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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742607
06/06/18 03:50 PM
06/06/18 03:50 PM
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So in the future, once a Steinway is rebuilt it will no longer be a Steinway - unless it is restored by Steinway themselves.


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742611
06/06/18 03:59 PM
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What will all of the above mean for Steinway rebuilders? Will they rebuild Steinways but no longer be able to put decals on the fallboard and soundboard?

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/06/18 04:00 PM.
Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: Carey] #2742613
06/06/18 04:00 PM
06/06/18 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey
So in the future, once a Steinway is rebuilt it will no longer be a Steinway - unless it is restored by Steinway themselves.



It will still be a Steinway but have no decal on the fallboard and if it had one on the soundboard that will not be present either.

Most likely we will still see Steinways with fallboard decals but not period correct ones. Perhaps just the current design as I doubt anyone will go through the trouble of making all the ones that have been available for the last 25+ years.


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742614
06/06/18 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus

What will all of the above mean for Steinway rebuilders? Will they rebuild Steinways but no longer be able to put decals on the fallboard and soundboard?


Most likely.


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: Rod Verhnjak] #2742646
06/06/18 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod Verhnjak
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

What will all of the above mean for Steinway rebuilders? Will they rebuild Steinways but no longer be able to put decals on the fallboard and soundboard?


Most likely.
I'm confused because your previous post said we would likely still see Steinways with decals(but probably not the historically correct ones).

Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742649
06/06/18 05:56 PM
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So...is the prohibition on the word "Steinway", "STEINWAY", or is the prohibition on a carefully reproduced COPY of a Steinway decal?

Point being...could the word Steinway, in a font and style that "Steinway" never used in history, be put on a Steinway fallboard?

Or should the word "Steinway" now be changed to "A Piano Made in New York", AND be stricken from our vocabulary and writings, lest it be uttered in violation of Steinway' s trademark?

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 06/06/18 06:02 PM.

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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742651
06/06/18 06:02 PM
06/06/18 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Rod Verhnjak
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

What will all of the above mean for Steinway rebuilders? Will they rebuild Steinways but no longer be able to put decals on the fallboard and soundboard?


Most likely.
I'm confused because your previous post said we would likely still see Steinways with decals(but probably not the historically correct ones).



I'm sure some will find other sources for decals and these sources will not be able to offer all the designs. They may be more like stickers or dry slides.
That's my thought on what may happen. Even I have brass ones in stock and old varnish transfer ones as well. But the varnish transfer ones are not a nice as what we have been getting from Decals Unlimited for 20 years and in only one style.

The question is will Steinway start going after pianos restorers after September 27th if they apply a decal on a Steinway. And if they do is it against a law now to do so.
Steinways have enough info on the plate to say it's a Steinway why would a sticker on the front be an infringement?

I guess we will see.


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: P W Grey] #2742652
06/06/18 06:09 PM
06/06/18 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
So...is the prohibition on the word "Steinway", "STEINWAY", or is the prohibition on a carefully reproduced COPY of a Steinway decal?

Point being...could the word Steinway, in a font and style that "Steinway" never used in history, be put on a Steinway fallboard?

Or should the word "Steinway" now be changed to "A Piano Made in New York", AND be stricken from our vocabulary and writings, lest it be uttered in violation of Steinway' s trademark?

Pwg


I'm not sure. Decal Unlimited offers around 40 different fallboard decals and 10 soundboard decals from different eras. Steinway currently uses one style of brass lettering and their current production and on a few special models Decals Unlimited produces a decal for Steinway to use. Like for the John Lennon model.


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742657
06/06/18 06:25 PM
06/06/18 06:25 PM
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So if you want to get your Steinway refinished, you have to send it to Steinway in order to get the correct decals? This seems very similar to the VW smart key Class Action Lawsuit.

Hopefully Bob Snyder will weigh in on this.

Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742669
06/06/18 07:19 PM
06/06/18 07:19 PM
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I wonder if Steinway sells replacement fallboards?

On a serious note, I had a feeling that this was a serious effort to put the kibosh on Steinway rebuilding. Of course, Steinway has every right to protect their trademarks.

There are always loopholes, though. For example, I can't imagine that it would violate a trademark to accurately label something. I could see something like this:


STEINWAY & SONS
Model B, Manufactured in Astoria, New York, 1955
Restored by ClavioCraft, Washington, DC 2018



Or perhaps a "museum quality" engraved metal plaque on the fallboard with the same info.

Surely it can't be illegal to restore something.

Perhaps the logos can be restored by hand, with appropriate colored paints. If you had a logo and name before the restoration, then you ought to be able to preserve or restore it. Right?

