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A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? #2743063
06/08/18 03:19 PM
06/08/18 03:19 PM
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Foster City, CA, US
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Ken Iisaka Offline OP
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I've been on the market for a piano for a while, and I came across this:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/msg/6610914528.html

I am incredulous that such a vastly inflated value would be stated... shamelessly!

Looking around, there are plenty of SF-10s in the teens.

I've encountered hopelessly optimistic pricing, but this is bordering on insanity!

Oh, yeah, there was a million dollar grand piano on craigslist not long ago as well, now 100k... And there are pianos which seem to stay on the market for months, if not years.

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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743064
06/08/18 03:29 PM
06/08/18 03:29 PM
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Hi Ken
According to the ad, the piano was recently appraised. My guess then is that the owners are relying on the appraised value to set the sales price; Actually feel quite sorry for them if this is the case because they are in for a rude awakening of the value. Shame on the appraiser!


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743065
06/08/18 03:29 PM
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Will it sell? That is the $64,000 question!

There are appraisals for insurance purposes, which are often higher than what one would pay if one were buying the same item when it became available, not when it needs to be replaced.


Semipro Tech
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: BDB] #2743075
06/08/18 03:47 PM
06/08/18 03:47 PM
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Foster City, CA, US
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Ken Iisaka Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BDB
Will it sell? That is the $64,000 question!

There are appraisals for insurance purposes, which are often higher than what one would pay if one were buying the same item when it became available, not when it needs to be replaced.


Sure, but a new Baldwin SF-10, if you can find one, isn't $118k, either! That's even more than a new Steinway B!!!

I feel sorry for the seller if s/he was being misled.

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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743077
06/08/18 03:51 PM
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I see several restorers and rebuilders post the retail value of say a new instrument on their websites. Living Pianos does this and I think Chupps does this as well. The list they price of a "brand new" Steinway or Mason Hamlin of that model, and then te price of their rebuild. That's probably what they're basing the price on.

Right now, Living Pianos has a Steinway D (1967) listed at $73,599 but the $164,100 (new) price is marked out. A M&H CC2 for $43,775 with the $139,302 (new) price marked out. He has a Baldwin SD (1932) for $27,579 with $103,979 marked out.

Checking the official Baldwin sight, the SD10 is listed @ $103,500 and the SF10 @ $76,500. All of the classic Baldwin models are still listed on their website along side the new BP models. But do they still make them? Maybe Steve Cohen will chime in. He seems to be the PW contributor who chimes in with official new about the current Baldwins.

Last edited by GC13; 06/08/18 03:52 PM.
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: BDB] #2743078
06/08/18 03:52 PM
06/08/18 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BDB
Will it sell? That is the $64,000 question!


thumb ha


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: GC13] #2743083
06/08/18 04:05 PM
06/08/18 04:05 PM
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Foster City, CA, US
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Originally Posted by GC13
I see several restorers and rebuilders post the retail value of say a new instrument on their websites. Living Pianos does this and I think Chupps does this as well. The list they price of a "brand new" Steinway or Mason Hamlin of that model, and then te price of their rebuild. That's probably what they're basing the price on.

Right now, Living Pianos has a Steinway D (1967) listed at $73,599 but the $164,100 (new) price is marked out. A M&H CC2 for $43,775 with the $139,302 (new) price marked out. He has a Baldwin SD (1932) for $27,579 with $103,979 marked out.

Checking the official Baldwin sight, the SD10 is listed @ $103,500 and the SF10 @ $76,500. All of the classic Baldwin models are still listed on their website along side the new BP models. But do they still make them? Maybe Steve Cohen will chime in. He seems to be the PW contributor who chimes in with official new about the current Baldwins.


I thinks that's a fair practice, but to state that a brand new SF is $118k is dishonest. Well, some of the MSRPs are so over-inflated, too...

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: GC13] #2743085
06/08/18 04:09 PM
06/08/18 04:09 PM
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Probably the single best thing that could happen for "American" Baldwins (or American jobs producing Baldwins) is if the Baldwin name gets enough traction in China that Chinese consumers would be willing to pay a premium for American made Baldwins. I don't know the probability of that happening, of course, but I understand that the most recent Baldwins produced in China are nice pianos, so it's certainly feasible. If demand were sufficient enough in China to justify American production, then perhaps we'd see them sold here as well. In the meantime, and perhaps even if it happens, I understand that the Chinese made Baldwins are worth checking out.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743087
06/08/18 04:15 PM
06/08/18 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
Originally Posted by GC13
I see several restorers and rebuilders post the retail value of say a new instrument on their websites. Living Pianos does this and I think Chupps does this as well. The list they price of a "brand new" Steinway or Mason Hamlin of that model, and then te price of their rebuild. That's probably what they're basing the price on.

