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Thanks Piano Teachers! #2738935
05/23/18 01:55 PM
05/23/18 01:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
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MaggieGirl Offline OP
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My daughter "quit" piano just before she started high school. Her teacher left, the studio did not have an appropriate replacement and then life just got busy. A lot of times, I have thought lessons without long-term commitment were a waste of money (I was really disappointed when she was no longer taking lessons) but...piano lessons have a long lasting effect.

Over the past 2 years she has said:
Learning how to read music makes it easy to play something I'm unfamiliar with, I can transpose notes to chords on a ukulele, I understand and appreciate different types of music - not just what my friends listen to, learning music helps with dance or skating - you have more musicality than people who do not learn music and the most recent - at practice for her sport the coach asked them to jump rope. She said people who know music, know how to keep time and jump much better than those who don't know music because they don't have any sort of internal rhythm.

I just thought I'd share her observations - they aren't the classic piano benefit list I'm used to seeing.

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Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: MaggieGirl] #2738976
05/23/18 05:47 PM
05/23/18 05:47 PM
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So neat MaggieGirl. Great to hear from you again! I've found so many "hidden benefits" of having my kids participate in music lessons too. It's really a lifelong gift that we are offering our children.


Yamaha G2
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: pianoMom2006] #2739011
05/23/18 09:07 PM
05/23/18 09:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 844
In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by pianoMom2006
So neat MaggieGirl. Great to hear from you again! I've found so many "hidden benefits" of having my kids participate in music lessons too. It's really a lifelong gift that we are offering our children.




It is so true. It was a blessing for my son to take piano all those years.

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: MaggieGirl] #2739142
05/24/18 01:26 PM
05/24/18 01:26 PM
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Vancouver BC
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The Monkeys Offline
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Welcome back MaggieGirl!

Love to hear from you but I don't think the internal rhythm is something you learn. Music lessons can bring it out and make it stronger that I agree, but if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far. Once I told my son that he should keep playing basketball as it would help him to grow taller, he looked at me, said: "playing basketball doesn't help you to get taller, taller people play basketball".

Having said that, the capability is not binary, most people are in between somewhere poor and excellent, they are just normal, and music lesson can help, to some extent.

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2739199
05/24/18 06:16 PM
05/24/18 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
Welcome back MaggieGirl!

Love to hear from you but I don't think the internal rhythm is something you learn. Music lessons can bring it out and make it stronger that I agree, but if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far. Once I told my son that he should keep playing basketball as it would help him to grow taller, he looked at me, said: "playing basketball doesn't help you to get taller, taller people play basketball".

Having said that, the capability is not binary, most people are in between somewhere poor and excellent, they are just normal, and music lesson can help, to some extent.


In addition, the gross motor coordination needed for jumping rope is totally different from the ability to create musical rhythm. (How do I know this? smile )


1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Chopin, Waltz in E minor (op. posth.)
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
Mendelssohn, Op. 19 no. 2
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2739264
05/25/18 03:30 AM
05/25/18 03:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,647
Orange County, CA
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
I don't think the internal rhythm is something you learn. Music lessons can bring it out and make it stronger that I agree, but if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far.

You can say that about anything.

I have a student who can't count half notes.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: MaggieGirl] #2740193
05/28/18 07:16 PM
05/28/18 07:16 PM
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Those are good points MaggieGirl. As for what the Monkey says, you can do exercises to create a strong core pulse in children. You can have them mimic what you sing, you can have them march around the room as you play a simple 2/4 song, you can teach them to conduct a 2/4 pattern, you can correct their rhythm. I suppose if you did all these things and they still had no rhythm, you might be right.

It's a rare thing in my opinion.

Last edited by Candywoman; 05/28/18 07:17 PM.
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: MaggieGirl] #2740264
05/29/18 03:14 AM
05/29/18 03:14 AM
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Vancouver BC
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I am skeptical about all the wonderful benefits of music lessons, other than learning the music itself. Yes, there is a strong correlation between musical achievement and academic achievement, I believe that. But I am not sure there is a causation.

