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Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic #2741804
06/03/18 04:24 PM
06/03/18 04:24 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Jouishy Offline OP
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Jouishy  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Hi!

So I'm searching for my first acoustic. At first, I wanted a Grand, but I must be realistic : I don't have the budget for that!

Since I've started the piano, I've always played on grand piano (I know this is peculiar) since I had access to the conservatory (thanks to having a student-teacher there). But this will change next year and I really hate playing on my digital...

I have a budget of 2000$ or so. So I'm watching used pianos.

I've just tested today a Horugel / Samick. The sound was okay (if you forget the fact that it was out of tune : it haven't been tuned for more than a year).
I have mainly one concern : the high pitch notes were playing a little bit too softly, and I was wondering if it was something that could be adjusted.

I couldn't find the serial number on the piano atlas app I have on my phone, so I don't know in which year it was manufactured.

Do you have so advices / opinion on that piano?

I can share with you the ad : https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1358886704
And the photos, videos and audio I've taken : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JYf77EETvhUcOkIZ6F8b8MBZuHWGjceR

There are two notes in the far high notes that don't play. I supposed that could be repaired.
The piano is fairly cheap, but I don't know if it is well priced for the quality.

The seller bought it from a professional seller 10 years ago. The piano was used back then. It is still played now and then, but not consistently. They are moving, that's why they are selling it.

As for me, I still want to buy a grand in the future. I need some years to save the money for it. So the piano I'm seeking for will be a 5-year (or so) companion.

Thanks in advance for the advices and useful comments you can provide.


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I plan to learn this summer :
- Mozart K545, 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
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Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741807
06/03/18 04:40 PM
06/03/18 04:40 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,499
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Georgia, USA
The Horugel had one of the worst reputations (for its time) in the piano industry. Having said that, based on the recording it sounds mostly like it needs a pitch raise and tuning, however you indicate other problems and the pictures show not all is as it should be in the action.

If you’re serious, have a tech check it. Buy it for as little as you can, expecting to get back very little at resale.

Also consider other pianos, renting, or a good new digital (at the $2,000 price class, they’re better than you’d think)!


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741813
06/03/18 05:06 PM
06/03/18 05:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 129
Seattle
Campanella12 Offline
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Seattle
Hi Jouishy,

first, let me say that I watched your videos and want to enthusiastically commend you on your piano skills that you acquired in such a short time. Congratulations!

Does the school where you practice have a piano technician? You might want to talk to him and inquire of any customers of his who might want to get rid of their pianos. It used to be that (in the Seattle market) piano owners would call weekly piano stores to have their pianos either sold or at least just picked up due to changing circumstances. This does not happen that frequently anymore but it could be worth a try. By the way, I think it would be worth for you to consider a grand - if one becomes available at the price you are looking at. You certainly have the skills for one.


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Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Campanella12] #2741814
06/03/18 05:09 PM
06/03/18 05:09 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,130
Florida
dogperson Offline
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Florida
Originally Posted by Campanella12
Hi Jouishy,

first, let me say that I watched your videos and want to enthusiastically commend you on your piano skills that you acquired in such a short time. Congratulations!

Does the school where you practice have a piano technician? You might want to talk to him and inquire of any customers of his who might want to get rid of their pianos. It used to be that (in the Seattle market) piano owners would call weekly piano stores to have their pianos either sold or at least just picked up due to changing circumstances. This does not happen that frequently anymore but it could be wforth a try. By the way, I think it would be worth for you to consider a grand - if one becomes available at the price you are looking at. You certainly have the skills for one.




A grand at 2,000 CAD?


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
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Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741816
06/03/18 05:22 PM
06/03/18 05:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,534
Canberra, ACT, Australia
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Chris Leslie Offline
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Canberra, ACT, Australia
I regularly service a Horugel upright. I find it to be not as bad as the reputation suggests. It functions fine and plays quite well but the tone is a little dull in the treble. An ok choice if you are really budget limited.


Chris Leslie ARPT
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741853
06/03/18 07:36 PM
06/03/18 07:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 580
Arkansas
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supersport Offline
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Arkansas
Hi,

Is there a Samick in the mix somewhere? Horugel wasn't a Samick was it?


David



Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741857
06/03/18 08:12 PM
06/03/18 08:12 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Jouishy Offline OP
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Jouishy  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Terminaldegree : Digital is really out of question for me. I've tried Roland's up to 4000$ price (new) and Yamaha's clavinova 585 and 685. I don't like the sound at all. And putting that much money in a piano I don't like the sound... I absolutely want an acoustic.

Supersport : in fact, I'm confused. Because the seller told me that piano was sold to them as a Samick, but I see Horugel written on it. Since both are made in Korea, I thought maybe one company was a subdivision of the other.