Right now, Living Pianos has a Steinway D (1967) listed at $73,599 but the $164,100 (new) price is marked out. A M&H CC2 for $43,775 with the $139,302 (new) price marked out. He has a Baldwin SD (1932) for $27,579 with $103,979 marked out.

Checking the official Baldwin sight, the SD10 is listed @ $103,500 and the SF10 @ $76,500. All of the classic Baldwin models are still listed on their website along side the new BP models. But do they still make them? Maybe Steve Cohen will chime in. He seems to be the PW contributor who chimes in with official new about the current Baldwins.


I thinks that's a fair practice, but to state that a brand new SF is $118k is dishonest. Well, some of the MSRPs are so over-inflated, too...

I agree that it's an honest practice, sort of (comparing a 1932 price to a brand new price isn't necessarily apples-to-oranges, but sort of oranges-to-tangerines).

But listing an MSRP on piano that for all intents and purposes hasn't been produced in ten years is a little disingenuous (IMO). Of course, they're listed on Baldwin's website (last I checked), so I'm not really sure who to point the finger at.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Retsacnal] #2743096
06/08/18 05:01 PM
06/08/18 05:01 PM
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Foster City, CA, US
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal

I agree that it's an honest practice, sort of (comparing a 1932 price to a brand new price isn't necessarily apples-to-oranges, but sort of oranges-to-tangerines).


Well, given how pianos evolved slowly between 1880 and 1980, I don't think it's unfair to compare a rebuilt one to a new one. I don't know anything about the pianos offered at Living Pianos, but it's not like comparing a rebuilt Ford Model T to today's Ford model. When determining the value of a Steinway, the condition matters more than the age.

On the other hand, with manufacturers which have made improvements more quickly, there is an argument that they end up depreciating more quickly, because new ones are so much better. I think that describes the market for top-quality Asian pianos and some prominent European brands.

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743116
06/08/18 07:40 PM
06/08/18 07:40 PM
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Price aside, I shudder significantly whenever I see what I see in the second picture!

Regards,


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Estonia 190
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: BruceD] #2743134
06/08/18 11:04 PM
06/08/18 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Price aside, I shudder significantly whenever I see what I see in the second picture!
Moi aussi. smile I just emailed the seller and provided a link to a reputable dealer's website where a 1998 Sf-10 in excellent condition is/was being offered for $14,900.. Should have mentioned the lid thing as well.


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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743182
06/09/18 08:25 AM
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It makes me sad to think they paid for an appraisal that shows that little understanding of piano pricing in the current market.


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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: terminaldegree] #2743200
06/09/18 10:21 AM
06/09/18 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
It makes me sad to think they paid for an appraisal that shows that little understanding of piano pricing in the current market.

Seems like this was a "complimentary appraisal." This from the appraiser's website....

"Your piano has value! Many are surprised to find what their pianos are worth. We provide a complimentary appraisal for your piano. This document can ensure that your piano is properly protected by insurance or can be a valuable tool when it comes time to sell or donate your piano."

The "seller" in this instance appears to be a real estate company and (per the photos) the piano is apparently sitting in an empty house.

Last edited by Carey; 06/09/18 10:28 AM.

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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743206
06/09/18 11:03 AM
06/09/18 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
Originally Posted by Retsacnal

I agree that it's an honest practice, sort of (comparing a 1932 price to a brand new price isn't necessarily apples-to-oranges, but sort of oranges-to-tangerines).


Well, given how pianos evolved slowly between 1880 and 1980, I don't think it's unfair to compare a rebuilt one to a new one. I don't know anything about the pianos offered at Living Pianos, but it's not like comparing a rebuilt Ford Model T to today's Ford model.

It depends on how the Model T was rebuilt. There is such a thing as a restomod, where the car is rebuilt with modern design and components so that it performs like a modern car, but still has the quaint exterior design of a Model T. That wouldn't be much different from a completely remanufactured artcase Steinway B from say 1910 in which everything except the case was replaced. A case could be made that such a rebuilt piano could perform as well as any Shigeru, VC Bodendorfer, Yamaha CF. The comparison would depend on the design priorities of the rebuilt piano, were they going for a modern scale design or just improving on the original? Just a thought!

