Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
New in our online store...
Tea Light
Tea Light with Frosted Music Staff Candle Holder


-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
114 registered members (Aaron W, Alex Hutor, anotherscott, agraffe, almo82, 26 invisible), 1,290 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major #2743285
06/09/18 07:46 PM
06/09/18 07:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 87
E
ee375 Offline OP
Full Member
ee375  Offline OP
Full Member
E
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 87
I need some help with the key sequences and timing of the base notes on these two measures. First, are the key sequences correct? Second, where are the base notes/chords played?

Var II - Measure 2 (around the turn)
[img]https://pix.sfly.com/-Ft7EN[/img]

BB A Bb A G A Bb
chord between first A and Bb or on second A?


Var II - Measure 15 (around the trill)
[img]https://pix.sfly.com/bm65BV[/img]

F# G A G F# G A Bb
note on last G or on last A?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major [Re: ee375] #2743288
06/09/18 08:08 PM
06/09/18 08:08 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
The most important thing to do here is make sure that the bass notes - not "base" - are played in time. In the first example, the C is a half-beat starting on beat one, so that the two following chords are also played on the half-beat. The same pattern repeats for the second half of the measure.

one, and two and three and four and. Similarly in the second example.

The turn is inserted after the first beat, but in time so that the last note of of the first beat (sixteenth-note) is played in time after the half beat. Same with the trill.

At first, practice without the turn and the trill until you get the timing exact.

This is so much easier to illustrate at the piano than to try to explain in words.

Regards,





BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major [Re: ee375] #2744521
06/14/18 08:11 PM
06/14/18 08:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 87
E
ee375 Offline OP
Full Member
ee375  Offline OP
Full Member
E
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 87
Quote
At first, practice without the turn and the trill until you get the timing exact.

This suggestion was very helpful. I've go it down now with the turns and trills. Thank you.

On the same piece there seems to be an error in my scores for Var III Measure 14. It shows playing Eb and Enatural simultaneously. I have two different scores and both show this same possible conflict. It sounds better with the Enatural. Any advice?

[img]https://pix.sfly.com/SRu36e[/img]

Re: Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major [Re: ee375] #2744566
06/14/18 10:09 PM
06/14/18 10:09 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
No, it's not an error. If you look a little more closely at your score, you will find the same three-note chord in the 2nd, 6th and 10th measures of this variation as well as in the 14th measure: C, E-flat and E-natural being played together.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
Re: Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major [Re: ee375] #2745001
06/16/18 11:35 PM
06/16/18 11:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 87
E
ee375 Offline OP
Full Member
ee375  Offline OP
Full Member
E
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 87
Quote
No, it's not an error. If you look a little more closely at your score, you will find the same three-note chord in the 2nd, 6th and 10th measures of this variation as well as in the 14th measure: C, E-flat and E-natural being played together.

I see the simultaneous C, Eb, Enat in measures 10 and 14 in the second 3-note chord. But in measure 2 and 6 the Eb and Enat occur but not simultaneously. Am I missing something?

In the 1st triplet of measures 10 and 14 the Eb in the middle 3-note chord is shown in both the treble and bass clefs . Isn't this just a 2-note chord? Why is the 2nd Eb also shown in both clefs?

Re: Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major [Re: ee375] #2745017
06/17/18 02:33 AM
06/17/18 02:33 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
Here is the second measure of Var. III:

[Linked Image]

Of course the E-flat and E-natural (left hand) are played simultaneously. Why would you think otherwise?

Regards,

Last edited by BruceD; 06/17/18 02:35 AM.

BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major [Re: ee375] #2745019
06/17/18 02:49 AM
06/17/18 02:49 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by ee375
[...]
In the 1st triplet of measures 10 and 14 the Eb in the middle 3-note chord is shown in both the treble and bass clefs . Isn't this just a 2-note chord? Why is the 2nd Eb also shown in both clefs?


[Linked Image]

I think you mean the second group of triplets. The second chord in the second group of triplets in measure ten is, indeed, C, E-flat and E-flat. What Schubert is showing here is that the left hand accompaniment consists of two notes C and E-flat (three times) while the top note - called the top voice in this case - is F, E-flat, G. So yes, in theory the accompaniment E-flat and the top voice E-flat coincide giving us in actuality a two-note chord.

This type of writing where two voices or sometimes one voice and an accompanying note are actually the same note occurs often, particularly in, but not limited to, Baroque and Classical writing, even more often where there is a Fugue and two voices momentarily land on one note. It's still two voices sounding the same note.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major [Re: ee375] #2745074
06/17/18 10:42 AM
06/17/18 10:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 87
E
ee375 Offline OP
Full Member
ee375  Offline OP
Full Member
E
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 87
Measure 2:
Quote
Of course the E-flat and E-natural (left hand) are played simultaneously. Why would you think otherwise?

My mistake. I was reading the E-flat as a separate note and not part of the C, E-flat, E-nat chord. That would put an extra note in the triplet - wrong.

BTW - both of my scores show the last chord in the 2nd triplet as C,G and not C,E,G.

Measure 10:
Quote
What Schubert is showing here is that the left hand accompaniment consists of two notes C and E-flat (three times) while the top note - called the top voice in this case - is F, E-flat, G.

I understand what you are saying. But does this have any effect on how it is played? The chords in the 2nd triplet are actually played C,Eb,F then C,Eb then C,Eb,G, correct?

Re: Schubert Impromptu in B Flat Major [Re: ee375] #2745114
06/17/18 01:44 PM
06/17/18 01:44 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,272
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by ee375
[...]I understand what you are saying. But does this have any effect on how it is played? The chords in the 2nd triplet are actually played C,Eb,F then C,Eb then C,Eb,G, correct?


The only thing you should be aware of is that all through this Variation, with the exception of the bass note on the first and third beats, the upper notes of the left hand chords constitute a counter-melody, softer than the melody in the right hand, but a counter-melody nevertheless that needs to be brought out slightly. So, in effect when you arrive at that point, the top line continues to be played just slightly louder than the other notes in the left hand chords. You should clearly hear the counter-melody: F, E-natural, F, E-flat, G, just as you should hear the counter-melody throughout the Variation.

So, in effect, yes; there is a difference in how the chord is played; top note slightly louder than the other lower note(s).

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai RX6 heavy action
by Radio.Octave. 06/23/18 03:50 PM
Accident-prone accidentals in printed music
by FrankCox. 06/23/18 02:01 PM
Reyburn Grand Cyberhammer
by Miguel Rey. 06/23/18 12:37 PM
Should I say goodbye?
by eyeluvlucy. 06/23/18 11:48 AM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Steingraeber
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics186,108
Posts2,726,909
Members90,435
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1