Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
80 registered members (AprilE, 90125, Beowulf, Artur Gajewski, 7uturu, 19 invisible), 898 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743091
06/08/18 03:27 PM
06/08/18 03:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 723
Wisconsin, USA
L
Lakeviewsteve Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lakeviewsteve  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 723
Wisconsin, USA
Moo, another thought for you since people are talking about transcriptions. Have any of your instructors mentioned anything to you about original scores as written by the composer? They are usually in what is called Urtext versions where scholars have researched original archives, original publishings, and other sources to help ensure the composers original music is published?

The simplified versions or transcriptions are not what the composer wrote if that is important to you. I wish my instructors taught me about this during my many years of studying. All they said was something was "original" but I didn't really understand that much until I discovered how incredible the Urtext editions published by G. Henle Verlag, Wiener Urtext, and others are. Many people posting on this site don't believe Urtext editions are special, but I certainly do.

Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/08/18 03:29 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2743101
06/08/18 04:41 PM
06/08/18 04:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Moo, another thought for you since people are talking about transcriptions. Have any of your instructors mentioned anything to you about original scores as written by the composer? They are usually in what is called Urtext versions where scholars have researched original archives, original publishings, and other sources to help ensure the composers original music is published?

The simplified versions or transcriptions are not what the composer wrote if that is important to you. I wish my instructors taught me about this during my many years of studying.

I hope you're not conflating "simplified arrangements" with non-Urtext or with transcriptions.

The three are entirely different. I'd never play any simplified arrangements by anybody of existing piano/lkeyboard music - in fact, I don't think I have since Grade 1, but I'd happily play from non-Urtext scores. And unlike Sviatoslav Richter, I also play transcriptions by great composers like Liszt and Busoni - and Rachmaninov himself -, and have no qualms about playing my own transcriptions either. If I possess a score which is Urtext, it's by accident, not by design.

Even my score of Gaspard de la nuit (Durand © 1909) doesn't say Urtext in any language, but I presume it is, though the low notes in Scarbo that should have been below bottom A have been altered to allow the use of an 88-key piano. Did the composer (who had a ninety-key Érard grand that went down to bottom G) sanction that?

Of course, if I have a Böse Imperial, I'd play the notes he intended.......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743103
06/08/18 04:56 PM
06/08/18 04:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
This is Rachmaninoff playing Rachmaninov's transcription for piano of the song Lilacs by Sergei Rachmaninov wink :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72xh91KTOOA


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: bennevis] #2743156
06/09/18 02:06 AM
06/09/18 02:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 120
D
deerfield Offline
Full Member
deerfield  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by bennevis
This is Rachmaninoff playing Rachmaninov's transcription for piano of the song Lilacs by Sergei Rachmaninov wink :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72xh91KTOOA


Thanks for this lovely gem. I googled the sheet music, and it turns out there is a volume of Rachmaninoff transcriptions of his own works and those other composers, published by Alfred, which includes “Daisies” and “Lilacs” as well as famous pieces of other composers which seems very interesting. Probably not suitable for beginners or intermediate players, but adding a Rachmaninoff scented flourish to the transcription is definitely worth investigating.

https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/transcriptions-sheet-music/1551675?utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o1&gclid=CjwKCAjw0ujYBRBDEiwAn7BKt-Um2GTmtjgkFvdv11DJY3c6SIdibtE2S8ntvR7o3W-z_eyZ-HyQWRoCVgwQAvD_BwE&d=sem_sidecar&d=sem_sidecar&d=sem_ggl_%7Bcampaign_id%7D_&popup=false&popup=false&utm_source=google&ac=1&country_code=USA&sc_intid=1551675&scid=scplp1551675


The moment one feels that the finger must sing, it becomes strong.
-Horowitz
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: deerfield] #2743195
06/09/18 08:39 AM
06/09/18 08:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
Originally Posted by deerfield
it turns out there is a volume of Rachmaninoff transcriptions of his own works and those other composers, published by Alfred, which includes “Daisies” and “Lilacs” as well as famous pieces of other composers which seems very interesting.

