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Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739635
05/26/18 12:08 PM
05/26/18 12:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 405
Toronto, Canada
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There are a lot of people who are self-taught playing an instrument. For me having teachers in the early years to learn reading music was a big plus. In my later years, I learned to play many pieces on my own including Bach minuets, Beethoven sonatas. It is a big shift playing by the teacher's assigned repertoire approach.

At the end of the day, how much do we credit our ability to play an instrument to a good teacher and ourselves (whether self-taught or with a teacher)? Sorry to have to go back to people in the family who supposedly passed conservatory exams but cannot play in front of an audience vs. people like myself who performed on & off with a group since high school. I am sure the ones who passed their exams had good teachers but I've never heard them play even the most basic pieces "Lightly Row" or "Mary Had a Little Lamb" so don't want to pass judgement. A while ago a cousin had the sheet music "Linus & Lucy" by Vince Guaraldi for the Charlie Brown cartoon series on the piano stand. That was over 5 years ago and didn't hear anything since.

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Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2739641
05/26/18 12:28 PM
05/26/18 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,279
Canada
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I'm not sure if this was a response to my post, or in general.
Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
There are a lot of people who are self-taught playing an instrument. For me having teachers in the early years to learn reading music was a big plus. In my later years, I learned to play many pieces on my own including Bach minuets, Beethoven sonatas. It is a big shift playing by the teacher's assigned repertoire approach.

At the end of the day, how much do we credit our ability to play an instrument to a good teacher and ourselves (whether self-taught or with a teacher)?

I don't know if you read my response. It was rather lengthy. In it I gave you my background, and the fact that I was self-taught on various instruments for years. I cannot credit that first ability to any teacher, good or otherwise, because I didn't have one. I also outlined some of the things that one can get from a good teacher. Being able to play repertoire, in and of itself, is not in there. Did you have a chance to look at my various points? wink

Re: "Beethoven sonatas" --- I played whatever was in the stash passed on from my grandmother, without a teacher, without being taught anything, back then. There were sonatas in there. But what I can do with even simple music now, let alone these, versus then, is quite a difference. Unfortunately a lot of teachers who "teach" music do little more than "go through pieces".

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2739643
05/26/18 12:31 PM
05/26/18 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
Sorry to have to go back to people in the family who supposedly passed conservatory exams but cannot play in front of an audience

What conservatory was this, because it sounds like one to avoid? Most conservatories I know of, including ones for which I know some of the former attendees, require auditions and much playing in front of at least small audiences. A conservatory, which trains students to play piano (or any instrument) in the privacy of their bathroom is not one that I would recommend for the children of any family member - "fake school"!


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2739648
05/26/18 12:42 PM
05/26/18 12:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,279
Canada
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Originally Posted by Slothrop, Tyrone
What conservatory was this, because it sounds like one to avoid? Most conservatories I know of, including ones for which I know some of the former attendees, require auditions and much playing in front of at least small audiences. A conservatory, which trains students to play piano (or any instrument) in the privacy of their bathroom is not one that I would recommend for the children of any family member - "fake school"!

No. Being able to pass exams, and being able to play music independently, or wanting to, are very different things. What Tpp416 is saying is very common, and that is also why I think I wrote some caveats in the teacher forum to your question about RCM exams. In regard to "required public playing" - when handled badly (which often it is), it will be endured by the student, and ensures that the student will never, ever, want to play in public again.

For the last, I would rather study with someone in a bathroom, if they are an excellent teacher, than in premises that look all impressive and official.

Last edited by keystring; 05/26/18 12:45 PM.
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: keystring] #2739655
05/26/18 01:03 PM
05/26/18 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,114
In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by malkin
Pretty far from a model family.

Can you explain what you mean by this? What is a "model family", for example? And how are they far from it? Does this mean that families are supposed to be a certain way (the model) and they fall away from that? (I'm genuinely lost).



My thoughts exactly! What are they NOT a "model family?" I have only heard positive things about this family!

