo aspect on speaker(?) I don't know. ‎
For sure I have to go to the music store, try Reface on couple of speakers and to listen how Reface sounds like.


Good idea !!! Your ears will give you the answer you're looking for.

My beliefs (biases?):

. . . One _good_ loudspeaker is better than two not-so-good loudspeakers.

. . . Headphones are considerably cheaper, than loudspeakers with equal sound quality.

For maximum "pure sound per dollar", you might look at the Behringer B208D. It's larger than you want, heavier than you want, but costs less than $200 US (each).


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2743931
06/12/18 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by Rychubil
. . .
I think, the most of time I'll be using basic sounds for practicing and learning contemporary classical pieces but also I'd like to use some effects like reverb, tremolo and delay playing Rhodes sounds for my more surrealistic ideas. I am unable to assess now, which features will be more desirable for me. ‎

I should to mention as well that probably I think, half of time which I will spent on Reface, I'll be using headphones and maybe I shouldn't worry too much for stereo aspect on speaker(?) I don't know. ‎


. . . One _good_ loudspeaker is better than two not-so-good loudspeakers.

. . . Headphones are considerably cheaper, than loudspeakers with equal sound quality.

For maximum "pure sound per dollar", you might look at the Behringer B208D.  It's larger than you want, heavier than you want, but costs less than $200 US (each).  


Yes, I agree - better one, good one than two not so good. I think about buying one speaker.

I already have some headphones (Audio-Technica ATH-M50X, Beyerdynamic DT990, AKG K450, Koss Porta Pro) and I don't need to buy them.

Behringer B208D is too large and too heavy for me. B205D much better especially in weight. 

I even consider one good monitor speaker on dimensions roughly 8" x 6" x 5" which be fine for me. I don't know yet. My visit in music store is obligatory!‎


Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II GP, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR.
Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Tor E Bekken] #2744430
06/14/18 01:44 PM
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I already ordered Reface CP with soft bag and I expect delivery roughly on 25th June.
See you soon smile

Last edited by Rychubil; 06/14/18 01:45 PM.

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Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Tor E Bekken] #2748167
06/29/18 09:05 PM
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I already got Reface CP with original soft bag and saying shortly:

Built:
Reface is built enough well solid and esthetic to not pretend to be a plastic 37 keys toy.
Keyboard action is right enough like on this kind of spring keyboards, is not clicking. 
Fortunately I don't have thick fingers and I am not catching accidentally neighbouring keys. Knobs and effects switches are made equally solid.

Sounds:
There are 7 sounds only but they are really on medium level quality of stage piano IMO. For example, Rhodes sounds better than on my Roland FP30 and hidden acoustic piano resounds in decay much better than grands on my Kurzweil PC361.

Effects:
They are really do great job and make Reface really powerful and creative tool.
Examples: Digital delay can give you quite nice arpegiator. Drive knob can make sound really "dirty". 

The most important connections and powering by AA batteries make Reface very portable piano not only for making sketches and fun.
I am very happy so far.‎


Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II GP, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR.
Re: yamaha reface cp, anyone? [Re: Rychubil] #2750682
07/10/18 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Any bluetooth speaker is fine if it has a line input you can use, because then it bypasses the bluetooth function entirely anyway, so it's not doing any harm.

If is really like you mention, why my Bose Soundlink mini 2 plugged by 3,5mm jack cable to the FP30 issue latency?

I think the answer already become.
Previously I used standard, cheap 3.5mm jack cable connecting Bose with Roland FP-30. Now I pluged different, better quality OFC jack cable to Bose and FP-30 and also to Reface ...and latency disappeared!


Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II GP, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR.
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