Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai CA98/CA78 v1.0.2 software update - now available

Referring to myself here:

Well, turns out that there actually is a way how you can edit the settings in an existing favorite!

Granted, it's an ugly and convoluted workaround, but it is better than nothing (until sometime? ever? dare-we-hope? Kawai maybe re-adds this functionality in a firmware update).

I've described it in detail in the Novus thread, in this post:

https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...wai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2735809

Thank you very much JoBert!!

Daniel

What I can tell is that the very limited possibility of the favorites makes no difference between pianist mode and sound mode. You can see different backgrounds on the favorite ICON between Pianist and Sound setting. It would be great if the stored settings could be edited or checked.

Also rewind or navigation of mp3 and wave files would be great.

Or full german keyboard.

Would I buy it again:

From keyboard, sound, soundboard effect (everything that matters whilst playing) it is by far the best Piano on the market for me. Buy again? ROFL! It is a MUST HAVE!!!!! Never ever I played one of my CA's (93,95,97) as much in the first 4 months.

Alexander

Buy again? 😂😂👌

To the possibility to edit favorites: Please be aware that changing position to place 1 to make it "startup setting" does not work. Only factory reset or deleting all favorites work.

Galuwen

Fortunately, it does work without a reset!

The information that you need a factory reset (or need to delete all favorites) is old information from an older post that I wrote. It was later pointed out by Kawai James that you actually don't need a reset, i.e. you can reorder the favorites and put a new favorite into first place, and still have this new favorite work correctly as a startup favorite. The thing is, you have to do this with a specific sequence of steps (which is also used in the "edit favorites" procedure I linked above) or it won't work. That sequence is as follows:

On the favorites screen:

• Tap burger menu icon
• Switch Startup With Favorite OFF
• Tap Edit Favorite
• Reorder and put desired new favorite in first place
• Tap "<" in top left
• Close with "X" at bottom
• Make sure the new first favorite is the selected one (this is important!)
• Tap burger menu icon again
• Switch Startup with Favorite ON

And since the reordering works with this sequence, the "procedure" for favorite editing (as linked above) also works, and afterwards you can still properly restore your desired startup favorite without the need for a reset.

Since you seem to buy every new model (where do you find the money?), in a couple of years it will be fixed.
Other people might be living with it for the rest of their lives...

To be honest I trade them back and buy a new one :-).

I got an anser from Kawai Europe yesterday, 5 months after contacting them the first time (and several times inbetween).

About the crash when plugging headphones in
Kawai acknowledges the problem and says it is a hardware problem on some CA98. They now have a solution and ask me to contact my dealer to arrange a "repair".

About the GUI
Kawai do as if they were not aware of a problem and ask me what does not work correctly (but I have been trying several times in the last 5 months to explain it to them).

My impression is that they try hard to kill the usability question by determining that the DP reacts exactly as described in the manual (which it might be), and this is perfectly OK for them.

And that they try to ignore the fact that the ergonomy of the GUI of the CA78/CA98/NV10 ist terrible, that the favorites function as implemented and documented almost useless, and that they probably would sell more of their high-end DPs if they improved the GUI a very little bit.

I can't understand that this company is widely considered to have an excellent service. It might be true for adressing hardware issues, but for software, they are on the level of Microsoft 30 years ago.

Patrick

I am a recent newcomer to the CA98 model - having only recently changed (upgraded ????) from a Kawai CS-10 Digital Piano.

As a Pianist and an Electronics Engineer, there are various aspects of this model that I am really less than happy about
(I currently have another Thread on this Forum regarding one of the areas of concern on this model).

Regarding the GUI interface, I can say that although it does feature more up to date technology - using a Touch Screen (instead of old fashioned buttons !!), the operation of it for a Pianist is FLAWED IN MANY WAYS.

Now as I understand it, the display itself is a product designed and manufactured by Onkyo of Japan. It is actually a Digital Music Player and based around the Android Operating System.

Now the BIG question is: How much knowledge does Kawai actually have about this Player and programming it, or are they reliant on Onkyo to design/Debug the software for them ???????????

