Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Schimmel Grand vs. Steinway Grand

I'm considering purchasing a 6'2"/6'3" Grand. I have enjoy the action and the tone of the both pianos. After visiting the Steinway store, I was given a lot of information of why I should choose a new Steinway or a Steinway restored Steinway over all others including Schimmel. Schimmel sounds a bit brighter than the Steinway but I may not be appreciating the true quality of either instrument.

I can purchase a 2 year old Schimmel for 40% of the price of a new Steinway. Warranties are not transferrable. I am far from an overly accomplished pianist but do appreciate quality. Would you help me made an educated decision?

Many thanks,
Indecisive in Dallas

Both are quality unstruments. Either can be voiced brighter or mellower to suit your taste. One will resell for more if you choose to do so in the future. However, that one will cost you better than twice as much in the first place.

Both pianos come with good actions, though the Schimmell may be more consistently regulated as is from the factory.

The polyester finish on the Schimmell will hold up FAR better than the lacquer on the Steinway. Either piano should last about as long with proper maintainence and environmental control

Which do you like better?

They are both fine pianos, and they both should sound and feel quite different from each other.

I would largely ignore any of the marketing hype, and trust what an independent technician [whom you should hire to inspect any used instrument, or new steinway for that matter IMO] has to say.

For many educated consumers, the price premium for a new Steinway is so out of touch with reality that we can't help but try the many other top-tier pianos from around the world which are available for tens of thousands less, but are equally capable pianos. For others, the particular sound, action, or prestige of the Steinway name is worth spending all that extra money.

At least you live in a large market where you have more than just these two choices, dealer-wise.

If the difference between the Steinway and the Schimmel is not enough to be the deciding factor for you, then I suggest looking at much less expensive brands.

Buy the Schimmel. It will able to be voiced and regulated to satisfy you and the quality of workmanship in the Schimmel is supreme.

Respectfully,

Oh, and if a salesperson tells you that a piano can be voiced to your satisfaction, you should not believe it.

Both are world class pianos. S&S is the icon of the domestic camp (U.S.) in tone. Schimmel is indicative of the European camp in tone. The new Schimmel scales are very robust and powerful for each size. The Euro sound will be charastically "clearer" IMO than the domestic sound. I don't hear "brighter" just more clarity and power.
S&S accelerated action will deliver a decidedly different feel than the Renner in the Schimmel.
They will always feel and sound different although voicing and regulation can bring them closer together.

Dear Dallas Dilemma,
I'm curious how old the Steinways are that you are comparing to a two-year-old Schimmel. IMO pianos do not get better with age. I would also be a little wary of a dealer telling you that they have Steinway restore their Steinways. Often, a dealer will have a local restorer recondition/build their Steinways with Steinway parts. At least on the West Coast, very few dealers I know of actually have Steinway rebuild their pianos. Have an independent tech inspect both. I believe Schimmel (although you may consider me biased because I work for a Schimmel dealer) is a wonderful value. (We sell used Steinways, too.) If you ignore the brand names and prices, which piano do you prefer the touch and tone of?

If you are having trouble deciding which piano you like better, then without a doubt the Schimmel is the better choice for you.

Spending all that money can be justified only if you can easily identify a much richer sound and greater possibilities for expression in the Steinway. Otherwise you are wasting the dough and are likely to experience buyers' remorse.

Two years is such a tiny blink in the life of high-class pianos that it makes no difference. With respect to age, you have two peas in a pod. If anything, the Schimmel is probably past the uncomfortable "breaking-in" stage (squeaks, rattles, stuck keys) that new piano owners routinely must endure.

Schimmels are great pianos in their own right, with first-class components and plenty of flexibility in how they can be voiced and regulated. They are high-class.

Schimmels usually produce an extremely clear tone that is super-easy to understand and appreciate. It is great tone, ultra-high quality.

Steinways usually have a rich tone that allows the pianist to achieve subtly different effects, or 'colors,' depending on subtle differences in how you touch the keys as you play. That is why classical pianists love Steinways. It takes time and patience to train your ear to begin to hear and appreciate such subtle effects--and most people never do--and some people finally hear them and then wonder what all the fuss is about.

Incidentally your Schimmel has a Renner action which many consider superior to the Steinway accelerated action. I own a Steinway model A grand. I had a Renner action installed. I like it much better now.

Of course other people like the Steinway action better than the Renner. It is a matter of taste.

It sounds as if your taste will allow you to save money. Count yourself lucky! It's a blessing.

(Those salesmen who are bending over backwards trying to give you reasons to buy the much more expensive piano might have their larger commission in mind rather than your best interest.)

Just my two cents.

The price issue would settle it for me. Add that to the fact that your ability as a pianist probably makes it impossible for you to detect the expressive limitations of either piano.

People approach the purchase of a grand piano as if it were a once in a lifetime event. I guess it is for most people but it doesn't have to be, especially if you devote years of time and effort to learning this instrument and develop a better idea of what you want from a piano.

Steinway and Schimmel are both quality high end pianos.Whether the new Steinway is worth 40% more than the preowned Schimmel is your call,personal subjective assessment and the finances at hand.
I will say this much, a remanufactured A-II or
A-III by a reputable rebuilder for the same $ as the Schimmel seems like a no brainer to me. I get individuals that trade in preowned Schimmels toward rebuilt Steinways.Though most were of 20 year old vintage. The newer scale design of recent(Schimmel) may be a great improvement. Does this two year old Schimmel fall into this category ?