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Finfan] #2739770
05/27/18 02:20 AM
05/27/18 02:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 405
Toronto, Canada
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The bottom-line for learning an instrument is that a person has an interest in music. You can give a person a brush and train him to be a good painter but if he has no interest in art, he is not going to create masterpieces. Someone in the family once played an accordion. The instrument sat in the closet for many years until one day he took it out for practice. Next he went to a music store and got a beginner's book with easy songs like "Mary Had a Little Lamb", "Lightly Row". After a few weeks the instrument went back into the closet. Can't say that person has no talent, only that he hasn't got to the level he is comfortable playing anything more difficult without a teacher.

Once met someone in primary school who got enrolled in a Yamaha music program by his parents. Like the Suzuki program from Japan, the program require parental participation (at least 1 parent learn the instrument with the child) and a year-end recital (to get a student on stage to build confidence) before advancing to the next level. The father works during the day so the mother took the child to his lessons. After a year, the mother thought she had more interest learning to play piano & practicing than the son so he quit. Not saying that the boy has no talent in music just that he has other interests such as cooking after watching many cooking shows. Being a concert pianist is off the list but being a master chef is still a possibility. Once read an article online from the president of the Kawai Association of America. He wanted his son to be able to play piano and got him enrolled in music lessons. His son hated it and switched to playing baseball instead. A lot of parents got their kids enrolled in a music program hoping they would develop an interest in music. You can tell within a year if the kids are making progress. Not that they are not talented but the interest has to be there.

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: CadenzaVvi] #2739778
05/27/18 03:39 AM
05/27/18 03:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 203
Sydney NSW Australia
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Originally Posted by Jouishy
I'm way more happy when playing and practicing the piano than in social gathering. I'm single and don't want to be involved in a relationship.

Saying the true happiness comes from relationship is a personal perspective. Each individual is different. Relationship is important, yes, but the importance is different for each individual. To be happy, I need to do at least 5 hours of music each week, but I can see my friends only once a month and I'll still be happy. Ergo the person saying this is a very individual matters, depending of your values in life. I'm no hermit, but I have a big "bubble" and need a lot of "me" time. Piano time is part of my "me" time.


Gosh that could have been written by me.


"Study Bach: there you will find everything" - Johannes Brahms.
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: ID5894] #2739781
05/27/18 03:45 AM
05/27/18 03:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 203
Sydney NSW Australia
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Originally Posted by ID5894
The usual corporate slogans of this era... "you can do it!, work! work! work!" Complete nonsense. Life's too short to waste it with cruel unrealistic expectations. Enjoy every day while you're alive because one day you'll die and there's nothing after this, just a reminder.

We can change our attitude, not our aptitude. We can have a true talent at something and not be aware of it though. But ultimately, any feeling of happiness will come mainly from our family and/or social relationships though, not through "achievements" of any kind.


I am not having a dig at you personally, but the life is short, life os too short to... Argument is to me an overused cliche and somewhat meaningless and short is a relative term. Our own life is the longest thing we will ever experience. Everything else, whatever the duration, is shorter.


"Study Bach: there you will find everything" - Johannes Brahms.
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2739786
05/27/18 04:59 AM
05/27/18 04:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,279
Canada
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Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
The bottom-line for learning an instrument is that a person has an interest in music. .

It's like you're only on send-mode. wink I told my story twice, I think. No response to the idea of someone who has a keen interest, and no guidance whatsoever, and what that does. It is NOT just interest. You need an instrument, to start with, and somebody or something to guide you, or you hit glass ceilings, or later have a lot to undo and relearn. Which is precisely where I am now, in my sixties.

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: keystring] #2739788
05/27/18 05:10 AM
05/27/18 05:10 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,795
Florida
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
The bottom-line for learning an instrument is that a person has an interest in music. .

It's like you're only on send-mode. wink I told my story twice, I think. No response to the idea of someone who has a keen interest, and no guidance whatsoever, and what that does. It is NOT just interest. You need an instrument, to start with, and somebody or something to guide you, or you hit glass ceilings, or later have a lot to undo and relearn. Which is precisely where I am now, in my sixties.


I think everybody’s talking over each other. A person needs to first have interest, because without that an instrument and guidance means nothing. And then you also need an instrument and guidance


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: NobleHouse] #2739824
05/27/18 09:48 AM
05/27/18 09:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 136
Salish Sea
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by malkin
Pretty far from a model family.

