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First piano help #2740363
05/29/18 10:10 AM
05/29/18 10:10 AM
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Hi everyone! I'm looking to buy my first piano and I need some help. I know that the answer to my question is "go to the store and try them out", but I'd like to know what do you think. Before I continue, I apologize for any errors in my grammar.

I've been looking for the best digital pianos under 1000, and I've done some research and two pianos are named more often: Kawai ES110 and Roland FP30.

The thing is, that in my country (Chile) digital pianos are much more expensive than in US/Europe, and we don't have an extensive range of options. Besides, not every piano is available to be sent to Chile.

I found a page that the ES110 is at 579$ + 58$ the delivery (plus extra cash from customs duties). That was my first choice to buy.

But currently, we are in a 'CyberDay' thingy, so a music store is at discount prices, and I have found three new options.

1. Roland FP30 at 1000$
2. Casio AP-270 at 900$
3. Kawai KDP110 at 1100$

I know that the prices are still too much, but believe me, they are at 30-40% off.

So with everything in mind, what do you recomend considering their prices?

TLDR: What do you recommend, Kawai ES110, Roland FP30, Casio AP-270 or Kawai KDP110?

Thanks so much in advance!

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Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740370
05/29/18 10:22 AM
05/29/18 10:22 AM
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Posts: 529
Kitsap County, WA
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If you can get the ES110 for $579 that's a very good deal. The KDP110 is almost identical (it's more like furniture and has an extra keyboard sensor which there is debate around how much that helps you in practice) and I don't think the extras with it are $500 worth! Looking at your options, that price makes the ES110 a "no brainer" (meaning it's a clear choice, not much thought involved in choosing that.)

I have an ES110 and am very happy with it, I think you would be as well.



Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor
Re: First piano help [Re: squidbot] #2740382
05/29/18 10:45 AM
05/29/18 10:45 AM
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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I wish the ES110 would cost me just $579, with the taxes, duties and shipping I think the price would double.

Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740391
05/29/18 11:27 AM
05/29/18 11:27 AM
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Helsinki
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Ephixy Offline
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Helsinki
I bought the FP30 myself since i liked a heavy action, but i also liked the kawai es110 a lot, even though the action was pretty light. Looking at those prices, go for the kawai es 110 if it's still like 100-200 dollars ish cheaper than Fp-30 since in terms of usability, sound etc i found them very similiar.

Does Thomann ship there? Shipping seems to be free for products over 200 dollars.


Roland FP-30
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Re: First piano help [Re: Ephixy] #2740408
05/29/18 12:06 PM
05/29/18 12:06 PM
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ephixy
I bought the FP30 myself since i liked a heavy action, but i also liked the kawai es110 a lot, even though the action was pretty light. Looking at those prices, go for the kawai es 110 if it's still like 100-200 dollars ish cheaper than Fp-30 since in terms of usability, sound etc i found them very similiar.

Does Thomann ship there? Shipping seems to be free for products over 200 dollars.


Thanks! Yeah it does, the shipping costs $58, but I'm not sure how much the taxes will add to the price.

Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740429
05/29/18 01:29 PM
05/29/18 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
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Kitsap County, WA
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Originally Posted by Rhaegar21
I wish the ES110 would cost me just $579, with the taxes, duties and shipping I think the price would double.


Ah, I saw you mentioned taxes but it wasn't clear how much that would add to the price. Do the prices you mention for the FP30 and KDP110 include taxes? Is that exactly what you would pay? If so, it's clear that the KDP110 would be a better deal than the ES110 which you say would wind up at about $1200 after taxes. So at that point you would likely want to choose between the FP30 and the KDP110. The nice thing about the Kawai is that it has the stand and pedals built in. The FP30 is well regarded here on the forums as well, but some find the action not to their liking. If you have a chance to try them, it would be well worth your time.

My personal preference would be the KDP110, I prefer the sound of the Kawai to the Roland and I like the key feel, it makes playing trills and quick passages fairly easy. In my opinion the keyboard on the Casio is terrible.



Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor
Re: First piano help [Re: squidbot] #2740433
05/29/18 01:43 PM
05/29/18 01:43 PM
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by squidbot
Originally Posted by Rhaegar21
I wish the ES110 would cost me just $579, with the taxes, duties and shipping I think the price would double.


Ah, I saw you mentioned taxes but it wasn't clear how much that would add to the price. Do the prices you mention for the FP30 and KDP110 include taxes? Is that exactly what you would pay? If so, it's clear that the KDP110 would be a better deal than the ES110 which you say would wind up at about $1200 after taxes. So at that point you would likely want to choose between the FP30 and the KDP110. The nice thing about the Kawai is that it has the stand and pedals built in. The FP30 is well regarded here on the forums as well, but some find the action not to their liking. If you have a chance to try them, it would be well worth your time.

My personal preference would be the KDP110, I prefer the sound of the Kawai to the Roland and I like the key feel, it makes playing trills and quick passages fairly easy. In my opinion the keyboard on the Casio is terrible.


Sorry if I wasn't clear. The prices of KDP110, FP30 and AP-270 are exactly what I would pay.

