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Doable Rachmaninoff #2742685
06/06/18 09:23 PM
06/06/18 09:23 PM
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Moo :) Offline OP
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I'm looking for a doable rachmaninoff. I've never played it before but it my teacher fav composer ! I found one clalled elegie but I'll have to check with my teacher if its doable, are there any other recommendations ?

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Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742695
06/06/18 10:26 PM
06/06/18 10:26 PM
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I would recommend his very early works written when he was around 17-19 years old. They are amazing and doable. I love Elegie but that may be a little harder, but as you said your teacher will know. I play over 30 of his works and he is my favorite after Chopin. I'm currently working on his Prelude, opus 32 G# Minor. There is a lot of Rachmaninoff on You Tube. Ashkenazy plays them beautifully. Here is a link to Prelude, opus 32 G# Minor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13U...;list=PLo9P-mqTaAcL0e7PrKT4_HBBMyyrQRL5Z

I hope your hands can handle his chords without having to roll them too much! Some are quite a stretch.

Please let us know what you decide and best wishes,

Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/06/18 10:35 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2742697
06/06/18 10:35 PM
06/06/18 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
I would recommend his very early works written when he was around 17-19 years old. They are amazing and doable. I love Elegie but that may be a little harder, but as you said your teacher will know. I play over 30 of his works and he is my favorite after Chopin.

I hope your hands can handle his chords without having to roll them too much! Some are quite a stretch.

Please let us know what you decide and best wishes,

Steve
.

His early works are in op 3
Elegie is op 3 no 1. I personally found it more daunting to play then opus three number two , C sharp minor prelude

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCm9O2KNEX4

I haven’t played op 3 no 3


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742699
06/06/18 10:49 PM
06/06/18 10:49 PM
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Hi Dog Person,

I won't be able to get to my score until tomorrow but I think we are talking about something different. My score definitely does not have Elegie in it but could have the others you mention. I will write back again tomorrow...

Steve


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Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2742700
06/06/18 10:53 PM
06/06/18 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Hi Dog Person,

I won't be able to get to my score until tomorrow but I think we are talking about something different. My score definitely does not have Elegie in it but could have the others you mention. I will write back again tomorrow...

Steve



Elegie op 3 no 1, played by Rach
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ElYS7lyJ3O4.

Imslp.org
http://imslp.org/wiki/Morceaux_de_Fantaisie%2C_Op.3_%28Rachmaninoff%2C_Sergei%29

Last edited by dogperson; 06/06/18 10:56 PM.
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742702
06/06/18 11:00 PM
06/06/18 11:00 PM
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Rachmaninoff’s Vocalise (piano transcription) might be doable since it is a relatively slow song with a strong melancholic line over chordal accompaniment (divided between both hands).

https://youtu.be/0_OrA80NGBM

Sheet music:

http://chopinandmysaucepan.com/wp-c...alise-Op.-34-No.-14-by-Zoltan-Kocsis.pdf


The moment one feels that the finger must sing, it becomes strong.
-Horowitz
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742704
06/06/18 11:21 PM
06/06/18 11:21 PM
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For some reason I cannot edit my post above. I wanted to add another piece that is relatively easy and sounds much harder than it actually is:

Polichinelle op 3 no 4

https://youtu.be/r8DkC8dPdoE


The moment one feels that the finger must sing, it becomes strong.
-Horowitz
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742743
06/07/18 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Moo smile
I found one clalled elegie but I'll have to check with my teacher if its doable, are there any other recommendations ?

This is probably the easiest Rachmaninov piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ei9wBgjWzo

There are a few lovely well-known Preludes that are easier than almost any of Op.3. They are the ones my teacher started me on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qoPDQzXVmk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q-7WeFsooM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRVroSqgRV4

And a favorite of Horowitz and many other greats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13UlKWgwdZI


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742746
06/07/18 06:10 AM
06/07/18 06:10 AM
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For me op25 No1 is technically the most approachable of the preludes. That could just be peculiar to me but worth checking out to see how it suits you.
I have a long term op32 no12 project ongoing at the moment which is stuck on some technical hurdles, but I think doable eventually.