For the curious, this is Rach's take on Bach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbTqEYrolQk

...........and this is the original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VOkrddp6M8

Bach/Rach is played occasionally, but is not as popular as his take on Kreisler (Liebesleid and Liebesfreud). His spicing of Bach's (implied) harmonies is somewhat more of an acquired taste than his Kreisler arrangements - after all, Fritz was a near-contemporary, and they performed & recorded together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osgKvDsPJ-o


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743214
06/09/18 10:36 AM
06/09/18 10:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
M
Moo :) Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
Thank you for the clips, it has turned into a interesting and educational thread. I have a lot of research to do before I pick my next piece.

I only know one transcription so I thought I would share smile

Rachmaninoff transcribed this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHTV3GFyHfM

Into piano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ch0k9_eiA&fmt=18

x

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: bennevis] #2743537
06/10/18 08:52 PM
06/10/18 08:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 723
Wisconsin, USA
L
Lakeviewsteve Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lakeviewsteve  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 723
Wisconsin, USA
Benevis I'm obviously not the expert like you but I stand by what I posted. Thanks for adding. I don't believe I said anything about not liking transcriptions. Earl Wild's transcriptions of Rachmaninoff are great. I was talking about Urtext in case the op wasn't aware of them. Is that alright with you?

Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/10/18 08:58 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743587
06/11/18 06:41 AM
06/11/18 06:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 102
Estonia
Muhwu Offline
Full Member
Muhwu  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 102
Estonia
Definitely do "Fragments", I am learning that right now and it seems, by far, the most approachable Rachmaninoff piece. He is my favorite composer as well and everything he composed, as you know, is relatively hard. With the exception of Fragments (It has its challenges, but it is a short 1 or 2 page piece depending on arrangement).


"My dear hands. Farewell, my poor hands."
-Sergei Rachmaninoff

Estonia 190
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743625
06/11/18 11:22 AM
06/11/18 11:22 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,416
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,416
New York City

Some good suggestions so far and some that I think are not even close to the easiest Rach pieces. Besides the Fiorentino Vocalise transcription I previously mentioned which one can obtain with screenshots of the video, I would go with the Preludes in D major, B major, and G flat major. The last two have not been mentioned yet I think. IMO the Preludes in F# major, B minor, and C# Minor and Fragments are reasonable choices also.

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743640
06/11/18 12:28 PM
06/11/18 12:28 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,416
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,416
New York City

Also suggesting the Prelude in E flat Major.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/11/18 12:28 PM.
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743705
06/11/18 05:33 PM
06/11/18 05:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
M
Moo :) Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
Thank you for the suggestions.

I think I found one that is doable for me and sounds quite fun.

Its No. 2 Waltz in A major from the suggestions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtQkrccGw_A

What do you think ?

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743727
06/11/18 06:38 PM
06/11/18 06:38 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,416
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,416
New York City
Originally Posted by Moo :)
Thank you for the suggestions.

I think I found one that is doable for me and sounds quite fun.

Its No. 2 Waltz in A major from the suggestions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtQkrccGw_A

What do you think ?
If you like that piece quite a bit then it's fine. OTOH I think that some of these very early Rach works are so little performed because many don't think highly of them.

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: pianoloverus] #2743895
06/12/18 12:28 PM
06/12/18 12:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 723
Wisconsin, USA
L
Lakeviewsteve Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lakeviewsteve  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 723
Wisconsin, USA

.
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Moo :)
Thank you for the suggestions.

I think I found one that is doable for me and sounds quite fun.

Its No. 2 Waltz in A major from the suggestions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtQkrccGw_A

What do you think ?
If you like that piece quite a bit then it's fine. OTOH I think that some of these very early Rach works are so little performed because many don't think highly of them.


Who are these many people that don't think highly of them? Rather than true I think it very rude.


Bösendorfer 170
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2743911
06/12/18 01:41 PM
06/12/18 01:41 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,416
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,416
New York City
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve

.
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Moo :)
Thank you for the suggestions.

I think I found one that is doable for me and sounds quite fun.

Its No. 2 Waltz in A major from the suggestions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtQkrccGw_A

What do you think ?
If you like that piece quite a bit then it's fine. OTOH I think that some of these very early Rach works are so little performed because many don't think highly of them.


