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Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 #2738611
05/22/18 08:22 AM
05/22/18 08:22 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5
Cyprus
G
Georgio Offline OP
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Georgio  Offline OP
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Cyprus
Hello everyone,

I am a new member of this wonderful forum and I would like some of your valuable opinions on choosing a digital piano. After a long research, like everybody, I am pretty much down to these two models. For the Kawai model I found several reviews but for the Casio I couldn't find enough as it's just a month old. My question is, which do you think is a better overall piano, especially for a beginner? In particular I am interested about the key action( sensitivity, feeling etc). I would appreciate any help. Looking forward to your thoughts.

P.S. I plan to get a bundle with a wooden stand and pedals if I go for the Kawai, just to rule out that obvious advantage of the Casio model in your opinions.

Best Regards,

Giorgos

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Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738620
05/22/18 08:55 AM
05/22/18 08:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Wouldn't it make more sense to compare models that are at the same price range? I'm not sure of what's available in Cyprus, but the ES110 is entry-level, sub-$1000 USD, whereas the Casio is a bit above that, around $1500 USD. If those two models happen to cost you the same where you are, then I'd probably go with the Casio.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738621
05/22/18 09:06 AM
05/22/18 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 197
Sydney, Australia
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ArtlessArt Offline
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Can't go wrong with either to be honest. The AP470 has three sensors while the Kawai has two, not that it makes THAT much of a difference (totally subjective). Some people complain about the key return noise of the Kawai, but I like it as it replicates my upright's fallback noise.

I would say get the one with the better deal in your area.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738651
05/22/18 11:56 AM
05/22/18 11:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 57
ottokeys Offline
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One is a slab piano, the other a furniture design. One has Bluetooth, one doesn't. One has 2x7w speakers, the other has 2x20w. One has two-sensor keys, one the other has three. One has MIDI the other has USB. In the US one sells for $729, the other for $1500.

They are nothing alike. Your decision should be obvious to you based on your budget, your connection needs and and your aesthetic preferences alone.

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Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738667
05/22/18 01:40 PM
05/22/18 01:40 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2
Scotland
Stare Offline
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Scotland
It seems the Casio AP 470 is being marketed differently in Europe. In US it has 5 year warranty and bench included (Source:azpianonews). In EU its 3 years and no bench. The result is a lower price in EU. It seems to be £950 generally in UK, compared to £539 for the ES-110. However the ES-110 cabinet and 3 pedal bar is another £215 (!!!). So, in fact, they are not so far apart price-wise in Europe.

However, looking around I discovered that Chase have a sale on and are selling the AP470 for £720. Seems an amazing price (24% off!). Cheaper in fact than the ES-110 with cabinet and pedals. I don't know what use that deal is to someone in Cyprus, but wow. Unless you particularly have a preference for Kawai (sound/action/gigging/bluetooth) the Casio seems too good to miss (and too good to be true) at that price. I am looking at a similar purchase and if I had the money ready I would snap that AP470 deal up today. According to the review, functionally the Casio wins in most areas, and has a very nice new 'New York Steinway' sound, good action, 3 sensors etc etc. But personal desire/feels are relevant too.

Chase: https://www.chasedirect.co.uk/casio-ap-470-digital-piano-celviano
Review: https://azpianonews.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/casio-ap470-review-digital-piano-celviano-low-price.html

And from one newcomer to another: Welcome smile

Happy hunting

Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738673
05/22/18 01:46 PM
05/22/18 01:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 38
Canada
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Canada
IMHO, Kawai's new Responsive Hammer Compact (RHC) action, although 2 sensors, is superior to CASIO's Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action II in the AP-470 (and Privia lineups), if that matters to you.

Both are heavier and louder type of actions, which I prefer personally.

The Kawai ES110 comes with the Kawai EX Grand piano sound, a powerful and brilliant sounding concert grand piano, more on the bright side of a Japanese sounding piano, and is fully/individually sampled for all 88 keys.

Not sure about the CASIO AP470 but the Multi-dimensional Morphing AiR Sound Source leads me to believe it is using stretch groups (only one key is sampled every few keys or so and software does the rest for the in-betweens).

CASIO doesn't say where it samples it's piano source aside from their partnership with C. Bechstein for their Grand Hybrid series, but they are rumored to use Steinway concert grands for their sampling, again, a little more on the brighter side of European sounding concert grand piano.

