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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2737328
05/17/18 03:49 AM
05/17/18 03:49 AM
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If it doesn't work with mainstage or garage band (or logic?), you can always download Reaper for Mac as a free functioning demo here:

https://www.reaper.fm/download.php

...and record on that.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: toddy] #2737342
05/17/18 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by toddy
If it doesn't work with mainstage or garage band (or logic?), you can always download Reaper for Mac as a free functioning demo here:

https://www.reaper.fm/download.php

...and record on that.

Yes, there was a little problem with stability in Reaper earlier, but with new update 1.0.582 it works excellent

Last edited by slobajudge; 05/17/18 04:42 AM.
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: David B] #2737418
05/17/18 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
Some time ago I purchased MainStage, but never used it. I'm thinking that I might be able to run the VSL CFX as a AU plugin with MainStage and and record with it also. Therefore, I don't have to buy a new program to record. I'm waiting to hear back from Paul to confirm his CFX will work with MainStage. I will get the VSL CFX if it does.

God Bless,
David



Are you talking about recording audio or midi? If the latter, and it's just the piano (i.e. not combined with other VSTs), then Savihost, which is entirely free and very easy to use, will let you do that. If it's recording midi, then it becomes a fair bit more complex with free software, but it's still possible.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: karvala] #2737468
05/17/18 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by karvala
Originally Posted by David B
Some time ago I purchased MainStage, but never used it. I'm thinking that I might be able to run the VSL CFX as a AU plugin with MainStage and and record with it also. Therefore, I don't have to buy a new program to record. I'm waiting to hear back from Paul to confirm his CFX will work with MainStage. I will get the VSL CFX if it does.

God Bless,
David



Are you talking about recording audio or midi? If the latter, and it's just the piano (i.e. not combined with other VSTs), then Savihost, which is entirely free and very easy to use, will let you do that. If it's recording midi, then it becomes a fair bit more complex with free software, but it's still possible.


I'm too ignorant to really even know the difference. I just want to record what I'm playing, insert it into a video (via iMovie) and upload it to youtube. Grangeband meets all my needs until now. However, I believe I can record with MainStage. MainStage give me the option to record in different formants (wav, aiff, etc.) I wish VSL worked in Grageband. That would make thinks a lot easier for me. However, I'm still going to get it because the demos sound really good to me. Thanks for the help.

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-35 Completed
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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2737469
05/17/18 02:52 PM
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I just installed the new version of Synchron Pianos (1.0.582) and the first bullet of the changelog says:

Added: Per-note tuning parameters (Edit View) thumb

I guess it's possible to input the data for historical tunings or modern tunings different from equal now. This is great!
There is no indication of the meaning of the number, but from a quick testing it seems to indicate cents (cent = one hundredth of a semitone in the equal tempered tuning).

Last edited by Erard; 05/17/18 02:53 PM.

Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX & Steinway D - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
PC -> Sonarworks Reference 4 -> RME Babyface Pro -> Schiit Yggdrasil + Jotunheim -> Sennheiser HD650 & HD800
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2737474
05/17/18 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by David B

I wish VSL worked in Grageband. That would make thinks a lot easier for me.


David, am I missing something?

Originally Posted by dbudde

I have no problem running Synchron CFX in GarageBand.


Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX & Steinway D - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
PC -> Sonarworks Reference 4 -> RME Babyface Pro -> Schiit Yggdrasil + Jotunheim -> Sennheiser HD650 & HD800
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: Erard] #2737483
05/17/18 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Erard
Originally Posted by David B

I wish VSL worked in Grageband. That would make thinks a lot easier for me.


David, am I missing something?

Originally Posted by dbudde

I have no problem running Synchron CFX in GarageBand.


I'm just going by what Paul said about it. He said his product would not work in Garageband. If it does, fantastic!

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-35 Completed
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2737497
05/17/18 04:02 PM
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Karvala and Erard what do you think about the changelog in the new version of Synchron Pianos (1.0.582) ?, I'm considering upgrade to full version..but I need another SSD to do this!!

Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: sorrownightingale] #2737514
05/17/18 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
Karvala and Erard what do you think about the changelog in the new version of Synchron Pianos (1.0.582) ?, I'm considering upgrade to full version..but I need another SSD to do this!!

well - it depends on how you look at it, I guess!
You could say they should have fixed all the bugs before going live - or you could just accept it and enjoy the ride, since the piano plays ok and the problems left are not a show stopper.
I for one I'm happy they finally introduced a way to tune note by note - maybe also because of the tight back and forth they've had with customers - who knows.
I have the full version, but I haven't used much the new mics - just the ones from the standard library.


Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX & Steinway D - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
PC -> Sonarworks Reference 4 -> RME Babyface Pro -> Schiit Yggdrasil + Jotunheim -> Sennheiser HD650 & HD800
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: sorrownightingale] #2737620
05/18/18 08:26 AM
05/18/18 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
Karvala and Erard what do you think about the changelog in the new version of Synchron Pianos (1.0.582) ?, I'm considering upgrade to full version..but I need another SSD to do this!!


They have fixed some things in 1.0.582, most notably the sustain pedal sample cutoff problem that was quite significant, but in both this version and the previous version that have also been increasing/lengthening the room resonance in the release samples, which has the unfortunate effect of decreasing playability. It's bad enough that I've reverted to 1.0.464, in spite of some of the other performance issues. I'm hoping they'll address that, but we'll see.