As for my question : is it possible to adjust something so the notes that sounds too low could sound a little bit louder? This is really the main thing that bothers me.


And Campanella12 : thanks for your appreciation. Piano is a real passion. After all, it makes me buy a house so I can have an acoustic, so I must love it. laugh


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I plan to learn this summer :
- Mozart K545, 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741862
06/03/18 08:37 PM
06/03/18 08:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,874
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Originally Posted by Jouishy
As for my question : is it possible to adjust something so the notes that sounds too low could sound a little bit louder? This is really the main thing that bothers me.

I'm no expert, but I do think Samick built the Horugel; fact is, they (Samick) has built many stencil brand pianos over the years. And, I've read about the 'horrible Horugel". But you can't always believe everything you read on the internet, and even on Piano World. I've not played a Horugel, but I've talked to others that owned a Horugel grand, and, according to them, they were not quite as horrible as some say. But I guess there is nothing wrong with being cautious.

To answer your question about making improvements to the Horugel, it would be better to have a qualified piano technician to answer your question. But I'm thinking there can be adjustments made to make the piano sound better, and more to your liking. You might also use that as a negotiation strategy to try and get a better price. If you like the piano, no matter how much of a "horrible Horugel", try to get it for the lowest price you can. Then, if it needs work, you will have some room to make improvements.

Also, if you really like the piano, and can get for a price that is acceptable to you, and it turns out that you don't like it, you can always sell it. But selling a used piano is not at all easy, although they are very easy to buy.

By-the-way, I did listen to some of your YT videos, and I think you play nicely. Of course, I don't know much about classical music. I'm an oldies rock-n-roll, boogie-woogie, and blues guy. smile

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741872
06/03/18 09:26 PM
06/03/18 09:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 45
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redfish1901 Offline
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I have an observation I would like to share, Jouishy:

During my piano shopping, I visited many, *many* piano shops. Often there is one beat-up old upright, with a non-Japanese Asian brand (Like Youngchang), that someone traded in. The dealer would really like to get rid of it, but but they stay unsold for years because nobody is interested in them. I expect there is very large negotiating room there, since selling that piano means more space for a nicer, more expensive piano. And since it was a trade in, the dealer probably didn't pay much for it.

Another thing I noticed is that the "nicer" piano stores, like new Steinway dealers, sometimes have these trade ins they accepted and can't get rid of. Nobody goes to the Steinway dealer to buy a 2,000 Youngchang. But you could. I had a friend who bought a used economy car from a Porsche dealership. The salesperson tried to play the normal game, but soon they were begging her to take this cheap car. They really didn't mind "losing money" on it, since otherwise it will take up space and cost them money.

If I was in your situation, I would use this strategy.

Best of luck on your piano search.

PS. I'm not saying Youngchangs are bad. They are just a brand to beat up on because of their poor past reputation.

Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741881
06/03/18 10:08 PM
06/03/18 10:08 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Jouishy Offline OP
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Jouishy  Offline OP
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Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
There are not much piano store in Quebec city. In fact, I know only one shop with new acoustic pianos. There are some piano technicians that has some used pianos in their workshop, and this is something I intend to check.

I have one major issue with shoping for my piano : I don't have a car. It is really complicated sometimes to go to some places... there is a piano I wanted to go try, but I have 1h15 bus to do to get there... I'm not sure I'll go... Often, places with pianos are located remotely, since floor space is more expansive downtown. This is really something that is getting in my way!
One other things is that piano technicians and shops will sell piano with taxes, and that can make a huge difference! This is why I find it interesting to look at ads on the internet.


Thanks for the tip though. This is definitely something I want to check out. And I'll keep that in mind.


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I plan to learn this summer :
- Mozart K545, 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741896
06/03/18 11:30 PM
06/03/18 11:30 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,257
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Victoria, BC
If you don't have a car but do drive (do you have a drivers licence?), you could make appointments to visit several pianos in one day and rent a car for the day to visit as many of them as you can fit in. It might be worth the rental expense.

Failing that, do you have a friend willing to take the time to drive you around to check out a number of pianos? I'm sure you could find a way to compensate your friend for the service.

Once you find a piano that you like that is within your budget, you should have it checked out by a technician before you buy to assure that there are no current or potential problems with the instrument.

Best of luck.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2741913
06/04/18 12:54 AM
06/04/18 12:54 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Jouishy Offline OP
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Jouishy  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Yes, I have my driver licence. This is something I though of. It felt difficult to time the appointments : if the piano is clearly not interesting, I'll stay there for 10 minutes. If it sounds ok, I might stay there for an hour, to take the time to play and check it. I still haven' figured how I would manage that. But yes, definitely something I could do. I need to gather information to know how much it would cost.
The other thing is that I drove twice in 6 years and I'm really not confortable driving anymore.