Now of course, Onkyo do not make Pianos and so maybe dont have a full undestanding of how the Softare shuld have been implimented in the first place (I guess the overal concept was discussed between the collaboration of Kawai and Onkyo). But for Kawai, maybe this was a bit of leap in the dark for them, moving away from switches and buttons, to a Touch Sceen device which needs totally different skill sets to implement (Mobile Phone Manufacturers of course have this pretty much licked these days).

And what happens when you dont get things right ??

Well from my own point of view, I really dont even want to see a Display at all on my Piano - I just want to play some nice music. But when I do need it, it should be bug-free and totally intuitive.
And yes of course, it should have had for example, a completely "Open Registration" for changing and storing ANY variable parameters, and adding a beastly FAVORITES screen as a substitute simply is not acceptable.

But on the other hand, I would like to aplaud Kawai as well for taking the Digital Piano forward in evolution - using more modern sampling techniques and Technologies.

However, it is possible that pressures to get this model released to market, that there are MANY areas of this design that should have been looked into first, and to make the necessary improvements and changes to the design BEFORE it was released.

It is my own personal belief that the CA98 piano "COULD HAVE BEEN" so much better.

At the end of the day this is not a "CHEAP and CHEARFUL" Piano, and not to forget, the owners of the NV-10 Novus model - which seems to have many of the same issues (and on a piano costing as much as a small car).

So, come on KAWAI - we love your products but YOU HAVE TO LISTEN AND IMPROVE ...........................

You have to be realistic: They can't, the maybe would want to and as it is obvious now from PAFs experience they don't will.

KAWAI James is silent on this point since day one.

So to be realistic: 😫 only possibility is to return the piano(s) as some are doing in the moment here in Germany.

Or live with a GUI w/o proper localisation, with an WAV /MP3 player where you not even can rewind or navigate.

No editing or reading out adjusted values.

No navigation in menus w/o changing values by error,...

For me I will stick with my CA98 even with the fact that I can only play it with external Amplifier and high end speakers behind me and that I have to turn it off before plugging in headphones.

Wrap some gaffer tape around it and go on as we say in Germany :-).

And as soon as a new model (maybe with the good old cheek block button display) will be released hopefully I have saved enough money until then and - as we also say in Germany - take the money in hand if you want quality.

Too drastic? To harsh? Now be realistic too....You won't find a better sounding and working DP in this (cheap) class compared with let's say Yam..haha. And to say it clear: Don't think you won't have problems with other manufacturers 2.

Galuwen.

We've so far only had silence from Kawai regarding the UI problems in the CA78/98/NV10 generation and what one reads here about the replies from Kawai Europe regarding these problems gives me the impression that this too is silence - only with more words.

My guess is that Kawai Europe either is not allowed to say anything, or they are just as out-of-the-loop regarding the development and plans for the UI (if any) as we are, so they are forced to come out with platitudes and standard phrases when confronted with an insistent customer who asks for a reply.

From what I've seen of the UI (in my NV10), I'm convinced that this software is, like so many other software products world wide, the lamentable result of one of these cases, where an uninformed management made the cardinal mistake that you can do in a software project: Namely that of imposing a fixed deadline by fiat. (Contrary to all the accumulated knowledge that tells us over and over again, that this is not possible. There have been books written about this as far back as in the 80s, but it still happens far too often.)

The CA78/98/NV10 UI has all the signs of such a project:

• Illogical design choices (that could have been fixed/redesigned with more time)
• Cut corners (features left out or "forgotten" that were available in a previous version)
• Not enough debugging (and that is quite obvious, because you don't have to dig deep to find the bugs, any kind of even a half assed testing and debugging cycle should have caught many of them)

All these are hallmarks of a software project with an fixed deadline that was decreed by fiat by upper management, without any regards to how the project was going, or what its current state was.

The question now is: Will Kawai own up to this and how will they handle this?

