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Hailun Distribution Channel #2736967
05/15/18 09:25 PM
05/15/18 09:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
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Retsacnal Online content OP

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Has the Hailun distribution channel changed?

I haven't been on Craigslist in a while, but--inspired by another thread--I was just poking around there and came across the following post that's advertising Hailuns at "factory direct" prices:

HAILUN Pianos at Factory Direct Prices

Hailuns have a reputation for being a good value, but cutting out the middleman could possibly result in a really sweet deal.




if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
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Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2736973
05/15/18 09:48 PM
05/15/18 09:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 67
USA
J
jarobi Offline
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USA
I think Hailun is simply selling through piano techs in areas where there is no traditional piano store. I assume they'll still have to get the pianos from a distributor and make a profit from the sale, so "factory direct" pricing may be a bit of hyperbole. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTLirGzs1jo


Hailun HG-178, Yamaha MX-88, Yamaha P-115, Roli Rise 49, Scarlett 2i4, KRK Rokit 5's, JBL LSR 308's, Keyscape
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737070
05/16/18 07:56 AM
05/16/18 07:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,885
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Does "factory direct" really mean anything? Why would any manufacturer of anything supply pianos to random people to sell and undercut its authorized dealers? Indeed, why would any manufacturer sell anything in a way--direct or not--that undercuts its authorized dealers?

Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737079
05/16/18 08:25 AM
05/16/18 08:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 405
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GC13 Online content
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My RPT is our area's rep for Mason-Hamlin. I couldn't tell you how far it is to the closest M&H dealer, and I live in one of the largest cities in the US. We only have 2 full-scale piano showrooms in the metro; 1-Steinway and another that is authorized for about 10 other brands, but with very limited in-store selection for each of them. He only has 3 or 4 M&H pianos in stock most of the time in his shop.

One advantage to this approach is the fact that RPT's are out servicing pianos so there get to know their clients tastes and needs. That makes them a good resource for advice about replacing a piano. Then if they can make a sale and take the old instrument in on trade, they'd be able to refurbish the old instrument and make another sale. This could be a great 2nd stream of income for RPT's, and it could be very helpful for piano buyers' in more rural areas. My wife and I were just talking this week about how spoiled we are now living in a major metropolitan area. Just about everything we need is within a 15-20 minute drive. We've never lived in a remote small town, but we used to live in a much smaller city, with pretty limited shopping options. The basics were covered, but beyond that it was an hours drive a best to really have options.

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Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: GC13] #2737110
05/16/18 10:30 AM
05/16/18 10:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 91
Chiltern Hills, England.
G
gwing Offline
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May I ask what an RPT is?

Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737111
05/16/18 10:34 AM
05/16/18 10:34 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 91
Chicago
J
John305 Offline
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Chicago
RPT = registered piano technician.


Itโ€™s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: John305] #2737232
05/16/18 05:33 PM
05/16/18 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
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Jack Knuckle Offline
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I followed the link on the Craigslist ad out of curiosity (I'm in another continent so not really an option for me however tempting the prices). The ad takes you to another website, which explains,

"As Virginiaโ€™s only authorized HAILUN piano dealer, The Optimal Piano, owned by Steinway trained Master Piano Technician Dan Cammarata, wants to spread the word about this wonderful hand crafted instrument. Take the time today to make an appointment to come play a HAILUN piano in my shop near Smith Mountain Lake. "

That doesn't exactly strike me as being "factory direct"!

Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737293
05/16/18 10:33 PM
05/16/18 10:33 PM
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Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Hailun whoslesale prices have gone up by over 30% in last few years.
This is more than any other Chinese made piano I know.
While being a very good piano, not sure if they still represent very good value.
Buyers to judge these things.
Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737337
05/17/18 04:11 AM
05/17/18 04:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 129
Seattle
Campanella12 Offline
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Hi Norbert,

would you please specify your statement that "...Hailun wholesale prices have gone up by over 30% in last few years"? What time frame are you referring to? Which market (USA, Canada, China, Europe)? Thanks.

Note: The site does not allow me to update my signature line.