The ES110 has much more potential versatility of use since it's portable, acts as a MIDI controller and looks decent enough if you get the stand/pedal setup. It will probably require an extra cover though (~$20 CAD).

The speakers for the AP470 are most likely superior given the power output and intentional design aesthetics (due to not being portable like the ES110).

Depending on your requirements, preferences, and aesthetic appeal, consider your budget and potential versatility.

My breakdown as follows:

Aesthetics: AP470 > ES110 (even with stand)

Key feel/Action: ES110 > AP470

Sound: Up to you, but note the sampling method as described earlier

Speakers: AP470 > ES110

Versatility: ES110 > AP470

Good luck!


All work and no piano make Homer something something.
--
Kawai ES8 | Dexibell VIVO S1 | CASIO PX-160
Sennheiser 598 SE & HD280 PRO| Behringer UMC204HD
--
Previous:
Yamaha NP-30 and NP-11 | some old Technics DP | an old CASIO CTK
Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738684
05/22/18 02:31 PM
05/22/18 02:31 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5
Cyprus
G
Georgio Offline OP
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Georgio  Offline OP
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Cyprus
Guys thank you so much for the warm welcome with all this information! Really helpful. As some of you wonder why I compare them, pricewise they do fall in the same range.Based on an online shop that ships where I live, Kawai ES 110 with a wooden stand, pedals, bench and even headphones comes at 777 euros ( just the piano 589 euros) while the Casio AP 470 comes at 886 euros.

Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738705
05/22/18 04:49 PM
05/22/18 04:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 57
ottokeys Offline
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What about the new Kawai KDP110? It's essentially a 3-sensor ES110 in a furniture cabinet. It was announced in January but in the US it's still very difficult to find. Seems to me that in terms of specs it's more comparable.

Just on checklist items, the Casio seems superior if they are close in price. But you may change your mind if you are able to try the pianos and compare action and sound. Best of luck!

Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738765
05/22/18 09:05 PM
05/22/18 09:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,355
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
+1 for the KDP110. A slightly updated action and SK-EX piano sounds which some prefer to the older EX piano sounds of the ES110.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Kawai James] #2738810
05/23/18 12:52 AM
05/23/18 12:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 38
Canada
pianosx Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted by Kawai James
+1 for the KDP110. A slightly updated action and SK-EX piano sounds which some prefer to the older EX piano sounds of the ES110.

Kind regards,
James
x


+1 as well for me.

Totally forgot about the KDP110, mostly because I'm looking at slabs rather than furniture cabinet styles.

The SK-EX sound sample is definitely worth it, less bright than the EX, with a more modern Japanese mellow sound, but very deep, and equally brilliant.

Plus tri-sensor RHCII? Win Win.


All work and no piano make Homer something something.
--
Kawai ES8 | Dexibell VIVO S1 | CASIO PX-160
Sennheiser 598 SE & HD280 PRO| Behringer UMC204HD
--
Previous:
Yamaha NP-30 and NP-11 | some old Technics DP | an old CASIO CTK
Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738818
05/23/18 02:07 AM
05/23/18 02:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,024
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Online content
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Doug M.  Online Content
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,024
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Georgio
Guys thank you so much for the warm welcome with all this information! Really helpful. As some of you wonder why I compare them, pricewise they do fall in the same range.Based on an online shop that ships where I live, Kawai ES 110 with a wooden stand, pedals, bench and even headphones comes at 777 euros ( just the piano 589 euros) while the Casio AP 470 comes at 886 euros.


Based upon where you live, maybe if you give us a full list of what's on offer, we can advise you better.
What's probably happening here is that due to the lack of market demand in your area (with Kawai probably not having official distribution networks set up), shipping one off instruments is going to cost more. Thus a bottom range instrument for Kawai is coming in at lower value for money than a Casio model a few rungs up.
Not only have you got the new market but the second hand market. I advise you to check both.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738827
05/23/18 02:39 AM
05/23/18 02:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,355
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Doug, that's a good point.

However, Georgio mentioned that he plans to purchase the piano online from a retailer that will ship the instrument to his country. Assuming this is a large retailer such as Thomann, the local distribution network should not have a great deal of influence over the price.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: ottokeys] #2738870
05/23/18 08:31 AM
05/23/18 08:31 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5
Cyprus
G
Georgio Offline OP
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Georgio  Offline OP
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Cyprus
Hello everyone,

I have been to three music shops in my city to test digital pianos in person but could not find Kawai ES 110, neither Casio AP 470. I would like to buy a piano locally but the in-shop prices vary at least ~200 euros upwards of the price of an online European retailer.