I don't know in what reviewers to trust, since almost all of them are kinda biased. I found a blog, 'AZpiano', that claims to be unbiased, and talks wonders about the AP-270. So I want to know what makes it inferior to the others

Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740463
05/29/18 03:33 PM
05/29/18 03:33 PM
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The Casio Privia PX160 has the same keyboard and sound engine as the higher priced models, but is a lot cheaper because you're not paying for the furniture cabinet.
You can use it on a general purpose X stand, or pay more for a custom built wooden one if you want.

It's highly regarded generally as equivalent to the ES110/ Roland FP30 so I'd give that a look if I were you.

There does seem to be a bit of prejudice against Casios, possibly dating back to the days when they produced plastic organs for supermarkets, but they're judged to be as good as any of the other big makes now, pound for pound.


White Roland FP30
Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740470
05/29/18 03:39 PM
05/29/18 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 529
Kitsap County, WA
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Originally Posted by Rhaegar21
I found a blog, 'AZpiano', that claims to be unbiased, and talks wonders about the AP-270. So I want to know what makes it inferior to the others


That blog is absolutely biased, you can find other references here if you search the forum. He may be a nice guy, but he's there to sell his stock.

Again, my opinion only, the Casio sounds "ok" but I didn't feel like it had a lot of "life" to the sound, it was just kind of ho hum. However, I found the keys to feel cheap and plastic, they bottom out way to quickly and felt mushy. This was in comparison to playing on similarly priced Kawai, Yamaha and Roland instruments. There are others on the forum who love the Casios. This is why it's always best to try them out yourself and ignore my opinion smile

Last edited by squidbot; 05/29/18 03:45 PM.


Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor
Re: First piano help [Re: squidbot] #2740485
05/29/18 04:21 PM
05/29/18 04:21 PM
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by squidbot
Originally Posted by Rhaegar21
I found a blog, 'AZpiano', that claims to be unbiased, and talks wonders about the AP-270. So I want to know what makes it inferior to the others


That blog is absolutely biased, you can find other references here if you search the forum. He may be a nice guy, but he's there to sell his stock.

Thats good to know.

And thanks for you opinion! I like the KDP110 too, the problem is that is the most expensive of them.

Re: First piano help [Re: Lillith] #2740487
05/29/18 04:27 PM
05/29/18 04:27 PM
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Lillith
The Casio Privia PX160 has the same keyboard and sound engine as the higher priced models, but is a lot cheaper because you're not paying for the furniture cabinet.
You can use it on a general purpose X stand, or pay more for a custom built wooden one if you want.

It's highly regarded generally as equivalent to the ES110/ Roland FP30 so I'd give that a look if I were you.

There does seem to be a bit of prejudice against Casios, possibly dating back to the days when they produced plastic organs for supermarkets, but they're judged to be as good as any of the other big makes now, pound for pound.


Yeah I've read the Casio-prejudice before.

Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740527
05/29/18 06:39 PM
05/29/18 06:39 PM
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napilopez Offline
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Just wanted to join in and say that if you're a beginner, any of these keyboards will absolutely be great. Don't stress about it too much, like I did when I was doing my own search =]

I'm a beginner too (6 months) but have tried all the listed piano actions and sound. The FP-30 is generally my top recommendation in the price range.
I prefer the Casio to the Kawaii, but that is pretty unusual. I practice on a PX-560 that I love.

As mentioned previous, the PX160 has the same keyboard and sound engine as the AP-270, the only real difference is that the AP-270 will have better built in speakers and is a full on piece of furniture. But if you're going to be using these at home, you could connect the keyboard to your PC and have access to much better sounds than what any of these keyboards offer anyway.

Re: First piano help [Re: napilopez] #2740577
05/29/18 11:26 PM
05/29/18 11:26 PM
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by napilopez
Just wanted to join in and say that if you're a beginner, any of these keyboards will absolutely be great. Don't stress about it too much, like I did when I was doing my own search =]

I'm a beginner too (6 months) but have tried all the listed piano actions and sound. The FP-30 is generally my top recommendation in the price range.
I prefer the Casio to the Kawaii, but that is pretty unusual. I practice on a PX-560 that I love.

As mentioned previous, the PX160 has the same keyboard and sound engine as the AP-270, the only real difference is that the AP-270 will have better built in speakers and is a full on piece of furniture. But if you're going to be using these at home, you could connect the keyboard to your PC and have access to much better sounds than what any of these keyboards offer anyway.


The fact that I'm going to invest a lot of money adds stress to the search lol.

Thanks! I will consider the PX160 too

Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740583
05/30/18 12:16 AM
05/30/18 12:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 88
Hanoi, Vietnam
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HoangCosmic Offline
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I'd say, Px160/FP30/KDP110, depend on what you like best, to my opinion, FP30 has the best sound, KDP110 best action, PX160 best value
If Casio can improve their action by making it less bouncy and a bit more silence, perhap improve their sample also with less stretching, I would defenitely buy one

Last edited by HoangCosmic; 05/30/18 12:18 AM.