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Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: John305] #2737349
05/17/18 05:55 AM
05/17/18 05:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 91
Chiltern Hills, England.
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gwing Offline
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Originally Posted by John305
RPT = registered piano technician.


Thanks John. Not a term we tend to use over here.

Rgds,
Rob.

Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737404
05/17/18 10:55 AM
05/17/18 10:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,668
Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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When you see a piano technician stating they are "Steinway trained", one should ascertain what they mean by this. Some times the term is used very liberally and connotes more fraud than feat.

RPT is the term fully franchised members of the Piano Technicians Guild earn by passing all the tests and belonging to PTG. Most members are in the USA and Canada but we do have some from all over the world.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Campanella12] #2737486
05/17/18 03:20 PM
05/17/18 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,496
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Retsacnal Online content OP

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Originally Posted by Campanella12
Note: The site does not allow me to update my signature line.


Conspiracy? shocked wow

I suspect that if you click on the Edit Profile link, and scroll down to the signature box, that you'll be able to edit it like the rest of us. thumb


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Rank Piano Amateur] #2737489
05/17/18 03:27 PM
05/17/18 03:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,496
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Retsacnal Online content OP

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Originally Posted by Rank Piano Amateur
Does "factory direct" really mean anything? Why would any manufacturer of anything supply pianos to random people to sell and undercut its authorized dealers? Indeed, why would any manufacturer sell anything in a way--direct or not--that undercuts its authorized dealers?

Normally I would have chalked this off to hyperbole, marketing speak, etc, but if I'm not mistaken this distributor recently lost one of his other lines, so I thought perhaps he'd lost this one too, and that there might be some truth to the "factory direct" claim, since that's now how sellers of the other brand are acquiring them. Hence my question.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737494
05/17/18 03:57 PM
05/17/18 03:57 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,503
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
so I thought perhaps he'd lost this one too


That is incorrect. Hailun has had the same North American distributor for several years, and a good-sized dealer network in the US.


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Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2737499
05/17/18 04:09 PM
05/17/18 04:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 129
Seattle
Campanella12 Offline
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Seattle
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT


RPT is the term fully franchised members of the Piano Technicians Guild earn by passing all the tests and belonging to PTG. Most members are in the USA and Canada but we do have some from all over the world.




Hailun has started to prepare all of its first senior production technicians at the factory to get certified as Registered Piano Technicians. In the fall of last year, our head voicer at the Hailun factory, flew to the US to take the exams and passed with flying colors. At this moment five other piano factory technicians are preparing for the exam. We recommend our customers to only use Registered Piano Technicians for service and have seen a definitive difference between what are often good intentioned but unqualified technicians and professionals that continue to sharpen their piano technician skills and educate themselves.


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Office: 509-946-8078
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737500
05/17/18 04:17 PM
05/17/18 04:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 129
Seattle
Campanella12 Offline
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by Campanella12
Note: The site does not allow me to update my signature line.




I suspect that if you click on the Edit Profile link, and scroll down to the signature box, that you'll be able to edit it like the rest of us. thumb


Retsacnal, thanks.

I make the change and push the save button- but it does not save it.


______________________________________________________

www.petrof.com - www.hailun-pianos.com

Office: 509-946-8078
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Campanella12] #2737508
05/17/18 05:04 PM
05/17/18 05:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,496
๐ŸŽน
Retsacnal Online content OP

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Online Content OP

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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,496
๐ŸŽน
Originally Posted by Campanella12
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by Campanella12
Note: The site does not allow me to update my signature line.




I suspect that if you click on the Edit Profile link, and scroll down to the signature box, that you'll be able to edit it like the rest of us. thumb


Retsacnal, thanks.

I make the change and push the save button- but it does not save it.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Campanella12] #2737513
05/17/18 05:32 PM
05/17/18 05:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,496
๐ŸŽน
Retsacnal Online content OP

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Online Content OP

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Joined: Oct 2012
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Originally Posted by Campanella12
would you please specify your statement that "...Hailun wholesale prices have gone up by over 30% in last few years"? What time frame are you referring to? Which market (USA, Canada, China, Europe)? Thanks.


