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Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: Hans Meiser] #2685325
10/27/17 09:05 AM
10/27/17 09:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 370
South Wales
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Colin Miles Offline
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Colin Miles  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2017
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South Wales
Hi Hans - as you may guess I wasn't too happy, especially as it probably cost me two or three hundred quid. It was not just the sounds but the poorly designed vt that also put me off. Fortunately they seem to have implemented a proper touch-screen menu system in the new CA78/98 series so if the sound problem has been solved in this series perhaps a swop to that? Alternatively consider the Roland LX range. Really good key action and dynamic range.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
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Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: Hans Meiser] #2685336
10/27/17 09:57 AM
10/27/17 09:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 12
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Hans Meiser Offline OP
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Hans Meiser  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
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Normally I wouldn't need a VT at all. It's nice to have though.

It would be a revolutionary step if companies like Kawai would open their high-end models to direct access, for example why not offering additional sample libraries and such things for easy swapping?

Their VT is a good step, but no Android app? With Android having around 60% market share? Well that's another discussion I know.

I knew that the CA98 was coming but I got the CA97 for a good price, and frankly the differences of the two as far as I consider it are not worth another 1000 bucks...

Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: Hans Meiser] #2688519
11/10/17 10:10 AM
11/10/17 10:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 329
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Hi Hans Meiser! Was the problem in your CA97 already identified and sorted out?

Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: Hans Meiser] #2740103
05/28/18 12:18 PM
05/28/18 12:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 191
Sydney, Australia
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ArtlessArt Offline
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Sorry to drag up an old thread. I was searching for loud notes on these forums and it seems the op had similar issues to what I'm having right now, i.e. a loud note playing not as intended.

I have also heard room acoustics may cause the problem, so I moved my piano to a different room and the loud note persists (D#5). I've tested with Pianoteq and it shows the key having the same velocity with adjacent keys (average test) so I don't think it's the sensors. On Pianoteq and with headphones, it sounds normal and the note does not 'jump out' at me and is of similar loudness as other keys, but with the internal speakers it is very evident that D#5 is louder and it rings in my head.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
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Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: ArtlessArt] #2740133
05/28/18 02:26 PM
05/28/18 02:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 329
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Sorry to drag up an old thread. I was searching for loud notes on these forums and it seems the op had similar issues to what I'm having right now, i.e. a loud note playing not as intended.

I have also heard room acoustics may cause the problem, so I moved my piano to a different room and the loud note persists (D#5). I've tested with Pianoteq and it shows the key having the same velocity with adjacent keys (average test) so I don't think it's the sensors. On Pianoteq and with headphones, it sounds normal and the note does not 'jump out' at me and is of similar loudness as other keys, but with the internal speakers it is very evident that D#5 is louder and it rings in my head.


You can try reducing the volume and/or the voicing of that specific key or keys. This can controlled by defining Voicing and Key Volume user settings under the VT. I also feel/hear a some "ringing" on my CA98, mainly around octaves 5 and 6, but I believe that is the result of the resonance model or even part of the original SK-EX samples since I have heard the same "ringing" effect on acoustic grands.

Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: Hans Meiser] #2740158
05/28/18 04:46 PM
05/28/18 04:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 191
Sydney, Australia
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ArtlessArt Offline
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Sydney, Australia
Not so much as ringing but particularly a specific note d#5 is loud and annoying. I've heard some people say it could be the room the the piano is housed... But how can a room cause a specific note to be louder (and sound weird) than the others?

IIRC it's more pronounced on the right speaker/tweeter.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: ArtlessArt] #2740168
05/28/18 05:22 PM
05/28/18 05:22 PM
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Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Not so much as ringing but particularly a specific note d#5 is loud and annoying. I've heard some people say it could be the room the the piano is housed... But how can a room cause a specific note to be louder (and sound weird) than the others?

IIRC it's more pronounced on the right speaker/tweeter.


Each person perceives particular frequencies differently and you may be particularly sensitive to what is being produced by that d#5 on your CA78. The room and the placing of the DP will influence how the cabinet resonates and that may indeed produce frequencies that are being perceived as "louder". But it is more likely this is just the result of your perception of the d#5 sample combined with the resonance model.

By the way, do you experience this in different pianist mode "characters" (classical, jazz, ballad, etc.) or with the resonance depth set to minimum? And what about the other acoustic pianos in sound mode? Anyway, while in pianist mode you should try reducing the key volume of d#5 on the VT to the minimum (-50) and then incrementally increase it until you start perceiving that note to be "louder" than the rest. You can also try reducing the voicing value of that key to make it mellower.

Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: ArtlessArt] #2740170
05/28/18 05:33 PM
05/28/18 05:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 54
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Steve.L Offline
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Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Not so much as ringing but particularly a specific note d#5 is loud and annoying. I've heard some people say it could be the room the the piano is housed... But how can a room cause a specific note to be louder (and sound weird) than the others?
I had a similar issue with my previous DP, a Casio PX860. Repositioned it and it made a difference. Does the note still sound louder through headphones? That takes the room out of the equation.

Last edited by Steve.L; 05/28/18 05:33 PM.
Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: Hans Meiser] #2740179
05/28/18 06:21 PM
05/28/18 06:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 325
Just outside London UK
akc42 Offline
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Just outside London UK
I made a very similar remark in my post here. I did manage to improve things a bit, but I now don't really use that piano sound as my default. (Note my terms SK-ConcertGrand and EX-ConcertGrand don't seem to match what other people seem to call the these and I didn't get any clarification in that thread). I now use the EX-ConcertGrand with voicing set to Mellow2.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...software-upgrade-v1-0-2.html#Post2737053

See posts on from that as to how to fix it.

Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: Steve.L] #2740263
05/29/18 03:11 AM
05/29/18 03:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 191
Sydney, Australia
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ArtlessArt Offline
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Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted by Steve.L
Does the note still sound louder through headphones? That takes the room out of the equation.


From what I can remember the loudness is pretty even with headphones so I don't think it's a sensor or sample issue.

It's most evident with the SK-EX Concert Grand and not so much with the other samples. As suggested, It could very well be my ear sensitivty or perhaps acoustics of the room, or maybe the right speaker pronouncing that certain frequency louder. However, I did move it around to see if it changes... I need to investigate further.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Kawai CA97, one key too loud? [Re: ArtlessArt] #2740338
05/29/18 09:04 AM
05/29/18 09:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 54
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Steve.L Offline
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Steve.L  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Originally Posted by Steve.L
Does the note still sound louder through headphones? That takes the room out of the equation.


From what I can remember the loudness is pretty even with headphones so I don't think it's a sensor or sample issue.

It's most evident with the SK-EX Concert Grand and not so much with the other samples. As suggested, It could very well be my ear sensitivty or perhaps acoustics of the room, or maybe the right speaker pronouncing that certain frequency louder. However, I did move it around to see if it changes... I need to investigate further.

It's also possible a particular object in the room is resonating in sympathy with that note. A vase, window pane or lamp shade, e.g. I've encountered this playing frequency sweeps through my audio system to calibrate the speakers.

Last edited by Steve.L; 05/29/18 09:05 AM.
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