In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67
Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740604
05/30/18 03:22 AM
05/30/18 03:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 169
Chiltern Hills, England.
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gwing Offline
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Originally Posted by Rhaegar21


The fact that I'm going to invest a lot of money adds stress to the search lol.

Thanks! I will consider the PX160 too


Assuming that ebay is available there is an alternative approach. You might take the stress away by just buying something older , anything with weighted keys, to initially learn on and with patience might get something very cheaply.

The play it every day. After six months you'll have either stopped playing and know that another keyboard would be a waste of money or know which keyboard you actually want. At this point you will probably be looking at more expensive pianos though :-)

Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740650
05/30/18 08:57 AM
05/30/18 08:57 AM
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napilopez Offline
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Originally Posted by HoangCosmic
I'd say, Px160/FP30/KDP110, depend on what you like best, to my opinion, FP30 has the best sound, KDP110 best action, PX160 best value
If Casio can improve their action by making it less bouncy and a bit more silence, perhap improve their sample also with less stretching, I would defenitely buy one


The new sample in the PX-870 released this year definitely sounds a lot better to my ear, and the key have a better texture on them. I'd bet that Casio is planning on announcing a PX-170 at Summer NAMM with the new sample and improved texture. Not sure if the keys are quieter though, as I was only able to test the 870 in a loud store with headphones. It's the same overall action though, so shouldn't be too much of a difference there.

Originally Posted by Rhaegar21


The fact that I'm going to invest a lot of money adds stress to the search lol.

Thanks! I will consider the PX160 too


No problem! The PX-160 can usually be found quite cheap nowadays since it's been out for a while, which is why I recommend it. I've seen it for as low as $400. It's also worth considering that the older PX-150 has the same action and piano sound too, just worse speakers and slightly less features. If you mainly care about piano and will be practicing through headphones, it's pretty much the same, so you can try and see if you can find that one on the cheap.

That said, if you're a beginner who cares a lot about sound quality and is mainly playing at home, then there's a good chance you'll eventually move on to VSTs, many of which provide better sound than anything you'll find on a DP. It's important for me to have a good built in sound and speakers for spontaneous practice, but it's kind of funny that after I spent so long obesssing over the best value in DP piano sounds, 80 percent of my playing nowadays is done via VSTs.

Then again, my piano sits right next to my desktop, so there's no hassle for me setting that up.

Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740673
05/30/18 09:52 AM
05/30/18 09:52 AM
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the Px160 being better vs Px150 on the speaker front is mostly what casio put on the pamphlet because there was literally 0 changes between the models.Take it from someone who likes to disassemble things and measure phase of piano samples when he is bored. Oh yes, they did some different channeling for the speakers on the PX160 - I mean the hole for speaker is in different place.

But that how casio rolls. As an owner of px 860, I would totally go for 870.
There is zero reason to pay premium for AP models. ZERO. Except the AP700 which is in different level to PX and other AP due different samples.

Also lot of the extra features you read on website or pamphlet or hear from sellers is a total utter BS designed to make you spend more dough for extra features that are sometimes even fake. (example can be provided)


Casio PX-860, PX-150, Casio XW-P1, Roland jd-xi
Re: First piano help [Re: Rhaegar21] #2740678
05/30/18 10:06 AM
05/30/18 10:06 AM
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Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Online content
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Quote
. . . No problem! The PX-160 can usually be found quite cheap nowadays since it's been out for a while, which is why I recommend it. I've seen it for as low as $400. It's also worth considering that the older PX-150 has the same action and piano sound too, just worse speakers and slightly less features. If you mainly care about piano and will be practicing through headphones, it's pretty much the same, so you can try and see if you can find that one on the cheap.


+1. If money is tight, "buy the previous generation, used" is a reasonable strategy.

Craigslist (or Guitar Center "Used" listings) could be useful in finding a PX-150, and paying a fair price for it.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: First piano help [Re: oscar1] #2740775
05/30/18 02:32 PM
05/30/18 02:32 PM
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Hanoi, Vietnam
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HoangCosmic Offline
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Originally Posted by oscar1
the Px160 being better vs Px150 on the speaker front is mostly what casio put on the pamphlet because there was literally 0 changes between the models.Take it from someone who likes to disassemble things and measure phase of piano samples when he is bored. Oh yes, they did some different channeling for the speakers on the PX160 - I mean the hole for speaker is in different place.

But that how casio rolls. As an owner of px 860, I would totally go for 870.
There is zero reason to pay premium for AP models. ZERO. Except the AP700 which is in different level to PX and other AP due different samples.

Also lot of the extra features you read on website or pamphlet or hear from sellers is a total utter BS designed to make you spend more dough for extra features that are sometimes even fake. (example can be provided)


Wondering if you tried the AP700 out or not, to me those mid-high range Casio DP are still crap, poor action, and very poor piano sound compared to their competitor, even those diffferent sample on AP700 sound just bad. Casio did wonderful job with their entry lvl range, but those high range? I'd rather buy different brand

Last edited by HoangCosmic; 05/30/18 02:34 PM.

In 2 years: Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67

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