Who are these many people that don't think highly of them? Rather than true I think it very rude.
Just look on YouTube and you'll see that the Nocturne has few performances by major pianists so I think it's clearly true. I've also never seen it on a recital program played in NYC for the last 50 years or so. Some of his early pieces are played a lot and are quite good but IMO this is not one of them. I simply wanted to make sure the OP wasn't
t choosing it only because it was "doable" since I think there are equally doable pieces of higher quality.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/12/18 01:44 PM.
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743960
06/12/18 05:25 PM
06/12/18 05:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
M
Moo :) Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
yes perhaps that is correct. probably focusing too much on doable rather than pick my fav piece. ok i will put the rach on the backburner. my fav was polichinelle, i'm not sure i have the agility at the moment for it. i played a march by grieg and it takes ages to get the agility to play it. thank you all for the tips.

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2744068
06/13/18 05:22 AM
06/13/18 05:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 528
Bristol, UK
T
timmyab Offline
500 Post Club Member
timmyab  Offline
500 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 528
Bristol, UK
I'd say that's a good decision Moo. Much better to spend some time on one of the 'easier' preludes where you can start to learn to conquer some of the typical Rachmaninoff technical hurdles, even if you don't finnish it this time. The preludes all have that distinctive Rachmaninoff sound too that the waltz lacked in my opinion. I would have guessed Chopin smile

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2754478
07/29/18 07:32 AM
07/29/18 07:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
M
Moo :) Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
I have started learning my first Rachmaninoff piece after all.



My lesson next lesson is not for a while so anyone can help I have two questions :

1) I forgot to ask about pedal - are there any pedal recommendations or is it sounding ok ?

2) Any idea how to play the left hand 3rd last bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=332&v=ElYS7lyJ3O4

Here is the sheet music above. This one is really bugging me. I have tried to work it out but now I am really confused. I'm not sure how to play as there are '3' markings over most of the beats. Also in the left hand we have a second '3' marking over two crotchets in 2nd and 4th beat. Help plz.

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2754481
07/29/18 08:30 AM
07/29/18 08:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
Originally Posted by Moo :)
2) Any idea how to play the left hand 3rd last bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=332&v=ElYS7lyJ3O4

Here is the sheet music above. This one is really bugging me. I have tried to work it out but now I am really confused. I'm not sure how to play as there are '3' markings over most of the beats. Also in the left hand we have a second '3' marking over two crotchets in 2nd and 4th beat. Help plz.

There are several triplets in each 'voice', some of them overlapping.

A triplet is three note values in the time of two.

So, in the top line ('soprano' line), you have a minim and a crotchet to be played in the time of two crotchets. On the line below it, still in RH, you have the second group of three quavers (all in thirds) to be played in the time of two quavers within the tripletized whole as per the soprano line.

Ditto for the LH notes.

But bear in mind that the whole bar is already 'tripletized', therefore you have triplets within triplets, as indicated by the triplet signs top and bottom (soprano and bass lines). In other words, the second line in RH (with the thirds) has six quavers to be played in the time of four quavers, but with the second group of three quavers to be played within the time of two quavers within the tripletized whole.

Probably best to think of that bar in 6/4 time rather than 4/4, then you can remove the triplet signs on the top and bottom. But make sure the whole bar is played in the same period of time as the preceding bar with no triplets.

Quote
in the left hand we have a second '3' marking over two crotchets in 2nd and 4th beat

That's not over two crotchets, that's over a quaver rest and a crotchet, i.e. three quavers in the time of two (the crotchet in the bass line) - just as in the first group of triplets. Remember, that's the 'tenor line' with upward pointing stems.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2754524
07/29/18 12:48 PM
07/29/18 12:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600
M
Moo :) Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 600

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2754525
07/29/18 12:59 PM
07/29/18 12:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,253
Originally Posted by Moo :)

Er......yes (though I had to hang upside down from the ceiling to read it wink )


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  BB Player 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
ad
Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Lessons Online

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Single violin or cello voice on DP?
by Novembre. 01/22/19 09:40 PM
Testers for new Piano app
by PianoLIT. 01/22/19 08:33 PM
any backing tracks styles app for piano play?
by ander. 01/22/19 06:17 PM
Getting my first expensive Piano - Kawai CA 78?
by DevNoteHQ. 01/22/19 04:36 PM
Used digital pianos: Yamaha P-140?
by tcquinn. 01/22/19 04:16 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,739
Posts2,784,920
Members92,196
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2