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: deerfield] #2742776
06/07/18 10:01 AM
06/07/18 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by deerfield
Rachmaninoff’s Vocalise (piano transcription) might be doable since it is a relatively slow song with a strong melancholic line over chordal accompaniment (divided between both hands).

https://youtu.be/0_OrA80NGBM

Sheet music:

http://chopinandmysaucepan.com/wp-c...alise-Op.-34-No.-14-by-Zoltan-Kocsis.pdf
I think a transcription of Vocalise would be a good first Rachmaninov piece but not in the Kocsis transcription which is the hardest of the standard transcriptions and I think considerably harder than most of the OP's rep. I would recommend the transcription by Fiorentino: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn2QNwnmC_I
Unfortunately, the score may be hard to locate online and I don't remember where I got my copy. If the Fiorentino transcription can't be found then I suggest the one by Richardson which is the most commonly played one and easier than the one by Kocsis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5IiC1kAdzM

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/07/18 10:09 AM.
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742780
06/07/18 10:12 AM
06/07/18 10:12 AM
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Have to look into these......


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy - La fille aux cheveux de lin
Bach - Adagio 974
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742784
06/07/18 10:40 AM
06/07/18 10:40 AM
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Pieces that are doable for one person may not be doable for another, so these types of questions are hard to answer.... except to comment on the relative difficulty of the pieces. I think that Vocalise and Elegie are relatively easier than the preludes mentioned above. This is based on having played Elegie and 3/2, 23/4, 32/12, and Variation 18 from Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini - not very extensive experience. I find Rach pieces to be quite challenging.



Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742808
06/07/18 12:10 PM
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It's lesser known but Op. 10, Rach's 7 Morceaux de Salon has some of his easier pieces. I would say No. 1 the Nocturne is easier than any of his preludes and the Elegie as well. Check out all 7 pieces though - others in that set could be good starters too.

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742838
06/07/18 01:54 PM
06/07/18 01:54 PM
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Further to my post yesterday, here is a link to the Rachmaninoff Early Works book I have. It is really amazing how young he was when writing these works.

https://www.partitura.be/en/artikel...rgei-Rachmaninoff-/-David-Butler-Cannata

Steve


Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/07/18 01:57 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742859
06/07/18 03:58 PM
06/07/18 03:58 PM
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Thank you, I'm spoilt for choices now smile. I think some of them are too hard and not doable for me but I have some options in the choices suggested. polichinelle did make me smile, my nana calls my brother 'le policinhelle'. i thought it was a common word but a french relative was laughing when it was said as apparently it is a very old fashion word !

Last edited by Moo :); 06/07/18 04:03 PM.
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: pianoloverus] #2742914
06/07/18 10:42 PM
06/07/18 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think a transcription of Vocalise would be a good first Rachmaninov piece but not in the Kocsis transcription which is the hardest of the standard transcriptions and I think considerably harder than most of the OP's rep. I would recommend the transcription by Fiorentino: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn2QNwnmC_I
Unfortunately, the score may be hard to locate online and I don't remember where I got my copy. If the Fiorentino transcription can't be found then I suggest the one by Richardson which is the most commonly played one and easier than the one by Kocsis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5IiC1kAdzM


Thanks for pointing out the Fiorentino transcription, I was unaware of this considerably easier version which sounds quite beautiful in its simplicity. The sheet music is indeed hard to find; however, if you google it, the first page is available for those who want to try it out. Upon further googling I found 2 other Fiorentino transcription of Rachmaninoff songs (“Daisies” and “Lilacs”) which also sound fantastic. The sheet music seem very difficult to find however.

https://youtu.be/bwgjVkCsDXo


The moment one feels that the finger must sing, it becomes strong.
-Horowitz
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2742986
06/08/18 08:58 AM
06/08/18 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
Thank you, I'm spoilt for choices now smile. I think some of them are too hard and not doable for me but I have some options in the choices suggested. polichinelle did make me smile, my nana calls my brother 'le policinhelle'. i thought it was a common word but a french relative was laughing when it was said as apparently it is a very old fashion word !