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743215
06/09/18 11:39 AM
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The seller will eventually find out that the appraisal was worthless.

Pwg


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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743252
06/09/18 04:56 PM
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Quote
It makes me sad to think they paid for an appraisal that shows that little understanding of piano pricing in the current market.


Or interest. Once they get paid, these guys just seem to disappear. Unfortunately many tuners are among them. People that may be doing good work but have absolutely no understanding about current market conditions. Let alone "price" Perhaps want to make the owner "feel good"
Self-serving and not exactly very helpful... frown

Norbert


Last edited by Norbert; 06/09/18 05:04 PM.

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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743267
06/09/18 05:44 PM
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I'm curious why they mention this 32 year old piano is in excellent condition but give no reason why. Was it rebuilt? How was it maintained through the years, and how often was it played. Some people have a piano handed down to them and think because it was seldom played it is in excellent condition and when it is 32 years old that couldn't be further from the truth.

Their ad is very poorly written or deceiving having left this basic information out and asking such a steep price. The pictures are too dark and show very little of the inside. It looks like there aren't any special veneers on the inside. They don't mention if the keys are plastic or ivory so I assume they are plastic. Ivory was banned after 1989 but I'm not sure when Baldwin quit using it. And there is that very nasty scratch they didn't bother fixing? Why? They could have at least filled the white part of it in with black magic marker so it wasn't so noticeable.

A person came to look at a house I was selling and saw my piano and said "what a wonderful piece of furniture" to which I replied thank you but it isn't furniture at all because it is a musical instrument!

Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/09/18 05:54 PM.

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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2743286
06/09/18 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
]...\
A person came to look at a house I was selling and saw my piano and said "what a wonderful piece of furniture" to which I replied thank you but it isn't furniture at all because it is a musical instrument!

Steve


Reminds of the time a serviceman came into my living room, saw my 6'3" Estonia and asked: "Do you play the piano?"

Duh!

Cheers!


BruceD
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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743289
06/09/18 08:15 PM
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I believe both the seller and appraiser are clueless. They are waiting for some idiot with more money than brains to hand them $64k, or something close to it. Ain't gonna happen.

Or perhaps they are playing games with the insurance company, plan to burn the house down and use this as as evidence that they were trying to sell it at the "appraised" value...but oops...now it's destroyed. $64k please.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 06/09/18 08:16 PM.

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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743293
06/09/18 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
Originally Posted by Retsacnal

I agree that it's an honest practice, sort of (comparing a 1932 price to a brand new price isn't necessarily apples-to-oranges, but sort of oranges-to-tangerines).


Well, given how pianos evolved slowly between 1880 and 1980, I don't think it's unfair to compare a rebuilt one to a new one. I don't know anything about the pianos offered at Living Pianos, but it's not like comparing a rebuilt Ford Model T to today's Ford model. When determining the value of a Steinway, the condition matters more than the age.

Yeah, I think it's legit to compare to new. It's just that you can't really get an SF-10 new any more.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743294
06/09/18 08:43 PM
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The real estate connection on the appraisal is odd.

Perhaps the house is for sale, and they're trying to give the impression that a piano "left behind" or otherwise thrown in to the sale is worth much more than it really is.

It is a preposterously high appraisal.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743296
06/09/18 08:49 PM
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However, given that how few people actually know much about pianos and their value, the criticisms of this ad seem overdone to me.


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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743297
06/09/18 08:52 PM
06/09/18 08:52 PM
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If this piano is a top quality performer, in my mind the comparable replacement is a fully rebuilt Steinway B, M&H BB, or SF-10. These will be from about $45 to $65K. One can find mediocre ones for less, but if the owner expects to replace with one of similar performance, that is what they would expect to pay.

The piano does have significant enough damage to the case to need a specific markdown for that, around $3.5K. So in my book maximum replacement value would be $50K.


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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743300
06/09/18 09:06 PM
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I do not see anything that is necessarily case damage, but there is a reflection that looks like it might be.


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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743322
06/10/18 12:56 AM
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I see some dings, but not gouges or scratches either.

Perhaps for an appraisal it's not too high (they tend to be high). I was thinking more of the asking price on Craigslist, which I think is high by 300 or 400%.

In my neck of the woods, I tend to see SF-10s lists for about 15k, give or take.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: BDB] #2743329
06/10/18 01:59 AM
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look in image 5 of 6, there is a couple of obvious deep marks.


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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2743330
06/10/18 02:02 AM
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Yes, I guess so. I have someone who should be able to fix those.