But piano lessons does help the learning other instruments, a lot I would say.

I attended my son's handbell choir concert and I was amazed by the 45 minutes of sophisticated music they delivered, with just 4 months of practice, one 2 hour rehearsal each week. Every kid in the choir plays at least one instrument, mostly piano, to a fairly high level. I just don't think they could have made it without the higher level understanding of music.

He also plays saxophone at school band, he just leaves the saxophone at the locker, almost never takes it home to practice, just the 2-3 hours a week at school, and he is one of the better players at his junior band. It seems that all the kids that do well in the band take private music lessons of other instruments.

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: MaggieGirl] #2741487
06/02/18 06:08 AM
06/02/18 06:08 AM
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I believe learning to play piano has many life benefits for my son such as:

- Accepting constructive criticism.
- Feeling comfortable on a stage
- Improved coordination (left/right hand pedal)
- Improved memory (by exercising it) for memorizes pieces.
- Time management.
- The belief that you can accomplish things that seem impossible if you put in the work
-Self- confidence
- Paying attention to detail

Now I don’t think the above works for a kid that hates piano and I believe life is too short to force your child into music if that’s not where his/ her interest lie.

Last edited by pianoMom2006; 06/02/18 06:10 AM.

Yamaha G2
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2741567
06/02/18 12:54 PM
06/02/18 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
Love to hear from you but I don't think the internal rhythm is something you learn. Music lessons can bring it out and make it stronger that I agree, but if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far.


Adult beginner here, maybe I should just throw in the towel cry My teacher literally gave up on me during dance classes as a kid, I could not clap along to save my life, and the game Dance Dance Revolution was a totally incomprehensible to me, even when played with a controller. I hated "music/rhythm games" as a genre.

...although funny enough I rediscovered rhythm games as an adult and playing them multiple times inspired me to get back to piano. I figured I was wasting all this time playing making virtual music in a virtual game, might as well use the time to create REAL music instead!


Working on: Schumann Album for the Young, Clementi Op 36 No. 1 (all movements), Various Bach, Czerny 599
+ CASIO PX-720 and PX-730 +
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2741579
06/02/18 02:15 PM
06/02/18 02:15 PM
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Andamento Offline
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
...if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far.


But you might have it some day. Sometimes all it takes is time.

I remember a time that I couldn't sing on pitch. I'd gone to a one-room country school (yes, I'm dating myself now) through the end of third grade, and we never had any music instruction or singing or anything of the sort, that I recall.

When I attended a church school from fourth through ninth grades, where we sang hymns and other songs regularly, somewhere along the line, without anyone telling me, I could hear that I was singing out of tune with the class.

I don't remember how much time elapsed after that discovery, but eventually I became able to sing on pitch.

Time can change things. If you don't have a certain ability now, I believe there is always hope that it could be acquired in the future.



Last edited by Andamento; 06/02/18 02:19 PM.
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: Andamento] #2741586
06/02/18 02:58 PM
06/02/18 02:58 PM
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jdw Offline
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Originally Posted by Andamento
Originally Posted by The Monkeys
...if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far.


But you might have it some day. Sometimes all it takes is time.

I remember a time that I couldn't sing on pitch. I'd gone to a one-room country school (yes, I'm dating myself now) through the end of third grade, and we never had any music instruction or singing or anything of the sort, that I recall.

When I attended a church school from fourth through ninth grades, where we sang hymns and other songs regularly, somewhere along the line, without anyone telling me, I could hear that I was singing out of tune with the class.

I don't remember how much time elapsed after that discovery, but eventually I became able to sing on pitch.

Time can change things. If you don't have a certain ability now, I believe there is always hope that it could be acquired in the future.




