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Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: hyena] #2744007
06/12/18 10:19 PM
06/12/18 10:19 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 324
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Jouishy
The French title is «Ah vous dirai-je maman». wink

But I must say I've always thought it was «dirais-je» (conditional, and not future).
....,.
This is partly why I find it really weird that it translated to "twinkle twinkle little star", which is very very different from the original lyrics. ^^


‘Twinkle, twinkle, little star’ is not a translation but lyrics from a 19th century English poem, set to the French melody

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkle,_Twinkle,_Little_Star

I've figured that it wasn't a translation. :P
I guess I miss-spoke. I meant that I'm surprised that the English version of the song has so different lyrics.

But I didn't know the origins, so thanks for the info. smile


Originally Posted by hyena
Originally Posted by Jouishy
I guess this is true. Still, many Disney songs (for instance) keep the meaning in the translation. But this is important in the context of a movie. This is not in the context of the child song.


Yeah indeed, though Disney doesn't just change the language though, they change a lot more to make it fit. Here watch this, the same Disney song played together in different languages. Skip to 14 minutes.



Interesting! I'll go watch the entire clip a little bit later. It seems a very interesting analysis.



My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Rameau, Les Sauvages
- (Classical piece TBD)
- Chopin, nocturne op. posth. in C# minor
- Debussy, Golliwog's cakewalk
- Pozzoli, E.R. 427, etude no. 6
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Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: hyena] #2744010
06/12/18 10:39 PM
06/12/18 10:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,747
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by hyena
. . .
Any tips on getting the rhythm as solid as stone?


Record your own playing, at a slow tempo. It's much easier to hear uneven playing in a recording, than when you're busy playing.

Slow down the piece, until you can play it all -- hard parts and easy parts -- at the same tempo. A metronome might be useful for that.

Then, _gradually_ (over many repetitions) speed it up:

. . . You shoud give the "hard parts" extra practice.

Identify the hardest section -- the one where you want to slow down the most. _Gradually_ work on speeding it up.

The tempo of the piece, when you perform it, shouldn't be any faster than you can play the hardest section.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: bennevis] #2744041
06/13/18 02:53 AM
06/13/18 02:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 170
England
Lillith Offline
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Jouishy

This is partly why I find it really weird that it translated to "twinkle twinkle little star", which is very very different from the original lyrics. ^^

Not as weird as "Baa baa black sheep".......


Haha, funny you should say that. I suddenly realised only last week as I was in the kitchen preparing tea that Twinkle twinkle and Baa Baa black sheep have the same tune!!!


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: Lillith] #2744051
06/13/18 04:07 AM
06/13/18 04:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 345
Netherlands
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hyena Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Lillith
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Jouishy

This is partly why I find it really weird that it translated to "twinkle twinkle little star", which is very very different from the original lyrics. ^^

Not as weird as "Baa baa black sheep".......


Haha, funny you should say that. I suddenly realised only last week as I was in the kitchen preparing tea that Twinkle twinkle and Baa Baa black sheep have the same tune!!!


Also the ABCDEFG song smile

Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: hyena] #2744052
06/13/18 04:11 AM
06/13/18 04:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 170
England
Lillith Offline
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Lillith  Offline
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England
Originally Posted by hyena

Also the ABCDEFG song smile


Aaaarrrggghhh!!! I hadn't realised that one either smile
Hope there aren't any more!!


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: Lillith] #2744054
06/13/18 04:28 AM
06/13/18 04:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 369
Just outside London UK
akc42 Offline
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Originally Posted by Lillith


Haha, funny you should say that. I suddenly realised only last week as I was in the kitchen preparing tea that Twinkle twinkle and Baa Baa black sheep have the same tune!!!


Not in my versions they don't. They are similar but

In C Major Twinkle = C C G G A A G F F E E D D C
Baa Baa = C C G G A B C(oct) A G F F E E D D C

Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: akc42] #2744056
06/13/18 04:48 AM
06/13/18 04:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 170
England
Lillith Offline
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Lillith  Offline
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England
Originally Posted by akc42
Originally Posted by Lillith


Haha, funny you should say that. I suddenly realised only last week as I was in the kitchen preparing tea that Twinkle twinkle and Baa Baa black sheep have the same tune!!!


Not in my versions they don't. They are similar but

In C Major Twinkle = C C G G A A G F F E E D D C
Baa Baa = C C G G A B C(oct) A G F F E E D D C



Haha!!
That's well near enough for an amateur like me to be called the same smile
would you settle for 'a variation on'?


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: hyena] #2744062
06/13/18 05:36 AM
06/13/18 05:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 529
Bristol, UK
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timmyab Offline
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Bristol, UK
What I would recommened is that you slow down the tempo until you can play the notes evenly, both in terms of tempo and volume. If that means playing half speed then that's fine. The worst thing you can do is to practice inaccuracies because they become intrenched. Much better to practice slowly and accurately and gradually increase the metronome tempo. Keep recording yourself and slow down again if you hear too much uneveness creaping back in. Don't worry if there is some small amount of uneveness, it's a challenge with Mozart that is very difficult to master.
Finger exercises are useful for playing Mozart, Hanon and suchlike.

Last edited by timmyab; 06/13/18 05:38 AM.
Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: hyena] #2744085
06/13/18 08:33 AM
06/13/18 08:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 170
England
Lillith Offline
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Lillith  Offline
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England
@hyena
I think that the main problem is one I and most other new pianists share with you - you play the easy bits fast and the harder bits slow.
It really is a pain to slow everything down to the pace of your slowest/hardest bit (well I find it very very very hard) but the experts do say that is what we have to do and I'm trying my best.