Semipro Tech
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743335
06/10/18 02:31 AM
06/10/18 02:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
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Kuwait
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According to a poster above, this is a complimentary appraisal.

The appraisal says that they have "carefully examined" the piano in question. How can that be unless they are running at a huge loss? It would involve travelling to the site and spending time doing the appraisal.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743336
06/10/18 02:34 AM
06/10/18 02:34 AM
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Kuwait
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I think I have answered my own question. From their website it appears that they issue an appraisal as part of their servicing.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: PhilipInChina] #2743337
06/10/18 02:41 AM
06/10/18 02:41 AM
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Oakland
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It is an exceedingly complimentary appraisal!


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Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743368
06/10/18 08:20 AM
06/10/18 08:20 AM
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Georgia, USA
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An “appraisal” that tone-deaf for a self-described, “grade B”, 1986 Baldwin, reflects poorly on RPTs, since it’s signed by one and posted publicly. What training does the PTG offer in this regard?

I can’t think of any piano in original condition from 1986 that’s worth that amount.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2743628
06/11/18 12:32 PM
06/11/18 12:32 PM
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Western New York State, USA
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It's now listed at 15k.


Peter
1949 Baldwin M
currently working on Brahms op. 10 Ballades, f-minor sonata and 2nd concerto
Mendelssohn Songs Without Words and E minor Prelude and Fugue
whatever strikes my fancy today.
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: P3T3R] #2743756
06/11/18 10:21 PM
06/11/18 10:21 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,921
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
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Originally Posted by P3T3R
It's now listed at 15k.
Amazing !! Apparently they paid attention to the e-mail I sent them with a link to a reputable dealer's website for a 1998 Sf-10 being sold for $15K.

This could end up being a really good deal for someone !!!

Last edited by Carey; 06/11/18 10:24 PM.

Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2753730
07/25/18 05:53 AM
07/25/18 05:53 AM
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Posts: 32
California
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I ended up buying the piano. Trying to ween myself off of 9 footers. If I decide to keep it I'll upgrade to wng shanks and ronsen hammers. Here's a clip of it: https://youtu.be/IRK2MosSnrI

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2753737
07/25/18 07:50 AM
07/25/18 07:50 AM
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Posts: 1,470
Rehoboth Beach De. USA
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Congrats. Great sounding piano and enjoyed your playing as well.

Rich


Retired at the beach

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2753742
07/25/18 09:27 AM
07/25/18 09:27 AM
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That sounds lovely! It's a beautiful piano. Let us know how your upgrade to WNG and Ronsen goes. Do I understand that you're going to do that on your concert grand?

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: GC13] #2753814
07/25/18 03:49 PM
07/25/18 03:49 PM
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California
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The two 9's have WNG shanks. One has Ronsen hammers the other Renner Blue Point.

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: McKnight] #2753837
07/25/18 05:22 PM
07/25/18 05:22 PM
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Phoenix, Arizona
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Originally Posted by McKnight
I ended up buying the piano. Trying to ween myself off of 9 footers. If I decide to keep it I'll upgrade to wng shanks and ronsen hammers. Here's a clip of it: https://youtu.be/IRK2MosSnrI

What a beautiful looking and sounding instrument !! Hopefully you purchased it at the reduced price.

If you ultimately decide you want to sell it, please let me know. grin

Congrats !!


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Carey] #2753848
07/25/18 06:19 PM
07/25/18 06:19 PM
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USA
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jarobi Online content
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Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by McKnight
I ended up buying the piano. Trying to ween myself off of 9 footers. If I decide to keep it I'll upgrade to wng shanks and ronsen hammers. Here's a clip of it: https://youtu.be/IRK2MosSnrI

What a beautiful looking and sounding instrument !! Hopefully you purchased it at the reduced price.

If you ultimately decide you want to sell it, please let me know. grin

Congrats !!

Carey, This is totally OT, but I tried to send you a PM and it said you were over your private topic limit. PM me if you wish; I have a question about a piano I believe you played at Stilwell's. Thanks.

Congrats! On the Baldwin, McKnight. It sounds great.

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: jarobi] #2753858
07/25/18 07:39 PM
07/25/18 07:39 PM
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Posts: 8,921
Phoenix, Arizona
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Originally Posted by jarobi
Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by McKnight
I ended up buying the piano. Trying to ween myself off of 9 footers. If I decide to keep it I'll upgrade to wng shanks and ronsen hammers. Here's a clip of it: https://youtu.be/IRK2MosSnrI

What a beautiful looking and sounding instrument !! Hopefully you purchased it at the reduced price.