My voice teacher used to say this too--that a lot of people are told they are "tone deaf" but that actually singing on pitch is a learned skill. She said anyone can be taught to sing on pitch, given basic ability to hear and speak. Don't know how much this has been studied, either for pitch or for rhythm.


1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:
Chopin, Waltz in E minor (op. posth.)
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
Mendelssohn, Op. 19 no. 2
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2741613
06/02/18 05:49 PM
06/02/18 05:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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Canada
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
but if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far.

Unless you teach music, and you have tried more than one approach with students, and with enough students, and for long enough, I don't think you can know this. Are you basing yourself on anything with this statement? We have a mother whose daughter told her some positive things that came out of her lessons, undoubtedly making her (mother) feel good, which is a nice message she wanted to pass on to teachers here - and it felt to me like you were throwing a wet blanket saying it's not so.

Specifically you wrote about acquiring inner pulse from teaching, and suggesting it can't be taught. As a student, there was a point where I was made aware of it, and I sought out inner pulse specifically. It took a few years, some trial and error and some wise teaching, and I think to a great degree I got it. That alone suggests that it can be taught, and so the young lady's observations may have been correct.

You used the comparison of height and basketball. Height is a physical attribute. My first music teacher had a beard. I did not expect to become male and grow a beard by having lessons. But I did expect to acquire skills. The basketball playing students will acquire skills if they have a good coach: perhaps learn teamwork, dexterity and coordination, timing, and maybe even some skills they can use in music. wink

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2741698
06/03/18 03:29 AM
06/03/18 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
Welcome back MaggieGirl!

Love to hear from you but I don't think the internal rhythm is something you learn. Music lessons can bring it out and make it stronger that I agree, but if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far.

If you can't see colors, at all, nothing is going to improve your relationship to colors.

But you are looking at difficulty with rhythm as an absolute.

I was talking yesterday with a classmate of mine from 50 years ago. He had problems with both rhythm and sight-singing. But his life has been about not only playing but teaching.

So I think you are making very wrong assumptions.


Piano Teacher
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2741936
06/04/18 03:25 AM
06/04/18 03:25 AM
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The Monkeys Offline
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Originally Posted by Gary D.

I was talking yesterday with a classmate of mine from 50 years ago. He had problems with both rhythm and sight-singing. But his life has been about not only playing but teaching.


Were you talking about a college classmate in a music major?

Originally Posted by Gary D.

But you are looking at difficulty with rhythm as an absolute.


I did not, and my do everyone exclude the last passage of my post in their quote?

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2741937
06/04/18 03:39 AM
06/04/18 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
I did not, and my do everyone exclude the last passage of my post in their quote?

You excluded my entire post. wink

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2742026
06/04/18 11:12 AM
06/04/18 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
Having said that, the capability is not binary, most people are in between somewhere poor and excellent, they are just normal, and music lesson can help, to some extent.


Are you referring to that passage above (^) -- from May 24 -- when you ask why everyone excludes the last passage of your post? Or something from your May 29 post?

Please clarify which passage you mean, and what you're saying about it. I'm not sure of your point.

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: keystring] #2742043
06/04/18 12:23 PM
06/04/18 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring

You excluded my entire post. wink

I have not got time to respond to your post.....

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: Andamento] #2742047
06/04/18 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Andamento

Please clarify which passage you mean, and what you're saying about it. I'm not sure of your point.


Yes, the passage you quoted. My whole point was to keep the forum alive, it was too quiet.
To all the adult learners, if you are keen enough to come to this corner of the world, you are musical inside and music lesson from a good teacher will definitely help.

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: MaggieGirl] #2742053
06/04/18 12:57 PM
06/04/18 12:57 PM
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The Monkeys - Can you please respond to my last post addressed to you, and the points in it? Whatever precedes the quoted section supports the last paragraph, or the last paragraph is a kind of conclusion to it, so discussing those things also go to the last paragraph.

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2742054
06/04/18 12:59 PM
06/04/18 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
Originally Posted by keystring

You excluded my entire post. wink

I have not got time to respond to your post.....