I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit! I watched your youtube videos and think you are a wonderful pianist. You are young and have many years of enjoyment ahead of you. I also have a feeling you have an excellent instructor.

Best wishes / Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/08/18 08:59 AM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: deerfield] #2742994
06/08/18 09:23 AM
06/08/18 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by deerfield
Thanks for pointing out the Fiorentino transcription, I was unaware of this considerably easier version which sounds quite beautiful in its simplicity. The sheet music is indeed hard to find; however, if you google it, the first page is available for those who want to try it out. The sheet music seem very difficult to find however.https://youtu.b/bwgjVkCsDXo
You could take screen shots of the music for Vocalise shown on the video you included. It's interesting that although Fiorentino was a super virtuoso many of his transcriptions are very straightforward and relatively simple compared to other pianists' transcriptions of the same works.

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743002
06/08/18 09:46 AM
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May I add "Fragments" and from his musical moments Op.16 3 and Op 16 5?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81fnylYxwI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elxdTwvN9W4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZRQ2ld4hY4

Thanks

p.s. I only wished there was some Rachmainov for smaller hands like mine ........

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: bennevis] #2743086
06/08/18 04:10 PM
06/08/18 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Moo smile
I found one clalled elegie but I'll have to check with my teacher if its doable, are there any other recommendations ?

This is probably the easiest Rachmaninov piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ei9wBgjWzo

I won't comment on how "easy" this is, but it's worth pointing out that if you start at 4:00 what follows is a direct steal from this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmdkTsjFI-s

Start at 16:41

Of course, there is nothing dishonorable about stealing from yourself!


Piano Teacher
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743091
06/08/18 04:27 PM
06/08/18 04:27 PM
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Moo, another thought for you since people are talking about transcriptions. Have any of your instructors mentioned anything to you about original scores as written by the composer? They are usually in what is called Urtext versions where scholars have researched original archives, original publishings, and other sources to help ensure the composers original music is published?

The simplified versions or transcriptions are not what the composer wrote if that is important to you. I wish my instructors taught me about this during my many years of studying. All they said was something was "original" but I didn't really understand that much until I discovered how incredible the Urtext editions published by G. Henle Verlag, Wiener Urtext, and others are. Many people posting on this site don't believe Urtext editions are special, but I certainly do.

Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/08/18 04:29 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2743101
06/08/18 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Moo, another thought for you since people are talking about transcriptions. Have any of your instructors mentioned anything to you about original scores as written by the composer? They are usually in what is called Urtext versions where scholars have researched original archives, original publishings, and other sources to help ensure the composers original music is published?

The simplified versions or transcriptions are not what the composer wrote if that is important to you. I wish my instructors taught me about this during my many years of studying.

I hope you're not conflating "simplified arrangements" with non-Urtext or with transcriptions.

The three are entirely different. I'd never play any simplified arrangements by anybody of existing piano/lkeyboard music - in fact, I don't think I have since Grade 1, but I'd happily play from non-Urtext scores. And unlike Sviatoslav Richter, I also play transcriptions by great composers like Liszt and Busoni - and Rachmaninov himself -, and have no qualms about playing my own transcriptions either. If I possess a score which is Urtext, it's by accident, not by design.

Even my score of Gaspard de la nuit (Durand © 1909) doesn't say Urtext in any language, but I presume it is, though the low notes in Scarbo that should have been below bottom A have been altered to allow the use of an 88-key piano. Did the composer (who had a ninety-key Érard grand that went down to bottom G) sanction that?