If you ultimately decide you want to sell it, please let me know. grin

Congrats !!

Carey, This is totally OT, but I tried to send you a PM and it said you were over your private topic limit. PM me if you wish; I have a question about a piano I believe you played at Stilwell's. Thanks.

Congrats! On the Baldwin, McKnight. It sounds great.


Jarobi - thanks for the heads up - I've sent you a Private Message. thumb

To the general populace here...…...when PW members reaches their Private Message limit, what can be done to rectify the situation? Can some of the old ones be deleted? Any guidance would be appreciated !! crazy


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Carey] #2753860
07/25/18 07:49 PM
07/25/18 07:49 PM
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Oakland
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Old ones can be deleted.


Semipro Tech
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: BDB] #2753863
07/25/18 08:07 PM
07/25/18 08:07 PM
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Phoenix, Arizona
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Originally Posted by BDB
Old ones can be deleted.

BDB - Thanks - I'll try that !!


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: McKnight] #2753864
07/25/18 08:09 PM
07/25/18 08:09 PM
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by McKnight
I ended up buying the piano. Trying to ween myself off of 9 footers. If I decide to keep it I'll upgrade to wng shanks and ronsen hammers. Here's a clip of it: https://youtu.be/IRK2MosSnrI


Very nice piano and really nice playing! Congratulations.

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2754370
07/28/18 02:52 PM
07/28/18 02:52 PM
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North of Los Angeles
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You impressed me with your playing.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Carey] #2754487
07/29/18 10:05 AM
07/29/18 10:05 AM
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Berkeley, California
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Nice piano, with good decay. Someone here in Berkeley, CA asked me to try her SF-10.. 1975 which I will do today. Woman is 90 and moving into Assisted Living. Can't take piano.Will make a you tube video of it. I was interested in a couple of previews of the model, though each must be judged independently. Looked up a few playings of Estrin, etc. Have not been on Piano World for quite some time.. sweet reunion.


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2754488
07/29/18 10:11 AM
07/29/18 10:11 AM
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Posts: 253
Upper Middle Tennessee
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The 7' Baldwin is a piano sound that I really like. I hope to own one or something very similar someday.

I'm of the opinion that the 7' size is just about ideal for quality of sound. 9' is fine for a big hall where you need the power. But I've just never been as impressed with the sound as with a 7 footer, whether Baldwin, Steinway, Mason & Hamlin, or several others.

Then again, opinions are like... well, I shouldn't say it... but everyone has one. Guess it would be a boring world if we all shared exactly the same opinions. wink

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Retsacnal] #2754492
07/29/18 10:24 AM
07/29/18 10:24 AM
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Berkeley, California
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I have the Chinese made Baldwin 165, (bought NEW) and while it is extremely well regulated, it has no OOMPH in the bass.. and in general needs more definition. (High upper register is fine..shimmering) but middle range suits Debussy for sweetness.. and Ravel.. but there are no chops in this piano. Might end up selling if I can get a decent rebuilt O Steinway. It would sit beside my Steinway M, 1917. The Baldwins going way back in time, were for me the real deal. I have not sampled the SF series yet, though I will today as a favor to a friend in a volunteer organization to which I belong. Will be a learning experience re: the SF10 series. This one dates to 1975-76.


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: shirlkirsten] #2754515
07/29/18 01:02 PM
07/29/18 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by shirlkirsten
The Baldwins going way back in time, were for me the real deal. I have not sampled the SF series yet, though I will today as a favor to a friend in a volunteer organization to which I belong. Will be a learning experience re: the SF10 series. This one dates to 1975-76.


I tuned an SF10 somewhere around '76 for a George Shearing concert - the poor man. The dealer, rather than pay for a concert tuner to travel, sent me (on his payroll). Amazing instrument. First time I'd seen tri-cord wound unisons. Man, those could knock a man down at 10 paces.

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2754521
07/29/18 01:38 PM
07/29/18 01:38 PM
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Berkeley, California
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Well, with that recommendation, I will try to have an open mind. Of course, each pianist sampling a piano will come away with a diverse opinion. I am now very curious about the one I will play and record this p.m.


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Bellyman] #2754537
07/29/18 03:17 PM
07/29/18 03:17 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,921
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
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Originally Posted by Bellyman
The 7' Baldwin is a piano sound that I really like. I hope to own one or something very similar someday.

I'm of the opinion that the 7' size is just about ideal for quality of sound. 9' is fine for a big hall where you need the power. But I've just never been as impressed with the sound as with a 7 footer, whether Baldwin, Steinway, Mason & Hamlin, or several others.