Of course you do. Just find some time. Take some pertinent points. smile

I believe you have given some misinformation. It will take a lot more time for people to disentangle themselves from these ideas if they adopt them.

Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: keystring] #2742143
06/04/18 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by The Monkeys
but if you don't have it, you don't have it, and your music lesson can only go so far.

Unless you teach music, and you have tried more than one approach with students, and with enough students, and for long enough, I don't think you can know this. Are you basing yourself on anything with this statement? We have a mother whose daughter told her some positive things that came out of her lessons, undoubtedly making her (mother) feel good, which is a nice message she wanted to pass on to teachers here - and it felt to me like you were throwing a wet blanket saying it's not so.

Specifically you wrote about acquiring inner pulse from teaching, and suggesting it can't be taught. As a student, there was a point where I was made aware of it, and I sought out inner pulse specifically. It took a few years, some trial and error and some wise teaching, and I think to a great degree I got it. That alone suggests that it can be taught, and so the young lady's observations may have been correct.

You used the comparison of height and basketball. Height is a physical attribute. My first music teacher had a beard. I did not expect to become male and grow a beard by having lessons. But I did expect to acquire skills. The basketball playing students will acquire skills if they have a good coach: perhaps learn teamwork, dexterity and coordination, timing, and maybe even some skills they can use in music. wink


Hi, Keystring, you are here long enough, and you should know that I have my utmost respect for all the music teachers.

We parents shall encourage our children to try different sports and try different forms of art, just like ourselves should continue to get out of our comfort zone to try new things.
If they failed, we help them to get back up and try again.
If they failed again, we help them to get back up and try again.
If they failed again, we help them to get back up and try again.
If they failed again, then it might be the time to help them to explore something else.

In the process, we help them to find out what they are good at, also help them to realize that they might not succeed on everything they do and help them to accept themselves as who they are.
If they tried, and tried, and tried, and realize they are not good at music and do not enjoy making music, they are still great human beings and we still love them. We can help them to explore drawing, crafting, writing and a million of other things.

Not necessarily as visible as height, different people, are born with different capabilities in different body attributes, like body coordination, agility, balance, speed, reaction time and back to the topic, the ability to manage complex rhythm. Piano playing is a physical activity, while many people that love music making can eventually learn something to entertain themselves, and perhaps others, there is a limit that each person can eventually reach.


Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: MaggieGirl] #2742172
06/04/18 09:36 PM
06/04/18 09:36 PM
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It is great to know that your child said that learning piano was beneficial to learn other stuffs. It is inspiring to know that your child's love for music lasts long after stopping lessons. I am a teacher hoping my students to develop genuine love for music, because music enriches our lives! You child had a wonderful teacher!


"Men can do all things if they will" ...Kenji...
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2742203
06/05/18 02:07 AM
06/05/18 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
there is a limit that each person can eventually reach.

I'm glad you made that observation.

My biggest battle right now is with this one parent who thinks her kids can get good at piano by just working a little harder at it. I tried to tell her that her kids are NOT exam material, or even piano material. They freeze when playing in front of people. I tried to get them to play more often in public recitals, but the parent avoids recitals like the plague. I tried to tell them that, without more performance opportunities, the kids will NEVER get good at playing in front of people.

These two kids are atop my "to fire" list, now that a bunch of transfer students are beginning to trickle in.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Thanks Piano Teachers! [Re: The Monkeys] #2750097
07/07/18 07:44 PM
07/07/18 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
But piano lessons does help the learning other instruments, a lot I would say.


Well, I think learning any instrument will help learning any other instrument.

I'm a former clarinettist and saxophonist. People who hear me playing piano for the first time are almost always surprised that I have only X experience. Clearly, the fact that I knew rythms, how to read music and how to practice efficiently was a huge plus when I started the piano. And every musician, that comes from any instrument, should know those!


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Mozart's K545, 1st and 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections

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