Of course, if I have a Böse Imperial, I'd play the notes he intended.......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743103
06/08/18 05:56 PM
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This is Rachmaninoff playing Rachmaninov's transcription for piano of the song Lilacs by Sergei Rachmaninov wink :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72xh91KTOOA


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: bennevis] #2743156
06/09/18 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
This is Rachmaninoff playing Rachmaninov's transcription for piano of the song Lilacs by Sergei Rachmaninov wink :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72xh91KTOOA


Thanks for this lovely gem. I googled the sheet music, and it turns out there is a volume of Rachmaninoff transcriptions of his own works and those other composers, published by Alfred, which includes “Daisies” and “Lilacs” as well as famous pieces of other composers which seems very interesting. Probably not suitable for beginners or intermediate players, but adding a Rachmaninoff scented flourish to the transcription is definitely worth investigating.

https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/transcriptions-sheet-music/1551675?utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o1&gclid=CjwKCAjw0ujYBRBDEiwAn7BKt-Um2GTmtjgkFvdv11DJY3c6SIdibtE2S8ntvR7o3W-z_eyZ-HyQWRoCVgwQAvD_BwE&d=sem_sidecar&d=sem_sidecar&d=sem_ggl_%7Bcampaign_id%7D_&popup=false&popup=false&utm_source=google&ac=1&country_code=USA&sc_intid=1551675&scid=scplp1551675


The moment one feels that the finger must sing, it becomes strong.
-Horowitz
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: deerfield] #2743195
06/09/18 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by deerfield
it turns out there is a volume of Rachmaninoff transcriptions of his own works and those other composers, published by Alfred, which includes “Daisies” and “Lilacs” as well as famous pieces of other composers which seems very interesting.

For the curious, this is Rach's take on Bach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbTqEYrolQk

...........and this is the original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VOkrddp6M8

Bach/Rach is played occasionally, but is not as popular as his take on Kreisler (Liebesleid and Liebesfreud). His spicing of Bach's (implied) harmonies is somewhat more of an acquired taste than his Kreisler arrangements - after all, Fritz was a near-contemporary, and they performed & recorded together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osgKvDsPJ-o


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743214
06/09/18 11:36 AM
06/09/18 11:36 AM
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Thank you for the clips, it has turned into a interesting and educational thread. I have a lot of research to do before I pick my next piece.

I only know one transcription so I thought I would share smile

Rachmaninoff transcribed this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHTV3GFyHfM

Into piano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ch0k9_eiA&fmt=18

x

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: bennevis] #2743537
06/10/18 09:52 PM
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Benevis I'm obviously not the expert like you but I stand by what I posted. Thanks for adding. I don't believe I said anything about not liking transcriptions. Earl Wild's transcriptions of Rachmaninoff are great. I was talking about Urtext in case the op wasn't aware of them. Is that alright with you?

Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 06/10/18 09:58 PM.

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Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743587
06/11/18 07:41 AM
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Estonia
Definitely do "Fragments", I am learning that right now and it seems, by far, the most approachable Rachmaninoff piece. He is my favorite composer as well and everything he composed, as you know, is relatively hard. With the exception of Fragments (It has its challenges, but it is a short 1 or 2 page piece depending on arrangement).


"My dear hands. Farewell, my poor hands."
-Sergei Rachmaninoff

Estonia 190
Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743625
06/11/18 12:22 PM
06/11/18 12:22 PM
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Posts: 23,546
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pianoloverus Offline
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Some good suggestions so far and some that I think are not even close to the easiest Rach pieces. Besides the Fiorentino Vocalise transcription I previously mentioned which one can obtain with screenshots of the video, I would go with the Preludes in D major, B major, and G flat major. The last two have not been mentioned yet I think. IMO the Preludes in F# major, B minor, and C# Minor and Fragments are reasonable choices also.

Re: Doable Rachmaninoff [Re: Moo :)] #2743640
06/11/18 01:28 PM
06/11/18 01:28 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 23,546
New York City
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Also suggesting the Prelude in E flat Major.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/11/18 01:28 PM.
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