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A look at attitude and practice #2738993
05/23/18 07:24 PM
05/23/18 07:24 PM
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Arizona USA
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Finfan Offline OP
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I came across this image on line and I find it rather inspiring. Hopefully I'm not the 1000th person to post it.

https://thepracticeofpractice.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/talentmindsets_poster_6-5x11.pdf


Kawai ES8
Yamaha P105
Yamaha YPT220

A lack of talent does not stop you from learning piano. It just takes longer and you have to work harder.

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Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2738999
05/23/18 07:59 PM
05/23/18 07:59 PM
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It's great, apart from I would raise a question as to whether talent is "grown". I think talent is set, as a measure of potential. What is grown is "ability", and this is grown by talent x work.

I don't think one can increase or decrease one's talent, and the reason I say this is because talent is a natural aptitude.

Apart from that, it's a good chart.

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739002
05/23/18 08:34 PM
05/23/18 08:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
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Orange County, California
bSharp(C)yclist Offline
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Didn't you post this same thing in another thread already?


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Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739003
05/23/18 08:36 PM
05/23/18 08:36 PM
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Upstate SC
dobro Offline
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I like the seeking challenges and keep trying part. The talent argument will last forever but we won’t.


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PianoVideoLessons.com Currently unit 4
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Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739027
05/24/18 12:03 AM
05/24/18 12:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,334
Australia
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earlofmar Offline
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I have a great talent for self delusion smirk


Problems with piano are 90% psychological, the other 10% is in your head.

Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10


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Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: earlofmar] #2739033
05/24/18 01:18 AM
05/24/18 01:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
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Finland
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by earlofmar
I have a great talent for self delusion smirk

And I envy you for that. I think it is something required for making art.

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739048
05/24/18 05:59 AM
05/24/18 05:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 160
England
ID5894 Offline
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The usual corporate slogans of this era... "you can do it!, work! work! work!" Complete nonsense. Life's too short to waste it with cruel unrealistic expectations. Enjoy every day while you're alive because one day you'll die and there's nothing after this, just a reminder.

We can change our attitude, not our aptitude. We can have a true talent at something and not be aware of it though. But ultimately, any feeling of happiness will come mainly from our family and/or social relationships though, not through "achievements" of any kind.


Started January 2017. Working on Alfred Level 2 and Fundamental Keys. Yamaha P-115.
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739060
05/24/18 07:32 AM
05/24/18 07:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,078
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wouter79 Offline
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>The usual corporate slogans of this era... "you can do it!, work! work! work!" Complete nonsense.

Why do you say this? I think working deliberately to improve helps a lot getting where you want to be.

>Enjoy every day while you're alive
Well sure. But why is this in conflict with work?

>because one day you'll die and there's nothing after this, just a reminder
How do you know? And if you're right, why bother?

>But ultimately, any feeling of happiness will come mainly from our family and/or social relationships though, not through "achievements" of any kind

I don't agree. Happiness is a personal experience, has nothing to do with relationships. Hermits can also be happy.


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Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: wouter79] #2739067
05/24/18 08:06 AM
05/24/18 08:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,154
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


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Originally Posted by wouter79
Originally Posted by ID5894
The usual corporate slogans of this era... "you can do it!, work! work! work!" Complete nonsense.

Why do you say this? I think working deliberately to improve helps a lot getting where you want to be.

BTW, in the short time I've been visiting this forum, this topic has already been discussed independently at least twice, in just the last week.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: ID5894] #2739074
05/24/18 08:44 AM
05/24/18 08:44 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,408
Owen Sound, Ontario
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Greener Offline

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Originally Posted by ID5894
... Enjoy every day while you're alive because one day you'll die and there's nothing after this, just a reminder.


A reminder?

I thought divinity was still a big question mark and no official conclusion. If I'm wrong about this and you know how it all works, please explain.

Ageless Wisdom will remind you that you get to come back again and again and again, until you get it right. I'm fairly certain I didn't get very much right in this lifetime, so I'm planting as many seeds as I can so that next time when I come back I'll be more talented thumb

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: wouter79] #2739075
05/24/18 08:52 AM
05/24/18 08:52 AM
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Posts: 4,195
Finland
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by wouter79

>because one day you'll die and there's nothing after this, just a reminder
How do you know? And if you're right, why bother?

I think his point was don't bother, just live smile

Happiness however, if even needed, is generated purely within oneself. You do not really need any specific means to be happy. And if you do not have that skill, no amount of social relationships or achievements will get you there...

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Greener] #2739076
05/24/18 08:55 AM
05/24/18 08:55 AM
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Posts: 4,195
Finland
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Originally Posted by Greener
Originally Posted by ID5894
... Enjoy every day while you're alive because one day you'll die and there's nothing after this, just a reminder.


A reminder?

I thought divinity was still a big question mark and no official conclusion.

Only for those who do not know wink

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: wouter79] #2739084
05/24/18 09:21 AM
05/24/18 09:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 160
England
ID5894 Offline
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ID5894  Offline
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England
Originally Posted by Greener

I thought divinity was still a big question mark and no official conclusion.


Divinity is a man-made concept as far as anyone so far in History can tell. It is clear on what side the burden of proof is, as a negative cannot be proven.


Originally Posted by wouter79

I don't agree. Happiness is a personal experience, has nothing to do with relationships. Hermits can also be happy.