Of course, I'm not a lawyer.

I've seen hackneyed refinish jobs, where people didn't know they could get a new decal, and have left a rectangular shape around the original decal unstripped. Perhaps a logo could be more painstakingly salvaged in this way, but up close, right up to the edge of the lettering. I'm not sure how spraying poly over old varnish or lacquer might work, but ...

Another option, of course, is to just rebuild pianos without refinishing them. Personally, I like an aged finish on a piano.


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742687
06/06/18 08:32 PM
06/06/18 08:32 PM
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It's all very tedious. As a company, Steinway strikes me as simultaneously arrogant and insecure.

Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: ando] #2742696
06/06/18 09:34 PM
06/06/18 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
It's all very tedious. As a company, Steinway strikes me as simultaneously arrogant and insecure.
Actually, arrogance and insecurity usually go hand in hand. grin


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742698
06/06/18 09:42 PM
06/06/18 09:42 PM
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I remember when Decals Unlimited started and I was with Fred Drasche, (longtime head tone-regulator at NY S&S) when we walked up to their display at the PTG Convention. Fred thought it wonderful that we now had these dry transfer decals, so much easier to use than the varnish transfer ones.

With the low cost high quality printers now available, technicians could acquire the appropriate artwork in a digital file and have it printed themselves as needed. Steinway could not stop that as long as you didn't pass off a piano or your work as being officially Steinway.


Last edited by Ed McMorrow, RPT; 06/06/18 09:43 PM. Reason: typo

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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742767
06/07/18 07:49 AM
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I'm thinking about purchasing the decals while they're still available for mine for future use, just in case.

Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2742769
06/07/18 08:12 AM
06/07/18 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT


With the low cost high quality printers now available, technicians could acquire the appropriate artwork in a digital file and have it printed themselves as needed. Steinway could not stop that as long as you didn't pass off a piano or your work as being officially Steinway.



I think this is the key answer to the problem.

Steinway?? Being arrogant???

What's new?


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742788
06/07/18 09:52 AM
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The problem is when lawyers start analyzing the situation and then start issuing warnings. I'm sure that the official position will circle around the idea of preventing Steinway decals from being put on non-steinway pianos and being passed off as Steinway. In the eyes of a lawyer, the ONLY way to prevent that is to restrict ALL access to the decal (commercially). I suspect that they don't really have an issue with honest rebuilders...only the dishonest sales of fraudulently labeled units...but they cannot see any other way to deal with it.

Pwg


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: P W Grey] #2742793
06/07/18 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
The problem is when lawyers start analyzing the situation and then start issuing warnings. I'm sure that the official position will circle around the idea of preventing Steinway decals from being put on non-steinway pianos and being passed off as Steinway. In the eyes of a lawyer, the ONLY way to prevent that is to restrict ALL access to the decal (commercially). I suspect that they don't really have an issue with honest rebuilders...only the dishonest sales of fraudulently labeled units...but they cannot see any other way to deal with it.

Pwg


However this action does not solve the problem. Such an unscrupulous person would simply copy an image off the internet, buy a blank decal and make their own.

Just like the honest rebuilders will on their rebuilt Steinways!


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742798
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Correct.

Pwg


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Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742803
06/07/18 10:54 AM
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I think this position will only hurt Steinway's image among those who would love to someday own a Steinway but can only afford a used or rebuilt one, like myself! A quality rebuild, like many of the rebuilders here on PW do, with the official logo on it can only add value to the Steinway reputation and brand value. In fact, when I walked into a rebuilder's shop and played about 15 nice Steinway pianos of all sizes I was quite impressed. It was nice to see that they all had the official, period-correct, S&S emblem on the fallboard. I could tell that they were all Steinway pianos b/c they each had a Steinway plate along with other indicators. It doesn't take too much education to become aware of what is a potential fake and what is real in a Steinway.

On the other hand, when I walk into the local S&S Gallery and the only well-prepared pianos are the C&A instruments ... that is what hurts Steinway's reputation.

Just my .02, as Rickster would say.

Re: Problem getting Steinway fallboard and soundboard decals? [Re: pianoloverus] #2742806
06/07/18 11:03 AM
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My 1922 Steinway Model O's original logo-ing was decidedly unimpressive. The fallboard had a 4" long logo, which consisted of an image of a small lyre and underneath that the words "Steinway & Sons" in a small font. There was no decal on the soundboard.

After restoration by Steinway Restoration Center in NYC, the fallboard has a glorious Steinway decal. But the soundboard? Nothing.

John


1922 Steinway Model O, restored by Steinway Restoration Center, 2016. PianoDisc, installed 2017.
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