In terms of the full version, I'd say it's borderline. I definitely prefer Close2 to Close1 as the close mic, even though it's slightly less close, because it has significantly fewer/less prominent flaws. I'm ambivalent about Mid1 and Mid2; they're quite similar to each other. The three extra ambient mics (surround, high, high-surround) are nice and can add an exquisite room resonance that it is a step up from Main/Main-C mics, but they are even more distant and for an instrument that's already drowning in reverb and resonance their usefulness is quite limited. Essentially, they can be used as an alternative type of reverb and probably not much else unless you're into a VERY ambient sound. Worth it for the money? Debatable.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: karvala] #2737853
05/19/18 04:06 AM
05/19/18 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by karvala

They have fixed some things in 1.0.582, most notably the sustain pedal sample cutoff problem that was quite significant, but in both this version and the previous version that have also been increasing/lengthening the room resonance in the release samples, which has the unfortunate effect of decreasing playability. It's bad enough that I've reverted to 1.0.464, in spite of some of the other performance issues. I'm hoping they'll address that, but we'll see.

It's true that the new long reverb on the release samples smudge the sound somewhat, but if there is one thing I didn't like in the old version was the weird clipping of the release samples. Staccato playing didn't sound right at all, especially in the middle of the keyboard. Now staccato sounds natural, in the sense that there is no unreal electronic clipping, but in legato playing there is too much interaction between the notes , especially if you use Mid1 or Mid2.
I can see how they felt this was an improvement, but to me both versions are not there yet.
I read your post over at VSL, and I tend to agree - but unfortunately going back to the old version is not a solution in my experience. I think they should cut the reverb at the end, but in a more natural way than the artificial clipping used in 1.0.464.

Last edited by Erard; 05/19/18 04:14 AM.

Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX & Steinway D - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
PC -> Sonarworks Reference 4 -> RME Babyface Pro -> Schiit Yggdrasil + Jotunheim -> Sennheiser HD650 & HD800
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2738214
05/20/18 11:19 AM
05/20/18 11:19 AM
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I certainly agree that there's a lot of room for improvement in the way they handle the release samples in general. 1.0.464 is the least available at the moment, but I absolutely agree it's still far from ideal. Hopefully they'll implement a properly done release sample control, and then it will be problem solved.

Last edited by karvala; 05/20/18 11:19 AM.

Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: karvala] #2738219
05/20/18 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by karvala
Hopefully they'll implement a properly done release sample control, and then it will be problem solved.


I read your post at the VSL forum regarding this subject and I listened to your example clip. I can also tell the difference between the longer release sample in the comparative example you gave.

My question is: what is a "release sample" and how is it different from other samples?

I still plan on purchasing the standard version this week when I have access to faster internet at work. I just hope my old MacBook air Mid 2012, 2 GHz i7, 8 GB ram, SSD, can run the program.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 05/20/18 11:56 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-35 Completed
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: David B] #2738223
05/20/18 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
My question is: what is a "release sample" and how is it different from other samples?


When you let go of a piano key (with no pedalling involved) the damper engages again and stops the strings vibrating. This phase sound different depending on how quickly you release the key - the sound of the felt stifling the sound of the vibrating strings will have different qualities. These are recorded as short, single cycle samples in a set called 'release samples' and they they're triggered when the key returns to its rest position. (Edit: to be precise, they're triggered just before the key returns to its rest position)

Last edited by toddy; 05/20/18 12:14 PM.

Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2738226
05/20/18 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by toddy
When you let go of a piano key (with no pedalling involved) ...


Cool! Thanks.

Someone mentioned on the VSL forum that they think it's "transient." They referred to transient as "the opposite" of release sample. Any idea what transient means?

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 05/20/18 12:30 PM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-35 Completed
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2738229
05/20/18 12:48 PM
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Transient is a stage of a sound (especially a musical note type of sound) where a rapid change takes place - the tonguing sound of a flute or the pluck of a guitar would be complex examples) and they are vital in identifying a sound. They are not necessarily at the front of the musical note but that's where the most important determining transients are. And when they are at the begining of the note, the transient is called attack (or is a determining characteristic of the attack).

I'd say that the release characteristics of a piano note (that is, release samples) are also transients.

PS, God bless you too!

Last edited by toddy; 05/20/18 12:54 PM.

Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2738232
05/20/18 01:00 PM
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On a synthesiser, a note is broken down into four (or sometimes more) parts: attack, decay, sustain, release, known as ADSR. Since a piano does not have the ability to sustain (maintain a note at the same volume level), nor to be changed in any way once the key has been struck, there are only three stages in a piano note: attack, decay and release.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2738235
05/20/18 01:10 PM
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@Toddy

Very informative. Thank you!

Last edited by David B; 05/20/18 01:11 PM.

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Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-35 Completed
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2738353
05/21/18 07:08 AM
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Yes, no sustain on a piano, but the decay has two phases : https://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/weinreic/motion.html


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2738375
05/21/18 10:44 AM
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Alternative definition of transients follows. Sound design software I use separates recordings into three buckets; the engineers note that the boundaries among the three buckets is not rigid:

- deterministic events or stable sinusoidal components of the sound,

- transient events or brief noisy bursts of energy, and the

- remaining stochastic background or din.

http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/taps_icmc2006.pdf

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