How many hermits do you know? A rule can have exceptions, but we're designed to connect with each other. Avoiding this is just our psychological self-defence when there's a sense of social failure, like the fox and the grapes. It also depends in the culture, historically some societies have been "designed" to be more socially-inhibited, as they're easier to rule, than others.


Started January 2017. Working on Alfred Level 2 and Fundamental Keys. Yamaha P-115.
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739109
05/24/18 10:58 AM
05/24/18 10:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 814
Upstate SC
dobro Offline
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Upstate SC
I’m a hermit and happy but not sure how it relates to piano. Interesting discussion.


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PianoVideoLessons.com Currently unit 4
Faber All In One -Level 2
Grateful Dead fan since 1987
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739114
05/24/18 11:26 AM
05/24/18 11:26 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 324
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Online happy
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I'm way more happy when playing and practicing the piano than in social gathering. I'm single and don't want to be involved in a relationship.

Saying the true happiness comes from relationship is a personal perspective. Each individual is different. Relationship is important, yes, but the importance is different for each individual. To be happy, I need to do at least 5 hours of music each week, but I can see my friends only once a month and I'll still be happy. Ergo the person saying this is a very individual matters, depending of your values in life. I'm no hermit, but I have a big "bubble" and need a lot of "me" time. Piano time is part of my "me" time.


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Rameau, Les Sauvages
- (Classical piece TBD)
- Chopin, nocturne op. posth. in C# minor
- Debussy, Golliwog's cakewalk
- Pozzoli, E.R. 427, etude no. 6
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2739115
05/24/18 11:27 AM
05/24/18 11:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 325
Arizona USA
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Finfan Offline OP
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Arizona USA
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Didn't you post this same thing in another thread already?


Ack! You're right I did. It's heck when you get old and senile! smirk


Kawai ES8
Yamaha P105
Yamaha YPT220

A lack of talent does not stop you from learning piano. It just takes longer and you have to work harder.

[Linked Image]
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739121
05/24/18 11:47 AM
05/24/18 11:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 535
Toronto, Canada
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thepianoplayer416 Online content
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The way I think of someone with talent is that he/she is a young virtuoso who learned to play challenging pieces before age 10. These people are destined for a career in music. Someone like the English piano / violin virtuoso Alma Deutscher who also wrote an opera "Cinderella" at age 9.

For the rest of us we learned to play music at an older age out of interest. Personally my sister & I both tried a few piano lessons when we were 5. The parents didn't think we had talent and stopped paying for more lessons. In the meantime, picked up playing violin. Many years later decided to get a keyboard for learning. Got enrolled in a group class for adults. People in the group all have proficiency playing piano at some level but having a career in music is not what we are after. Some of us are working in other fields and some retired already. We play music for interest so learning a Chopin piece in a month instead of a week isn't an issue. Some are better at sight-reading while others like myself rely more on memory to get through different pieces.

There are a several people in my family who passed their conservatory exams before graduating from high school... people you'd call talented. They pursued other careers and no longer play piano. Meanwhile I'm going through the weekly ritual of playing scales, doing warm-up exercises, working on a few pieces at a time starting with slow practice to get all the notes and making recordings. There are kids who get enrolled in a music program at a young age by their parents to learn about discipline. The end of the day no matter how much talent a person has, if he/she does not have any interest playing music, that person would not touch an instrument again after he/she stopped taking lessons.

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2739122
05/24/18 12:03 PM
05/24/18 12:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,154
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
Someone like the English piano / violin virtuoso Alma Deutscher who also wrote an opera "Cinderella" at age 9.

And it's a darn good opera too. But I doubt her particular "talent" is limited to music. For example, the libretto for Cinderella is in German. Ignoring for the moment that it is an opera, what 9-year old native-English speaker would think about publishing something or putting on a professional performance in the German language? I'm sure her IQ (or whatever measure of intellect one might choose) is through the roof...


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: ID5894] #2739132
05/24/18 12:35 PM
05/24/18 12:35 PM
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Posts: 2,408
Owen Sound, Ontario
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Greener Offline

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Originally Posted by ID5894
... we're designed to connect with each other. Avoiding this is just our psychological self-defence when there's a sense of social failure


"Money can't buy you happiness, but it is sure nice to be able to pull your Yacht up next to it.
"

I would still like the Yacht, but not likely I will ever have it. Relationships don't make you happy any more then the Yacht does. Not being in one does not mean avoiding one. Being in one doesn't mean happiness.

Happiness is just state of mind not dependent and wanting of anything. Isn't that why Buddha went out on his own ?

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2739280
05/25/18 05:14 AM
05/25/18 05:14 AM
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Sweden
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ghosthand Offline
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Originally Posted by Slothrop, Tyrone
Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
Someone like the English piano / violin virtuoso Alma Deutscher who also wrote an opera "Cinderella" at age 9.

And it's a darn good opera too. But I doubt her particular "talent" is limited to music. For example, the libretto for Cinderella is in German. Ignoring for the moment that it is an opera, what 9-year old native-English speaker would think about publishing something or putting on a professional performance in the German language? I'm sure her IQ (or whatever measure of intellect one might choose) is through the roof...



Sure, but her name should give you some hints in a certain direction. "Deutscher" means "German" in German ...

Last edited by ghosthand; 05/25/18 05:15 AM.
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