Steve Cohen posted in this thread that SMP for Hailun's 218 was $28,684 in 2011. The SMP today is $38,812, which represents an increase of 35.3% in seven years. In Fine's methodology, SMP is simply a multiple of cost, so we can assume that wholesale went up by the same rate. That sounds pretty darn close to "up by over 30% in last few years."

If you're going to post implications that someone else's assertions are incorrect, then you should be prepared to post the "truth," so please let us know how the wholesale prices have increased in those four markets in the last few years Thanks.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Campanella12] #2737521
05/17/18 06:15 PM
05/17/18 06:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,496
๐ŸŽน
Retsacnal Online content OP

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Online Content OP

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015

Joined: Oct 2012
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๐ŸŽน
Originally Posted by Campanella12
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by Campanella12
Note: The site does not allow me to update my signature line.




I suspect that if you click on the Edit Profile link, and scroll down to the signature box, that you'll be able to edit it like the rest of us. thumb


Retsacnal, thanks.

I make the change and push the save button- but it does not save it.


Well, the software engineer in me got my conscience to working.

Since your signature has three URLs in it, I wondered if the submit and/or DB commit might choke, throw an exception or otherwise fail and result in no changes. But I changed my signature to match yours, and, as you can see below, I could change it back.
* queues Twilight Zone theme music... *

btw, be sure you're pressing the "Save Changes" button at the bottom of the page, and not just the "Preview Changes" button below the signature.

Anyway, maybe one of the moderators can change it for you.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737527
05/17/18 06:55 PM
05/17/18 06:55 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 23,523
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by Campanella12
would you please specify your statement that "...Hailun wholesale prices have gone up by over 30% in last few years"? What time frame are you referring to? Which market (USA, Canada, China, Europe)? Thanks.


Steve Cohen posted in this thread that SMP for Hailun's 218 was $28,684 in 2011. The SMP today is $38,812, which represents an increase of 35.3% in seven years. In Fine's methodology, SMP is simply a multiple of cost, so we can assume that wholesale went up by the same rate. That sounds pretty darn close to "up by over 30% in last few years."
But most people wouldn't think of seven years as a few years.

Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737532
05/17/18 07:16 PM
05/17/18 07:16 PM
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New York City
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(Continued from my last post since the edit function seems to be not working correctly.)The SMP increase in the last 4 years(Spring 2014 to Spring 2018 was around 13% for the 5'10" model and around 6% for the model 218.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/17/18 07:17 PM.
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737533
05/17/18 07:19 PM
05/17/18 07:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Georgia, USA
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
(Continued from my last post since the edit function seems to be not working correctly.)

I noticed the edit feature not working earlier this morning too. I thought maybe it was just me... but maybe not.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Rickster] #2737538
05/17/18 08:02 PM
05/17/18 08:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 483
In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
(Continued from my last post since the edit function seems to be not working correctly.)

I noticed the edit feature not working earlier this morning too. I thought maybe it was just me... but maybe not.

Rick


The edit feature has been missing for me for about 3 days now.

Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: NobleHouse] #2737540
05/17/18 08:06 PM
05/17/18 08:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 483
In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
(Continued from my last post since the edit function seems to be not working correctly.)

I noticed the edit feature not working earlier this morning too. I thought maybe it was just me... but maybe not.

Rick


The edit feature has been missing for me for about 3 days now.


Now it is back.

Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737554
05/17/18 11:18 PM
05/17/18 11:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,496
๐ŸŽน
Retsacnal Online content OP

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I think the edit option times out pretty quickly. I've tried to edit a few times and it seemed to be gone in about ten minutes or so after posting. Perhaps faster, but I was only looking a few minutes later.

edited. button still there...

Last edited by Retsacnal; 05/17/18 11:19 PM. Reason: to test button

if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: pianoloverus] #2737557
05/17/18 11:44 PM
05/17/18 11:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,496
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Retsacnal Online content OP

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus

(Continued from my last post since the edit function seems to be not working correctly.)The SMP increase in the last 4 years(Spring 2014 to Spring 2018 was around 13% for the 5'10" model and around 6% for the model 218.