Right now, even despite this disastrous train wreck of a software release, Kawai still has a lot of good will and fans of their pianos. At least here on the forum, but I expect also elsewhere. The CA78/98 and also the NV10 are still being recommended to people asking for advice, even by forum members who are fully aware of these problems.

Imagine how, based on this still existing good will, Kawai's reputation could soar if, in a few months or so, they come out with a software version 2.0 that fixes these problems!

Or on the other hand, how it could crash and burn, if they continued with their wall of silence and simply let the buyers of the current CA78/98/NV10 generation hang out to dry, with all fixes only coming to the next generation (if any - who knows, if they really are in denial they might not even fix these problems in the next generation. Now that would be a catastrophe for their reputation!).

So, what's it gonna be, Kawai?

I doubt if it was a fixed deadline that is the problem, but the original poor design before they tacked the GUI on it. Can't see it being fixed without a complete rewrite and by a different programmer/systems analyst. I rather suspect that original person(s) had little experience.

This CA78, 98 release has every sign of rushing an unfinished product out the door. I even joked about this right on the announcement thread here ... To me, this pianist mode thingy was the telltale. The missing features, the inconsistencies was obvious. Yet some people were blinded by the new shiny objects and chose to believe otherwise as special. Now the excitements finally worn out. Some defend the annoyances as acceptable to justify their purchases. Others get vocal and demand a 2.0 software release. It will be nice if Kawai actually provides a "service pack" but don't count on it. More likely CA79, 99 will be the fix but I like to be surprised.

I think the ones laughing here are Yamaha, Roland & Co. who will have their sales pitch ready.

I know Kawai James won't say a word about this, I only hope he forwards all feedback from this Forum to someone with an open mind.
There are 100s of people providing feedback, invaluable feedback which gets ignored.

At some points these reviews will start biting the sales (and don't forget all the positive missed).

And, but this might sound like a heresy to Kawai who told me they will not publish the MIDI SysEx to control the settings: put the source code on github and most of your bugs will get fixed in no time, for free (btw, by people who can't even run the app).

Does anyone know if there is any way to lower the volume of a particular key; I have CA78, the D5 and #D5 are louder than others. They 'jump out' at you when playing a delicate piece and tend to put you of a bit.

I have played around with the GUI a bit, but can't seem to find an option to adjust individual notes.

There should be. Look at
http://www.kawaius.com/digital/CA/OM/CA98_CA78_EN_20170908_R100.pdf
Page 121

Ahh Thanks for that I should have looked more carefully.

In my opinion and according to my modest software development experience, the worst problem (saving the settings, especially the awful favorites) cannot be difficult to solve and this could be done at very little cost. Even the worst spaghetti-like code can be patched and I don't think that it needs more than a patch to solve my problem with it.

Regarding other things like swiching the screen completely off or crashing when inserting headphones or USB Sticks, I see more potential problems, especially if the hardware has not been designed accordingly. And we have some reasons to think that the hardware of the GUI hast some shortcomings. But that doesn't mean the it can not or should not be fixed!

I'm very sad about the attitude of Kawai. I don't understand it from a technical point of view and even less from a commercial point of view, If Kawai was interested in selling more of they most expensive DP and saving their reputation, it think they could:

• at the minimum, fix the GUI code to make it less bad
• at the maximum, put the GUI source code in the public domain and publish the specification of the interface to the sound engine. Every piano-playing geek would then buy these DP and we would get the best GUI in the DP world in a few weeks time. Of course, Kawai can't do it if their code is so badly written they are ashamed about it.

Well I have perhaps a little more experience and I think that you will find that if the design is faulty patching can make it worse by introducing unforeseen errors. Think MSDOS and Windows.

Hi! You can indeed regulate the volume and other parameters of each individual key as pointed out already. However, I hear no volume difference between those particular two keys and the neighboring keys on pianist mode and with the pianos in sound mode. I suggest you
check the actual note-on velocity of those keys to rule out any sensor-related issue. You can check the note-on velocity by connecting the CA78 via Bluetooth or USB to an iOS/Android device (free MIDI Wrench app on iOS) or to a PC (download MIDIOX or MIDI Monitor).