Can you explain what you mean by this? What is a "model family", for example? And how are they far from it? Does this mean that families are supposed to be a certain way (the model) and they fall away from that? (I'm genuinely lost).



My thoughts exactly! What are they NOT a "model family?" I have only heard positive things about this family!


I’m pretty sure what was meant was “not a TYPICAL family...” That CBS video was wonderful. Life at home with that family is a reality show I’d love to watch!


”Mister Upright,” Yamaha YUS5.
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: akc42] #2742661
06/06/18 06:44 PM
06/06/18 06:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,303
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Originally Posted by akc42
Originally Posted by ghosthand
Originally Posted by Slothrop, Tyrone
Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
Someone like the English piano / violin virtuoso Alma Deutscher who also wrote an opera "Cinderella" at age 9.

And it's a darn good opera too. But I doubt her particular "talent" is limited to music. For example, the libretto for Cinderella is in German. Ignoring for the moment that it is an opera, what 9-year old native-English speaker would think about publishing something or putting on a professional performance in the German language? I'm sure her IQ (or whatever measure of intellect one might choose) is through the roof...



Sure, but her name should give you some hints in a certain direction. "Deutscher" means "German" in German ...


I believe she was born in the UK, but has parents who have Israeli connections - I believe she speaks some Hebrew. I am not aware of German connections, but I don't think if there are any its related to her name. I don't think she wrote the lyrics for the opera - I am pretty sure I read somewhere that someone else had done those (although maybe in collaboration). Remember there is also an English version of this opera that was performed in San Diego around Christmas time.

That said, she could have written it in German. She speaks quite passable German, I think, but maybe one of our native German speakers can weigh in. From earlier today in Vienna:


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: Qwerty53] #2742763
06/07/18 07:14 AM
06/07/18 07:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,899
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malkin Offline
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Originally Posted by Qwerty53

Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by malkin
Pretty far from a model family.

Can you explain what you mean by this? What is a "model family", for example? And how are they far from it? Does this mean that families are supposed to be a certain way (the model) and they fall away from that? (I'm genuinely lost).



My thoughts exactly! What are they NOT a "model family?" I have only heard positive things about this family!


I’m pretty sure what was meant was “not a TYPICAL family...” That CBS video was wonderful. Life at home with that family is a reality show I’d love to watch!


I was referring to the sexual abuse perpetrated on the girls by their father.
I think this answers the questions posed by NobleHouse about "model family" without further explanation.


I've been trying to change my signature quote for weeks.

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: malkin] #2742886
06/07/18 06:07 PM
06/07/18 06:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,114
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
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Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by Qwerty53

Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by malkin
Pretty far from a model family.

Can you explain what you mean by this? What is a "model family", for example? And how are they far from it? Does this mean that families are supposed to be a certain way (the model) and they fall away from that? (I'm genuinely lost).



My thoughts exactly! What are they NOT a "model family?" I have only heard positive things about this family!


I’m pretty sure what was meant was “not a TYPICAL family...” That CBS video was wonderful. Life at home with that family is a reality show I’d love to watch!


I was referring to the sexual abuse perpetrated on the girls by their father.
I think this answers the questions posed by NobleHouse about "model family" without further explanation.


This reflects nothing on the 5 Browns! The five siblings would still be considered a model group. Victims-Yes. But just victims.

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: NobleHouse] #2743466
06/10/18 02:51 PM
06/10/18 02:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,899
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malkin Offline
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse

Victims-Yes. But just victims.


Not "just victims." Survivors.

Originally Posted by keystring

Can you explain what you mean by this? What is a "model family", for example? And how are they far from it? Does this mean that families are supposed to be a certain way (the model) and they fall away from that? (I'm genuinely lost).


Yes. The certain way that families are supposed to be is that parents nurture and protect children.
Sexually abusing the children falls away from that.
Even if the children turn out to be splendid musicians.


I've been trying to change my signature quote for weeks.

Re: A look at attitude and practice [Re: malkin] #2744510
06/14/18 06:28 PM
06/14/18 06:28 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Originally Posted by malkin
The certain way that families are supposed to be is that parents nurture and protect children.
Sexually abusing the children falls away from that.
Even if the children turn out to be splendid musicians.

I just found a newspaper story discussing the sad situation Malkin is referring to.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
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