Anyway, I had the chance to check some others, like the Roland FP 30 , Casio AP 260 and Yamaha Arius YDP 143. I loved the design and feeling of the Yamaha while on the Ronald the presence of the sound emitting upwards (speakers on Yamaha face downwards).

Kawai KDP 110 at 969 euros looks stunning on photos and although Casio AP 460 specs-wise can compete with digital pianos double the price, I lean to Kawai KDP 110 because I feel I can trust more the quality it offers.

Now, I am not sure if it's worth spending around 250 euros extra for the Kawai KDP 110 rather than the Kawai ES 110. It's true that KDP 110 has better key action and sound, but ES 110 has upward facing speakers that I liked on the Roland model, plus it's much lighter to move around.

However, I am a beginner so moving around gigging is not now relevant. Also for learning, it would matter more to have a better key action and richer sound to develop myself.

So guys, from your comments and own judgement I think I am gonna go ahead for Kawai KDP 110.

Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738879
05/23/18 08:54 AM
05/23/18 08:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 197
Sydney, Australia
A
ArtlessArt Offline
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ArtlessArt  Offline
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Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted by Georgio


Now, I am not sure if it's worth spending around 250 euros extra for the Kawai KDP 110 rather than the Kawai ES 110. It's true that KDP 110 has better key action and sound, but ES 110 has upward facing speakers that I liked on the Roland model, plus it's much lighter to move around.

However, I am a beginner so moving around gigging is not now relevant. Also for learning, it would matter more to have a better key action and richer sound to develop myself.

So guys, from your comments and own judgement I think I am gonna go ahead for Kawai KDP 110.


Georgio just to not get you confused. The KDP 110 has the same key action "feel" to the ES110, but has an addition sensor. Also, the ES110 has speakers facing downwards, not sure about the speaker arrangement on the KDP tho. Regardless, KDP110 is a decent choice for beginner.

How did you like the Roland fp30? The shops I went to never had a demo of the Roland.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2738891
05/23/18 09:17 AM
05/23/18 09:17 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4
England
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bluebillytwo Offline
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Posts: 4
England
At around that price I'd be also be looking at the Kawai KDP110. It has a fallboard for dust protection of the keys, but is not portable like the Casio.

https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/kawai-kdp110-digital-piano.ir

Last edited by bluebillytwo; 05/23/18 09:18 AM.
Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: ArtlessArt] #2738897
05/23/18 09:28 AM
05/23/18 09:28 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5
Cyprus
G
Georgio Offline OP
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Georgio  Offline OP
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Cyprus
Speakers on the Kawai ES 110 seem to face upwards( array of six lines ) :

https://www.reidys.com/images/products.large/es110w.jpg

and at the back( small circular holes):

https://thumbs.static-thomann.de/thumb/bdbmagic/pics/bdb/405442/11794450_800.jpg

Regarding the Roland FP 30 , I was surprised of the rich sound it was producing. I was trying to find if it was connected to any external speakers but of course it wasn't. Also it didn't seem that metallic sounding as many people suggest or as you hear on YouTube videos.

Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: ArtlessArt] #2739082
05/24/18 08:15 AM
05/24/18 08:15 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5
Emerald Isle
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Cloudscape Offline
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Emerald Isle
Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
Georgio just to not get you confused. The KDP 110 has the same key action "feel" to the ES110, but has an addition sensor. Also, the ES110 has speakers facing downwards, not sure about the speaker arrangement on the KDP tho. Regardless, KDP110 is a decent choice for beginner.

How did you like the Roland fp30? The shops I went to never had a demo of the Roland.


I bought a ES110 this week and am thinking of returning it which COULD be due to the two sensor (apparently, the real answer is quite convoluted) - I have problems with playing repeated notes on ES110.

Re: Kawai ES110 vs Casio AP 470 [Re: Georgio] #2739340
05/25/18 08:19 AM
05/25/18 08:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 57
ottokeys Offline
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ottokeys  Offline
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Originally Posted by Georgio
Regarding the Roland FP 30 , I was surprised of the rich sound it was producing. I was trying to find if it was connected to any external speakers but of course it wasn't. Also it didn't seem that metallic sounding as many people suggest or as you hear on YouTube videos.


Even in this review video where the reviewer likes and recommends the FP30, he acknowledges and demonstrates the metallic character of the voicing (specifically at 4:45):



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