Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
69 registered members (agraffe, AZNpiano, atcsam, ASR, 36251, astrotoy, 7uturu, 19 invisible), 927 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions #2740864
05/30/18 09:18 PM
05/30/18 09:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,341
New York
Mark_C Online content OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Online Content OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,341
New York
Pianoloverus gave us the thread on great codas. So why not this one too.....

Chopin gives us a bunch of easy ones:

G minor Ballade
Bb minor Sonata
Mazurka in C# minor, Op. 30 #4
....and of course the F minor Ballade, if we consider that an intro, which I do.

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2740891
05/31/18 12:27 AM
05/31/18 12:27 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,196
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,196
Phoenix, Arizona

Chopin - Heroic Polonaise Opus 53
Chopin - Valse Brillante Opus 34 No.1
Chopin - Valse Opus 42

Beethoven - Sonata Opus 78
Beethoven - Sonata Opus 13

Schumann - Papillons Opus 2

Liszt - Mazeppa
Liszt - Ricordanza
Liszt - Wilde Jagd
Liszt - Harmonies du Soir
Liszt - Eroica


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2740909
05/31/18 03:15 AM
05/31/18 03:15 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 463
Rural UK
F
Fareham Offline
Full Member
Fareham  Offline
Full Member
F

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 463
Rural UK
How about Mendelssohn's Rondo Capriccioso Op 14 ? (another warhorse)


The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2740911
05/31/18 03:37 AM
05/31/18 03:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,955
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Online happy
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Online Happy
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,955
Orange County, CA
Clementi Sonata in B minor, Op. 40, No. 2

Liszt Totentanz (okay, not really an introduction, but that opening is a bolt of lightning)

Both the Schumann and the Grieg Piano Concerti

Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2740930
05/31/18 06:27 AM
05/31/18 06:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 42
M
mp15 Offline
Full Member
mp15  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 42
Beethoven - Piano Concerto 4

Ravel - Oiseaux Tristes

Dohnanyi - Variations on a Nursery Theme


Beethoven - Piano Sonata, op. 101
Bartok - Piano Sonata
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2740941
05/31/18 07:46 AM
05/31/18 07:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 81
V
Vilhelm Moqvist Offline
Full Member
Vilhelm Moqvist  Offline
Full Member
V

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 81
Mahler Symphony 9
Mahler Symphony 7
Mahler Symphony 1 (yes I love Mahler)
Beethoven Les Adieux
Beethoven op. 111
Wagner Das Rheingold and Tristan and Isolde
Rachmaninoff sonata 1
Liszt sonata
Beethoven piano concerto 5

Seems like the germans are the master of introductions wink

Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2740965
05/31/18 09:51 AM
05/31/18 09:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 274
M
Midlife_Piano Offline
Full Member
Midlife_Piano  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 274
No one mentioned Chopin Barcarolle??

Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2740968
05/31/18 10:05 AM
05/31/18 10:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,107
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,107
Oakland


Semipro Tech
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: mp15] #2740982
05/31/18 11:52 AM
05/31/18 11:52 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,779
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,779
New York City
Originally Posted by mp15
Beethoven - Piano Concerto 4

Ravel - Oiseaux Tristes

Dohnanyi - Variations on a Nursery Theme
Is the Ravel example really an intro? To me that would just be the first statement of a motif?

Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2741031
05/31/18 03:16 PM
05/31/18 03:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,746
Vancouver, B.C.
Vid Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Vid  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,746
Vancouver, B.C.
Beethoven - 7th Symphony 1st movement
Chopin - Op 2 - Variations on "Là ci darem la mano"

Do overtures count?


  • Schimmel Upright
  • Kawai VPC-1 with Pianoteq

Any issues or concerns are piped to /dev/null
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2741082
05/31/18 07:51 PM
05/31/18 07:51 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 611
B
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member
boo1234  Offline
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 611
Tchaikovsky pc1

Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2741084
05/31/18 08:02 PM
05/31/18 08:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,107
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,107
Oakland
Reizenstein's Concerto Poplare.


Semipro Tech
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2741132
05/31/18 11:51 PM
05/31/18 11:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,724
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline
1000 Post Club Member
SiFi  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,724
Washington, DC
Originally Posted by Mark_C
the F minor Ballade, if we consider that an intro, which I do.

We're back to definitions again. That said, there is no conceivable sense in which the opening to the F minor Ballade could be considered an introduction. None of the great Chopin last period works has an introduction, including the Barcarolle, for reasons that I will be happy to explain if anyone is interested. I also do not think the opening to the second sonata is an introduction.

And I have to disagree with mp15. I can't remember how Oiseaux Tristes goes -- maybe that's ok, but in the Beethoven and Dohnanyi examples, the openings are the main themes -- in the latter case, the only theme! So, no.

booo1234 nailed it. Tchaikovsky's first concerto is the perfect example of an introduction that goes nowhere except where it should, viz. the composition that it precedes.

One of my favorite intros is Beethoven's first symphony, which is clever in a way that any educated listener can understand. Then there's Rheingold. This is not a "prelude" or "overture". It really is an introduction, of a unique and very powerful kind, to the 13 hours of music that follows.

Preludes to Tristan and Meistersingers are a bit more complicated. I'll leave that alone for now.


