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Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice #2743411
06/10/18 11:42 AM
06/10/18 11:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 18
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almo82 Offline OP
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almo82  Offline OP
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I've been looking my upgrade an upright to a smallish Grand (~6') , and have set a budget for it of about $20,000.

My current instrument is a Petrof 131 Purchased new roughly 15 years ago after a very long search.

Unfortunately, at this budget I have not been able to identify a find a suitable instrument yet: The Budget Was determined based on my memory of prices from the time I Purchased the Petrof. Back then, you could could get one of the smaller Grands from Petrof, or a comparable make for roughly that kind of money.

My observations so far:

1. Petrof's prices have gone through the roof in the past 20 years - the quote I got was about the same I got for a Schimmel, which in my opinion, is a far better instrument. Schimmel, however, is out of my budget. 20 years ago, you could get a Petrof Grand (The "Model V" as it was then called started at 13K - See Larry Fine's Piano book, 3rd edition - I'm that old..... :-) )

2. Other comparable instruments I've tried did not impress me enough to consider worth the upgrade - none of them provided any significant advantage over my current instrument - hence no point in making the investment. I've tried most of the high end Chinese instruments (Hailun, Rutmiller, Feurich), as well as the lower-cost Yamaha's and Kawais.


3. Another disappointment was the Hoffmans (once called Bohemia, i believe , as well a few others names - made in a Czech factory now owned by Bosie) - however, the ones I've tried were disappointing. Perhaps I should try another dealer?

4. Best so far have been the Boston 161 - for which I was quoted ~$26K, or the similarly priced but slightly larger Kawai GX2 - which I liked less.

Questions:

1. Am I correct in concluding that my only choice are to to give up, or set a higher budget (again, ~$20K)

2. Is there a Make I may have missed and should look into?

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Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743422
06/10/18 12:50 PM
06/10/18 12:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,696
Finland
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outo Offline
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outo  Offline
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Finland
Have you looked at Estonia? Their 168 model is really lovely. Might be over your budget though, don't know about the US prices.

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743429
06/10/18 01:29 PM
06/10/18 01:29 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,499
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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terminaldegree  Offline
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A good Petrof 131, that is properly cared for, is a formidable vertical piano that sounds better than many small grands.
For informational purposes, the association with Hoffmann is Bechstein, not Bosendorfer, but it sounds like that's not your piano, either.

I'm afraid you'll probably need to increase your budget a bit in order to find something that's markedly better than what you have now, or shop used (and have things checked out very carefully). Are you going to use the proceeds of selling your current Petrof toward the grand purchase? What do you think you could get for it?

Outo, the current street price of an Estonia 168 is much more than $20k in the US. Are you saying it's that cheap as a new piano in Finland?


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743440
06/10/18 02:14 PM
06/10/18 02:14 PM
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almo82 Offline OP
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TERMINAL: I stand corrected - you are right, of course, Bohemia is owned by Bechstein, not Bosendorfer.

OUTO: I'm London, UK, and Haven't seen Estonia's offered here (Any Brits here if you can correct me on this, please do ). That said, I have heard good things about them - and would be happy to try.

How much is an Estonia in Finland? from London, Finland is a close enough flight that it's worth the Journey, if the price is right. Talinn isn't too far away either..


N.B. Apparently, the Estonia question in the UK has been asked before, : http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1757681/New_Estonia_Pianos_no_UK_agent.html

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Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743446
06/10/18 02:24 PM
06/10/18 02:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 542
Wisconsin, USA
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Lakeviewsteve Offline
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Sorry you are frustrated but keep at it and I'm sure you will be successful.

Bösendorfer has nothing to do with Hoffman pianos, I think you meant C. Bechstein. There is no such piano called Bosie. Do you call Steinways Steins?

Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/10/18 02:27 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743468
06/10/18 03:58 PM
06/10/18 03:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,534
Bulgaria
PhilipInChina Offline
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Bulgaria
No, I call them overpriced.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: terminaldegree] #2743499
06/10/18 06:24 PM
06/10/18 06:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,696
Finland
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outo Offline
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Finland
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
A good Petrof 131, that is properly cared for, is a formidable vertical piano that sounds better than many small grands.
For informational purposes, the association with Hoffmann is Bechstein, not Bosendorfer, but it sounds like that's not your piano, either.

I'm afraid you'll probably need to increase your budget a bit in order to find something that's markedly better than what you have now, or shop used (and have things checked out very carefully). Are you going to use the proceeds of selling your current Petrof toward the grand purchase? What do you think you could get for it?

Outo, the current street price of an Estonia 168 is much more than $20k in the US. Are you saying it's that cheap as a new piano in Finland?

No, but pianos are generally much more expensive here.

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743502
06/10/18 06:30 PM
06/10/18 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,696
Finland
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by almo82
TERMINAL: I stand corrected - you are right, of course, Bohemia is owned by Bechstein, not Bosendorfer.

OUTO: I'm London, UK, and Haven't seen Estonia's offered here (Any Brits here if you can correct me on this, please do ). That said, I have heard good things about them - and would be happy to try.

How much is an Estonia in Finland? from London, Finland is a close enough flight that it's worth the Journey, if the price is right. Talinn isn't too far away either..


N.B. Apparently, the Estonia question in the UK has been asked before, : http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1757681/New_Estonia_Pianos_no_UK_agent.html



There are no agents in Finland either. But you can contact the factory directly. I visited there years ago when looking for a grand and really liked them.

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743632
06/11/18 12:47 PM
06/11/18 12:47 PM
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almo82 Offline OP
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almo82  Offline OP
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Thanks Outo,

I will try contacting the factory and revert

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743668
06/11/18 03:59 PM
06/11/18 03:59 PM
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almo82 Offline OP
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Term: i will indeed put my current Petrof on sale. Various fealers have quoted m in $2500-3000 range.

Think I can do better?

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743741
06/11/18 08:20 PM
06/11/18 08:20 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,499
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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If it's not overly used up, kept in a good humidity environment, recently tuned and at pitch, and has had some voicing and regulation done, I would value that piano at $4,000 or more (just off the top of my head, based on zero research). In the $3,000-4,000 range, shoppers will run into older grey market Yamahas and Kawais at dealers, and this piano could compare quite favorably by comparison.

What did you buy it for in the first place, $7-8k?


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743908
06/12/18 02:37 PM
06/12/18 02:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 18
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almo82 Offline OP
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almo82  Offline OP
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Terminal, thanks for the useful advice: I will let you know how I get on.

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2743998
06/12/18 09:40 PM
06/12/18 09:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105
Norway
S
Skjalg Online content

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Skjalg  Online Content

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Norway
As outo suggsted, Estonia might be a good option. Tallinn is well worth a visit. Most of their pianos go to the US it seems. Since there are no UK dealership for Estonia, you could buy factory direct. I believe the factory is closed in July.

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2744081
06/13/18 07:57 AM
06/13/18 07:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
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almo82 Offline OP
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almo82  Offline OP
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Thanks Skjalg and Outo - I will reach out to Estonia, and will update on Progress

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2744089
06/13/18 08:55 AM
06/13/18 08:55 AM
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almo82 Offline OP
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Besides Estonia, any suggestions on a make should explore?

Re: Frustrated Grand Upgrade - advice [Re: almo82] #2744131
06/13/18 11:39 AM
06/13/18 11:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105
Norway
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Skjalg Online content

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You could opt for a restored or reconditioned grand. You could probably find a decent grand from
C. Bechstein
Blüthner
Bösendorfer
Seiler
Ibach
Feurich (German)
and others.

Most of these are reasonably common in the UK, especially the first two. Personally I never fully enjoyed the restored grands I have tried, but they do look tempting.
As an example from Roberts Piano in Oxford (I believe):
https://www.robertspianos.com/ldetails.php?RP=2180516&make=Bosendorfer&model=170
If you have the extra money you could recondition it.


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