This is one of the only time I miss having a car... (I had one, between 2008 and 2012).


I'll probably take an appointment with technician that has some used piano in his workshop in the neighboring city (they are only open upon appointment). My mother is willing to take me there. smile (thanks mom!)
I'm more shy to ask for that to test a single piano, but having the opportunity to go somewhere where I can test like 15 pianos seems like it worth the trip!


Yes, having it check by a pro is something I thought about, but before paying a pro, if I had an answer telling me it was completely impossible to fix what annoys me, I would save some money. Or that this is really some crap of a piano and I should never waste time on it.
That's why I'm taking advices in here. smile

Thanks! Those are certainly sound advices and things I will most certainly do when I'll be farther in my decision process!


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I plan to learn this summer :
- Mozart K545, 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742147
06/04/18 07:01 PM
06/04/18 07:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 966
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huaidongxi Offline
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Jouishy, the quest in finding a nice instrument on a limited budget can be arduous, but it's worth the invested effort when you find a five year companion you'll be spending thousands of hours with. from your videos you already show very good touch and command of rhythm, and a good instrument will take you far. don't be shy about asking to try out pianos that might be out of your budget, because it's a means for you to learn what your preferences are, positive or negative. if you find a piano that enchants you, that's a rather special case, but more mundanely, trying out as many pianos as practical makes you a more informed consumer and player, and help your confidence in making a decision.

Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742188
06/04/18 11:46 PM
06/04/18 11:46 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Jouishy Offline OP
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Jouishy  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Thanks all for your answers.

It fact, it's been more than a year that I'm searching for my piano, but I paused my research in the winter, since I must take the piano upstair from the outside (outside stairs are strait as indoor stairs have a 90° angle).

Tonight, I went with my mother in a technician workshop. It was farther outside the city than I thought (45 minutes), but it was well worth it! There was about 25 pianos in the workshop! I've tried them all. There was 3 grand. I've tried them for fun. One was not worthy as an instrument (ok if you want it as an element of decoration); one was okay; the other one was nice, but I didn't even asked for the price (I know it would have been in the early 5 digits).

I've tested every piano in there. There was 3 that I liked, so I took more time to compare. And I finally decided to get an upright yamaha. Very standard, but that was the one with the best sound, imo. The technician told be it hasn't been used much, so even if it is a piano from 1983 (if I recall correctly), it is in very good shape! The sound was mellow, the higher register easy to stand out for the melody, the touch was fine (if the touch doesn't bother me, it's fine for me. I don't know much more), the bases were good imo too. I was suprised since it is not very tall (all the tall pianos I've tried had an action I disliked. I felt the hammer coming back under my fingers. I hated it. And the sound wasn't great either).

I went over my budget a bit, but when I told 2000$, I was counting that I would have to spent 500$-700$ to move it and have it tuned.
They sold it to me 3200$, delivered, 5-year warranty, and 2 free tuning. My mom paid the taxes as an early birthday gift (my birthday is in 3 weeks). So, again, thanks mom! I won't say it was a bargain. I don't think it is. But I think it was a fair price.

I'll have it delivered on saturday!

I'm looking forward being able to play on a nice piano at home!

So I haven't bother you much with my shoping! This really finished quicker than I though, but I'm relieved. This was such a trouble to go check all those pianos!

The next thing I'll have to buy is a humidifier for winter (last winter, my house was at 20% humidity, which is a nightmare for a piano). I've already started the deshumidifier, which I've started tonight (humidity was 60%). Set it to 40%.

I don't know if there are some advices about that as well on that forum?
(I have some time ahead of me, but I'll definitely go search myself later).

Thanks again!


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I plan to learn this summer :
- Mozart K545, 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742233
06/05/18 07:54 AM
06/05/18 07:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,874
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Congratulations on your new-to-you Yamaha upright piano!

It sounds like you went shopping, found something that appealed to you and you liked, considered the cost, made a decision and will soon have the piano in your home to play anytime you feel like it! That sounds like success to me...

At some point, you may (or may not) outgrow the piano and have the desire and the means to get something better. That is usually the progression of piano ownership. But that is likely (or not) in the distant future.

For now (and all we really have is the moment) enjoy your piano to the fullest! smile

All the best,

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742234
06/05/18 08:12 AM
06/05/18 08:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 400
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GC13 Online content
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Congratulations on making a decision and finding a piano that you'll really enjoy! A new piano is always an exciting adventure. I hope it brings you many years of enjoyment.

Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742239
06/05/18 08:41 AM
06/05/18 08:41 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,499
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Georgia, USA
I'm glad you were able to try several pianos and then choose your favorite. Congratulations, Jouishy!
Getting the humidity up to 30% or more in the wintertime will definitely make your piano happier. Trying to pull the room humidity down from 60% to 40% with just a dehumidifier will probably be expensive (it will run often, and when it runs, it makes heat). If you can afford to tune your new piano twice a year, just set it to something more moderate for your summers on the St. Lawrence River, like 55%, or 60% if you don't run an air conditioner.

I have pleasant memories of visiting the old city when I was a kid, but my travels only bring me to Ottawa annually and Montreal on rare occasions. Also, I'm an idiot who can't speak French, and I've heard that Quebec City is a little harder to manage as a tourist from that point of view...do you think that's correct?


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742244
06/05/18 09:26 AM
06/05/18 09:26 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 80
Chicago
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John305 Online content
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Chicago
Congratulations Jouishy! I’m looking forward to see how much faster you advance with a piano at your disposal 24/7. And I’m already impressed with your growth in the short time you’ve been playing.

All the best.


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742250
06/05/18 10:02 AM
06/05/18 10:02 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,130
Florida
dogperson Offline
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Florida
Many congrats, Jouishy on the new piano! Hope it gives you many years of enjoyment


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742254
06/05/18 10:32 AM
06/05/18 10:32 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Jouishy Offline OP
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Jouishy  Offline OP
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Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Thanks everyone.

I'll be aware of my electric consumption. Maybe I'll put the settings a little bit higher (50%-55%).
This morning, it was 70%!


Terminaldegree : compared to Montreal, Quebec city is a little bit harder for English speakers, but there is a lot of tourism, so people working in downtown can speak both languages in most cases. If you go in other places, it can be a little bit harder (I remember working in a Tim Horton when I was a teenager. Our manager was so helpless when the guy was delivering the food, since he was only speaking English. She often asked someone else on the floor to go talk to him). But you can normally manage it. You may have to do the kind of things I did when, at 16 years old, I went to New York to discover that my English was very poor! I went to a Subway restaurant with my friends and we realised we were unable to tell which vegetables we wanted in our sandwiches. The guy decided to simply point them and we would simply say yes or no. We were in an "advanced" English class, so we felt so dump to have forgotten the name of some vegetables...


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I plan to learn this summer :
- Mozart K545, 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742256
06/05/18 10:45 AM
06/05/18 10:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 76
Washington DC area
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Ritz Online content
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Originally Posted by Jouishy


Terminaldegree : compared to Montreal, Quebec city is a little bit harder for English speakers, but there is a lot of tourism, so people working in downtown can speak both languages in most cases. If you go in other places, it can be a little bit harder (I remember working in a Tim Horton when I was a teenager. Our manager was so helpless when the guy was delivering the food, since he was only speaking English. She often asked someone else on the floor to go talk to him). But you can normally manage it. You may have to do the kind of things I did when, at 16 years old, I went to New York to discover that my English was very poor! I went to a Subway restaurant with my friends and we realised we were unable to tell which vegetables we wanted in our sandwiches. The guy decided to simply point them and we would simply say yes or no. We were in an "advanced" English class, so we felt so dump to have forgotten the name of some vegetables...


It's even more complex than that...the local dialect is more like 17th or 18th century French. smile My French seems to work fine when I am in France or Swizterland, but I find that I often have to repeat myself in Quebec.

Best,


1938 Chickering Baby Grand
Trying to learn about these fascinating instruments
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2742290
06/05/18 01:20 PM
06/05/18 01:20 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Jouishy Offline OP
Full Member
Jouishy  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Well, we were comparing Quebec city to Montreal, so there is not much difference about the French language spoken in those two cities. wink


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I plan to learn this summer :
- Mozart K545, 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2743788
06/12/18 01:51 AM
06/12/18 01:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 45
R
redfish1901 Offline
Full Member
redfish1901  Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 45
I hope the delivery went well and you are enjoying your piano!

Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Jouishy] #2743809
06/12/18 04:48 AM
06/12/18 04:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 129
Seattle
Campanella12 Offline
Full Member
Campanella12  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 129
Seattle
Congratulations to finding your piano!


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Re: Used upright Samick / Horugel; searching my first acoustic [Re: Campanella12] #2744022
06/13/18 12:05 AM
06/13/18 12:05 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Jouishy Offline OP
Full Member
Jouishy  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 95
Quebec city, QC
Originally Posted by redfish1901
I hope the delivery went well and you are enjoying your piano!

I am!

I've shared a video in here : http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2743233/my-yamaha-m1a.html#Post2743233

Originally Posted by Campanella12
Congratulations to finding your piano!

Thanks. smile


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I plan to learn this summer :
- Mozart K545, 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections

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