SRF
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: pianoloverus] #2741133
05/31/18 11:53 PM
05/31/18 11:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,724
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline
1000 Post Club Member
SiFi  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,724
Washington, DC
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by mp15
Beethoven - Piano Concerto 4

Ravel - Oiseaux Tristes

Dohnanyi - Variations on a Nursery Theme
Is the Ravel example really an intro? To me that would just be the first statement of a motif?

Yeah, I don't know Oiseaux Tristes, but the other examples are certainly not introductions.


SRF
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: SiFi] #2741135
06/01/18 12:26 AM
06/01/18 12:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,724
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline
1000 Post Club Member
SiFi  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,724
Washington, DC
Originally Posted by SiFi

. . . in the Beethoven and Dohnanyi examples, the openings are the main themes -- in the latter case, the only theme! So, no.

Ok, I forgot about the long introduction in the Dohnanyi and I totally retract what I said about it. Yes, that is a "classic", albeit satirical, introduction, in keeping with the rest of the piece. Actually a brilliant prelude to the huge anticlimax which is the first statement of the theme.

Apologies for my mistake. However, I stand firm on the Beethoven.


SRF
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: SiFi] #2741140
06/01/18 12:51 AM
06/01/18 12:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,341
New York
Mark_C Online content OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Online Content OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,341
New York
Originally Posted by SiFi
[....there is no conceivable sense in which the opening to the F minor Ballade could be considered an introduction. None of the great Chopin last period works has an introduction, including the Barcarolle, for reasons that I will be happy to explain if anyone is interested. I also do not think the opening to the second sonata is an introduction....

Funny, I most definitely consider all 3 of those most definitely to most definitely be most definitely introductions.
Although of course that's just my opinion. ha

Per what you said, it must be about differing concepts of what's an introduction or isn't. And really, wouldn't we have to say (most definitely) grin that this kind of thing is completely up for grabs, because, unlike some other things we might mention, like "fugue" or "concerto," introduction isn't a technical musical term or form or any such thing, and so it's only about however we see the plain English definition -- which can vary.

(And come to think of it so can fugue and concerto.) smile

Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2741191
06/01/18 07:28 AM
06/01/18 07:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 830
J
Julian_ Offline
500 Post Club Member
Julian_  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 830
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Pianoloverus gave us the thread on great codas. So why not this one too......
Nice thread! Yesterday I had the thought to start exactly such a thread but was facing a deadline for work so I didn't. I was sure that others would have the same idea and I'm happy to see this here.

Interestingly, my first example would be Chopin's Barcarolle (op. 60)! Let's imagine that the piece started with the quiet LH figuration. Though I could be wrong, I doubt that many people (perhaps anyone) to this day would have said, "It feels like something is missing at the beginning." I think it would still have been accepted and loved as a masterpiece of feeling. But add those opening bars and an extra dimension is added. I think that this factor, from a listener's perspective, is enough to shepherd the passage in question into the "introduction" category, even if a more musicological/analytical perspective would exclude it.

I don't think the F minor Ballade (Op. 52) really works without the opening measures - too abruptly declamatory -- there needs to be an vulnerable, tender, uneasy "gloomy murk" out of which the lament emerges -- but I feel like calling that an introduction too. If an opening passage precedes something that feels like the first "main" theme/idea/mood, that's good enough for me, even if it is an outline of the first or another theme.

Originally Posted by Mark_C
Mazurka in C# minor, Op. 30 #4

Yes! An outine/hint is given, which then becomes the actual theme. (By the way, am I the only one who finds the rhythm and flow of that intro extremely difficult to pull off? There seems to be a narrow and elusive "sweet spot" outside which my playing feels wooden and clunky. When the dotted rhythms arrive it feels like sinking into a comforting, warm bubble bath -- aaaaaa!) The atmosphere that Chopin builds up in those measures is remarkable. I'm sure that many of us could write pages about this piece.

I nominate the solo piano passage at the beginning of Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2. Deservedly famous/memorable/iconic.


(Used to post as SlatterFan)
Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2741254
06/01/18 11:05 AM
06/01/18 11:05 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 611
B
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member
boo1234  Offline
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 611
So do we think the Andante Spianato is really just an introduction for the Grand Polonaise, a separate work, or both?

Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2741289
06/01/18 01:17 PM
06/01/18 01:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,833
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Orange Soda King  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,833
Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Beethoven's 4th symphony immediately comes to mind.
And his Op. 111.

Re: ....folllowing up on codas: Great introductions [Re: Mark_C] #2741291
06/01/18 01:20 PM
06/01/18 01:20 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,779
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,779
New York City

Oh no!, the intro thread is about to overtake my coda thread! I wonder if a moderator can shut this thread down? laugh

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/01/18 01:20 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Ornament Accidental Changes for the Bar?
by abrogard. 03/23/19 08:01 PM
DP for someone how does not seem to want a DP
by Markuska. 03/23/19 07:29 PM
Steinway vs. Clavinova?
by Munn14464. 03/23/19 06:48 PM
Were my HD599s defective?
by peterws. 03/23/19 06:03 PM
learning to play with any other music than classical
by Stef London. 03/23/19 05:53 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics191,090
Posts2,810,077
Members92,859
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2