I've just got a copy of the sheet music and your effort has inspired me to have a go myself. smile
It's ranked grade 5, from what I can tell, and I'm nowhere near that, but heigh ho, nothing ventured..... smile


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: hyena] #2744095
06/13/18 09:31 AM
06/13/18 09:31 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,240
Florida
cmb13 Online sleepy
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Florida
Hyena, after reading the initial comments I expected to hear a mess, but then after a few hours I went back, read some more comments, and listened myself. I wasn't familiar with the title but of course I am familiar with the basic tune. While I am nowhere near qualified to give technical feedback but felt I would post a positive comment. I enjoyed it and was pleasantly surprised but the music. Yes, a little steadier tempo will help; that is something which I struggle with at times, particularly in fast runs or (relatively) complex pieces. By and large, though, it seems like you're notes are accurate and the phrasing is decent. I think it's well on it's way. Keep it up!

Btw I just began Mozart's K545. The truth is I really don't like this era at all; I greatly prefer the Romantic era, with it's dynamics, rubato, and expression. However, my teacher felt it would be important to develop the skill to play faster runs at a steady pace, and that it would help me advance in the era that I do prefer, rounding out my limited skill set. I'm not excited about this undertaking; it feels more like work than fun. Point is, it seems to me these pieces have a unique technical challenge to them, rapidity and evenness that takes a lot of work.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

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Chopin 28:15
Tchaikovsky Seasons: October

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: hyena] #2744108
06/13/18 10:19 AM
06/13/18 10:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,579
Canada
keystring Offline
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Canada
Hyena, thank you for answering - I'm a big delayed in responding.
Originally Posted by hyena
Originally Posted by keystring
Hyena, how are you practising right now? What is your process? For example, do you chunk into smaller sections - analyze the piece first so that you can plan how to work on it in stages - look at areas of weaknesses and how to go at that strategically?
I think (?) I hear improvements from when you first came on with your playing, and you seem to have worked hard. Not that my ear is the best. It takes courage to put yourself out there like that.


I do practice variations individually, though I should really chunk it down even more. I've done slow practice before with this piece too! Though, I think I've kind of lost the rhythm again.

So usually when I start playing, I first play the entire piece first. Then when I notice a bump, I go to that variation, trying to get the bump out. As for rhythm... I don't think I do much for rhythm at all, sometimes I do put on the metronome, or play it slow, but it isn't part of my practice habit.

For the rest it's quite chaotic, I work a little on the first part of the variation 1, then maybe 3, then maybe the second part of 2.

When you first appeared on PW, you gave an example of your earlier playing and I watched it then. Being self-taught, you had the same kind of "spontaneous flow" that I had when I self-taught as a kid, your own way ofc, and thus missing other bits that are more in the fundamentals side, which I also relate to. I learned very late that there is such a thing as approach and such. It's a vast topic. "effective practice" yields some tidbits in this forum. Dr. Mortensen's videos may not be ideal, and tedious, because they're aimed at his own students, but there may be clues there as well.

There are a lot of things you can do, and I don't know if they can be set out in one swoop here. For the playthrough - that may be good if you do it, pencil in hand (do you read, or are you going from recordings?), marking out things as you go along. After that, the practice in sections, building it. That is a topic that I can't flesh out here. I learned an approach that has two aspects: chunking and layers. The "chunk" means the sections that you are working on. The "layer" means the element that you are working on. Timing is an element, dynamics and touch are two other elements, pedal for pieces that have pedal can be another element. For those of us who are by nature "spontaneous", work that is un-spontaneous and in a sense un-musical, after which we pull in some of the musical feeling again, this seems to build a kind of scaffolding or backbone to our work. For me the jump in quality and effectiveness was audible, and it also took me less time to reach things. I'm still learning. smile

Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: Lillith] #2744128
06/13/18 11:32 AM
06/13/18 11:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 170
England
Lillith Offline
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Lillith  Offline
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England
Originally Posted by Lillith
Originally Posted by hyena

Also the ABCDEFG song smile


Aaaarrrggghhh!!! I hadn't realised that one either smile
Hope there aren't any more!!


while pruning the roses, I spotted a lovely female ghost moth on my wall smile
I also remembered a little nursery song to the same tune :

Little Arabella Miller
Found a furry caterpillar
First it crawled upon her mother
Then upon her baby brother
Oh said Arabella Miller
Take away that caterpillar.

No doubt the length and breadth of Europe, there are countless little songs set to that same tune smile


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: Feedback on Mozart: A Vous dirais je maman [Re: keystring] #2744134
06/13/18 11:52 AM
06/13/18 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 345
Netherlands
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hyena Offline OP
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Originally Posted by keystring
When you first appeared on PW, you gave an example of your earlier playing and I watched it then. Being self-taught, you had the same kind of "spontaneous flow" that I had when I self-taught as a kid, your own way ofc, and thus missing other bits that are more in the fundamentals side, which I also relate to. I learned very late that there is such a thing as approach and such. It's a vast topic. "effective practice" yields some tidbits in this forum. Dr. Mortensen's videos may not be ideal, and tedious, because they're aimed at his own students, but there may be clues there as well


I read! Though, I'm not very good at reading yet, only been reading for 1.5 year. But I'm making some progress, I can finally sightread some of the Tchaikovsky Jugend album! But because of that, my teacher doesn't recommend me playing pieces I know. But I remember all pieces I can play by heart. So I hope to come to a point where I can just read a piece, without actually remembering the notes.

As for practice methods, I've been learning a lot due to the Bach inventions. I don't think I don't know how to practice well, it's more about getting it into my habits, applying that knowledge.

---

Anyway, thanks a lot for all replies!

To summarize. I will put the metronome on about 150BPM, though play the 16th notes as 4ths. I suppose playing them staccato will help with the rhythm too? As for musicality, making sure the accent is in 2/2 time.

When I'm finished I'll record all of the 12 variations to show the result.

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