I agree that seven is a bit of a stretch for a "few." I generally think of it as about five (+/-), but it's not precisely defined.

Anyway, interesting numbers. I couldn't find historical SMPs on the site, so I googled for something here and found Steve's comment. But if the 218 increased only 6% in the last four years, that means it rose roughly 29% in the previous four years (35 - 6). Obviously, the increases aren't linear. There could have been a huge increase in the fifth year back. Any data older than four years?


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737575
05/18/18 01:53 AM
05/18/18 01:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,362
Surrey, B.C.
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Quote
Obviously, the increases aren't linear. There could have been a huge increase in the fifth year back. Any data older than four years?



Last edited by Norbert; 05/18/18 02:00 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Retsacnal] #2737594
05/18/18 05:37 AM
05/18/18 05:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 129
Seattle
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Hailun whoslesale prices have gone up by over 30% in last few years.
This is more than any other Chinese made piano I know.
While being a very good piano, not sure if they still represent very good value.
Buyers to judge these things.
Norbert



The comment by Norbert seemed of interest not due his alluding to an (undocumented) "30% price increase". Probably most piano merchants would want to create the perception that a competitive brand they do not carry is so "overpriced" and that the "other" brand is not worth considering. Some merchants post accordingly on this or other forums and then often confirm each others postings and try to create a public perception that fits their agenda.

However, what caught my attention was Norbert's conclusion that, in this particular case, Hailun is or is not "very good value". Just use a few days ago I had two extensive conversations on that topic. One was with a Hailun merchant in the Southwest who asserted that Hailun was "currently the best value in the market". A lengthy exchange ensued to what the criteria for that assessment would be and if Hailun would want to be perceived that way.

So when Norbert, who I know as thoughtful, ethical man, who is always open for a good discussion, posted, I was curious to the facts on his two assertions on what "...good value" constitutes and the following questions came to mind:

- What are a "few years"? Is it 2-3, 3-6, 6-10?

- What sources did Norbert go to see and compare prices and come up with 30%? (We give our confidential pricelist every year to Mr. Larry Fine who is very trustworthy in these matters.)

- What are the other Chinese piano brands that he asserts have not increased their prices by "30% in the last few years"? And did he get their prices from the same source?

- What are the other Non-Chinese brands and how did their prices increase in the same "few years"?

- What features or factors make "very good piano value"? Are there aspects that are not subjective or facts that could constitute a basis for such an assessment?

- For who would Hailun be or not be a good value? Is there customer groups for which Hailun would not qualify as a great value? Who would be the ones that would assess Hailun as 'good value". Is Hailun not "very good value" (as per Norbert) or is it "the best value in there market currently" ?


Admittedly, I was hoping that Norbert would be willing to explain his statement and provide a better view of how he arrived at his conclusions, or lay open the source of his data or information, which might shed more light how he or others might arrive at the conclusion.

However, I am not posting to corner Norbert and Retsacnal is right that a general discussion might be of interest if it is based on the old adage: "In God we trust. All others must bring data."


______________________________________________________

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Office: 509-946-8078
Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Campanella12] #2737602
05/18/18 07:00 AM
05/18/18 07:00 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 23,523
New York City
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Originally Posted by Campanella12
The comment by Norbert seemed of interest not due his alluding to an (undocumented) "30% price increase". Probably most piano merchants would want to create the perception that a competitive brand they do not carry is so "overpriced" and that the "other" brand is not worth considering. Some merchants post accordingly on this or other forums and then often confirm each others postings and try to create a public perception that fits their agenda.
Yes.

Re: Hailun Distribution Channel [Re: Campanella12] #2737610
05/18/18 07:35 AM
05/18/18 07:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 91
Chiltern Hills, England.
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gwing  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 91
Chiltern Hills, England.
Originally Posted by Campanella12

"In God we trust. All others must bring data."


That's a pretty good principle. However it would be a pretty barren forum here if every poster had to consider and find evidence and irrefutable statistics before posting anything. Sometimes, maybe even usually, we just work on personal perceptions and common sense (until someone comes along and suggests some contrary evidence).

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