Then again, opinions are like... well, I shouldn't say it... but everyone has one. Guess it would be a boring world if we all shared exactly the same opinions. wink


About six years ago I coordinated the purchase of a private sale 7 foot Baldwin SF-10 (a 1995 model) for our church.. Beautiful tone, responsive Renner action. Certainly fills our 4,000 sf sanctuary without need for additional amplification. It does lack the powerful bass of my personal Mason and Hamlin BB - but the bass is powerful enough...more in line with a Steinway B. There is a newer Steinway B in the lobby of the Musical Instrument Musuem here in Phoenix (where I volunteer) which museum guests are allowed to play. Certainly impressive how the sound of that 7 footer travels throughout all the galleries of the building (over 50,000 sf).

American built Baldwin SF-10's and SD-10's can be wonderful pianos.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Carey] #2754561
07/29/18 06:26 PM
07/29/18 06:26 PM
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Upper Middle Tennessee
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Hey Carey,

I played that B in the MIM a few years ago. smile

My step-son and his wife live in Scottsdale and we spent a day at the MIM when we were there a couple of years ago. It was kinda fun, sorta had a little crowd around by the time I was through messin' around. (Everybody loves a little Charlie Brown Christmas, LOL!!) I don't remember a lot about that particular piano. Steinways do tend to be a little on the heavy side for touch, though, at least to me.

Don't know if my step-son's wife's dad till works at the MIM or not. "Mike." Anyway, we're planning to come out to see our son and his wife after the New Years holiday. Never know, might have to stop in and jam for a while.

There's a church close to me here in TN that has an older 7' Baldwin that I've gotten to play a few times. Sweet and rich sound, could play that one all day long. I don't know what year but it was back before the Accujust hitch pins.

I didn't think much about where the current Baldwin grands are being made or if they're being made anymore when I posted earlier (shame on me). I spent a little time at the factory in Conway, AR when they were building them there way back when, but I know the years have slipped by. I had heard something about Gibson Guitar taking over but then wasn't sure what happened to them, thought they might have sold Baldwin again. ??

There is definitely something about those old American grands that I like. Some of the Asian and other ones are fine pianos but they are a little different. A Yamaha will cut through and talk to me. An old Baldwin or Mason & Hamlin or Steinway (certain ones anyway) will envelop me. Can't explain it.

Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: McKnight] #2755538
08/02/18 11:20 PM
08/02/18 11:20 PM
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Detroit
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Fantastic playing, really enjoyed the phrasing and attack. And that is a beauty of an SF-10, congrats all around.

I get to play on an SD-6 (pre-cursor to the SD-10) and it is hands down easier to play than my SF-10. Why on earth would you give up on the 9 footers? You have the skill to bring out the best from a concert grand.


Baldwin SF-10 (1979)
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: McKnight] #2756135
08/05/18 03:46 PM
08/05/18 03:46 PM
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Berkeley, California
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Have you been getting my private messages. Thread had quota and forced delete.I didn't know I could select a few redundant ones to delete without erasing all. System is a bit confusing. Now I have almost a blank slate.


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: A 1986 Baldwin SF for $64,000!?!?!? [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2756137
08/05/18 03:57 PM
08/05/18 03:57 PM
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Berkeley, California
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For all who are interested, I did sample the SF 10 here in the East Bay. Turned out it was circa (1976-77) I made a video which revealed some serious issues..considerable action noise, tubby bass, false sounding sustained chords. Regulation was a big problem. Usually when I test a piano, I play pianissimo to start in chromatics from top to bottom. This piano could not play in this soft dynamic range .. notes just dropped out--not heard. One had to dig in to this piano at Forte range to scoop out the sound.. I could tell it was once a decent piano but 25 years in the Midwest killed it (sizzling humid summers, and raw winters)..I conjecture it needs major action work, restringing. I do not represent the piano in any sense.. Was asked to check on it, for a possible sale. I gain no commission or $$ for doing what I hoped was a good deed. I can tell this world of pianos and giving opinions is fraught with hurt feelings. Everyone thinks their piano is the greatest and is worth a ton of money. If this piano is properly rebuilt, I can only hope it can be resurrected. I have no idea if there are soundboard cracks as a tech would have to examine its structure, etc. thoroughly. This is what I recommend to piano owners who are selling.. and those who are buying. I just happened to give my perspective as more of a player--as a springboard to going further in detailing the piano.


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
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