Both instruments are high quality and you would probably be happy with either. Don't spend too much time playing the Steinways though. Once you hear the difference, you hear it.

Then you have a problem...

I haven't seen you mention exactly how much you're looking to spend. Not only are Schimmels less expensive to begin with, you can also deal more on a Schimmel. I have a new Schimmel 213T. I played several Steinway Bs, loved some, didn't others. I live in Denver but travel quite a bit and visited stores in several locations. I found a rebuilt Steinway B in New York that I fell in love with but they wanted almost as much for it as a new one. The Schimmel in NY listed for $54,000 and he made me an offer of $49,000. I ended up buying mine here in Colorado for $40k, off a list of $47k and they gave me another $7k for a 10 year old Weber 6' grand. I'm very happy with it, holds a tuning beautifully, it is brighter than the Steinway but I like that. It's all a matter of taste and preference and of course budget is usually an issue. If it weren't, I would probably have a 9' Bechstein.

Thanks for your input. I don't know the list on the 6'3" Schimmel but the one I'm looking at I believe is about 2 years old and I can get it in the mid 20's. I too think the Schimmel is brighter and would like to add a player to it so it's more than just furniture. A brand new one in Dallas I think is about $37,000.

You know, I've heard that a lot, but I've never experienced it. Sure, Steinway is a fine piano with certain characteristics, but I find this line of argument singularly unpersuasive absent a very good scientific explanation (which is never forthcoming).

Also, the Schimmel is not representative of Europe. That too is an oft-pedaled (pun intended) distinction that is not at all clear. The different European makers have their own sounds and Schimmel is not some representative stand-in.


DD,

A brand new 189T should sell for less than 37K. And what Steinway are you comparing it too (unless I missed that)? A 6'3" Steinway A sells new for over 50K.

Quote: " I too think the Schimmel is brighter and would like to add a player to it so it's more than just furniture. "

Dallas Dilemma,

speaking candidly I don't like wonderful pianos with or without a player system spoken of as "furniture". My sense of humour ends here. If you want furniture producing music, get some fancy antiques and put a HiFi set in.

I don't understand your dilemma. Schimmel and Steinway sound completely different. Both have good actions. There is a price difference.
So if you don't care for a special type of sound what instead do you care for? Image? Price? Fancyness? Please express yourself.

FYI--I just got a couple quotes from a Tacoma, Wa dealer on Schimmel 189T - $32,000 and 182 - $27,000. I also did notice that there were a number of 182 crates with a label on them that said "MADE IN POLAND" and that the price list book that the sales rep had did not list the 182. From reading the forum, I surmised that the 182 may be previous stock. But the sales person said it was newer than her book, so it was not listed. (?) (which left me wondering . . . .)

Price, though an important factor is not my deciding factor. Appreciation for the instrument, the tone, the overall quality all weigh heavily. What I believe this forum will provide is unbiased opinions; opinions that I may not receive from commissioned sales people.

Schimmel has two series, the Konzert series, which includes the 189T, and is their higher end, and the Classic series, which is mostly uprights but includes the 182, and I think does not have all the recent upgrades. Correct me, but some of the work on the Classic models are done in the Poland factory.

Piano*Dad* Writes: "You know, I've heard that a lot, but I've never experienced it. Sure, Steinway is a fine piano with certain characteristics, but I find this line of argument singularly unpersuasive absent a very good scientific explanation (which is never forthcoming)."

Count yourself lucky. Since you don't hear the difference, you have no reason to shell out the bucks for Steinway prices.

In my experience someone like you probably hears the difference perfectly well but you do not realize that it is what all the fuss is about.

A patient, determined music teacher could probably help you identify the "colors" you are hearing.

From your posts I bet you would probably be one of those who would laugh over a fool like me who pays big bucks for such a subtle difference.

As for a "scientific explanation," well, I am tempted to say that is like asking for a scientific explanation for why Rembrandt paintings are better than a kindergartener's first efforts at the canvas. But we can say something more: first we can point to the scale designs.

Through trial and error, luck, inspiration, and probably plenty of skill, Steinway happened to hit upon some fabulous scale designs that are great for producing the color that many classical musicians value deeply. The scale designs are patented and cannot be duplicated by other piano makers at any price.

You could also point to the extremely heavy-duty construction materials and methods that produce the conditions necessary for the Steinway scale designs to produce such great color.

You could also start talking about special craftsmanship, developed again largely through trial-and-error, that teach Steinway builders which particular twists and turns and details produce better results.

I have heard people from the physics department try to give a "scientific explanation" for why a Stradivarius sounds so much better than other violins.

Frankly I never get much out of such efforts, except maybe yawns.

If they cannot hear the difference between a Stradivarius and other violins, I doubt quoting science will help them suddenly hear it. Ditto for a Steinway and other pianos.

If someone doubts the existence of the difference because he does not hear it, then I think he should save money and buy a cheaper piano.

I have discussed piano color literally with people from across the globe. We seem to understand each other extremely well.

If others think that when we discuss color, we are discussing some sort of non-existent illusion that lacks a "scientific explanation,' then, well, all I can say is this:

I love the illusion. Probably I will never tire of discussing the illusion with others who love the illusion as much as I do.

Vive la illusion!

Just my opinion.

[ADDENDUM: Of course other high-end piano brands also produce many magnificient colors. No doubt they also accomplish this through years of careful craftsmanship and etc. I am not saying that ONLY Steinway produces lots of color. I believe there is such a thing as differences in piano color, and it pleases me that there is; that is all.]