Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
134 registered members (anotherscott, Beowulf, 36251, ASilotiCoffee, Amedeus, ando, 90125, barbaram, 32 invisible), 1,288 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2738280
05/20/18 04:28 PM
05/20/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 938
Ohio
M
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member
MikeN  Offline
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 938
Ohio
Originally Posted by SiFi
BTW, here's a thing I would have asked you right up top, if not that I was so interested to find my own answer:

I did have thoughts. I was expecting responses like "no slower than 100" or "this movement needs to rock along at high speed." I thought everyone would be saying, you know, don't go under 100 or the judges will kill you. Also, I love most aspects of the Curzon performance, so I had hoped to emulate him right down to his metronome settings. The other thing is that I hate when my YouTube postings are always longer than the pros -- witness my last upload to Members Recordings, a performance, which I thought would be around 5:50 and was in fact more than 6 minutes.


How interesting to hear your thoughts about the Balakirev as I’m listening...

When you started, I did think, “Well this is a bit on the slower side than I’m use to.” Then, I heard you shape the main theme and I thought, “Well, that doesn’t matter. There’s a large enough tonal pallet here that this will be plenty enjoyable.” grin

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2738793
05/22/18 11:07 PM
05/22/18 11:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 528
Bristol, UK
T
timmyab Offline
500 Post Club Member
timmyab  Offline
500 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 528
Bristol, UK
I did some work on this concerto a few years ago and came to the conclusion that the slowest tempo you could get away with for the third movement was around about 85. Actually I'd be struggling at half that speed in places, but if the gods suddenly blessed me with a virtuoso technique this is the concerto that I'd be taking to the royal albert hall. Coincidently I have been working on the adagio for the last few weeks which I can now more or less play.

I've got a soft spot for the Zimmerman recording, it was the first one I owned and fell in love with the concerto listening to it. I agree that the Curson/Szell recording is outstanding.
Some artists do drop down into the 80s including the famous Gilels/Jochum recording I think. If I had the required technique I would choose to play it a bit faster, probably about 100 although the Gilels certainly sounds beautifully clean and magestic at the slower tempo.

Last edited by timmyab; 05/22/18 11:08 PM.
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: Mark_C] #2738811
05/23/18 01:05 AM
05/23/18 01:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Just thought I'd add a P.S. to this earlier post:

Originally Posted by Mark_C
P.S. I remember so well the first time I heard the piece. It was in your current hometown. I was in Washington for a meeting, had a free evening and was delighted to see that the National Symphony was in town and that the program included a Brahms Concerto. I wasn't familiar with either one at the time.
It was a great, great performance, Bruno Leonardo Gelber the pianist. I was completely bowled over, especially by this movement.....

A year later -- it was exactly a year -- I was in Washington again, for a similar meeting -- and, miracle of miracles, there was a Symphony concert again, and they were doing Brahms' second Concerto, again with Gelber as the pianist. While I had never heard either Brahms concerto a year ago, by now I had listened to both of them dozens of times on LP's, was in love with both, and was beyond thrilled at my great fortune that I happened to be back there to hear them do the second one.

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: MikeN] #2739250
05/25/18 12:23 AM
05/25/18 12:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
SiFi  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
Originally Posted by MikeN

How interesting to hear your thoughts about the Balakirev as I’m listening...

When you started, I did think, “Well this is a bit on the slower side than I’m use to.” Then, I heard you shape the main theme and I thought, “Well, that doesn’t matter. There’s a large enough tonal pallet here that this will be plenty enjoyable.” grin

You are awfully kind. Thank you! It is a lovely piece.

Last edited by SiFi; 05/25/18 12:25 AM.

SRF
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2739254
05/25/18 01:20 AM
05/25/18 01:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
SiFi  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
To everyone who has commented on this thread: thank you. I have learnt a lot about how best to deal with the tempo issue. Looks like I'll be going at between 88 and 94 and keeping it consistent through the movement until the tempo changes as required by the composer towards the end.

I have a couple of other insights and issues I'd like to raise, given that we're already talking as it were.

1. The typically Brahmsian (typically nasty, technically) variant on the transitional passage starting at bar 311 has a Leichiere Ausfuehrueng alternative in the Peters piano score. I devised a completely different "cheat" way of playing this passage in its original form that was quite complicated but worked up until the point where the figure starts to ascend. My teacher thought I was playing the Peters ossia, which of course meant that my workaround wasn't working properly. ha I've since figured out a solution that works. It's even more complicated than my original "cheat", but whatever. Anyone interested, PM me. But if anyone has a failsafe way to play this passage, respond to this post, per favore.

2. The broken octaves with the big leaps beginning on the upbeat to bar 360 present the most difficult technical challenges of the movement. There are no cheats for this. It's especially important to nail it because everyone (viz. jury) knows it's, like, a decision point. If the person can play this bit, we can all relax. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to perfect this passage? I've tried using the left hand as the anchor but that just results in inappropriate accents on the bass A. Using the phrasing and pedal indications definitely helps. But I still have too many misses in this section. You can't slow down because the orchestra is playing. So, yeah.

3. The "second subject" that first appears in bar 66: What do you all think about LH articulation, pedaling, accentuation (bass notes!), and volume throughout this passage and the recap? The recap (b. 348) is marked "con passione" forte, but how big should one play this? The lead in is so powerful that I just want to let it rip, but that's not what's codified in the score. (What a glorious Brahms moment though!)

4. In bar 354, should one use the 4th or third finger on the 3rd 16th note at the bottom of the 6th chord in the left hand? ha I say haha, but it's actually not a funny question.

Thanks everyone. I love you all.





SRF
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2739260
05/25/18 02:22 AM
05/25/18 02:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
(It would probably help some of us if you also gave the timings of those places on some selected video of the movement. Even for people who have the scores, not all scores give measure numbers.)

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2739269
05/25/18 02:53 AM
05/25/18 02:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Anyway, since my score does give them... grin

About that fingering in m.354: I don't get why this one is any more dilemma-ic than the rest of them. Why do you wonder about using anything but '3'?

Actually I can see a reason, but only 1, and I don't think it's a good reason.
Using 4 rather than 3 puts the hand into a 'healthier' position, but only slightly and only very momentarily, and anyway I don't see the problem about using 3, which doesn't give a particularly unhealthy position anyway.


About those broken octaves (beginning at end of m.359): I'm surprised you're singling this out too. While it's impossible for me to really know how it would be for me without working seriously on the movement, just from a play-through this seems like one of the less problematic parts. The only aspects that seem challenging are the upward leaps, which I guess is exactly what you're talking about, and maybe I'm terribly mistaken but those don't seem like they'd be any problem at all. Maybe it's because long ago I learned sort of a 'trick' for both-hands-leaping-at-the-same-time passages from Seymour Bernstein, although I don't know how much of a trick it is and never regarded it as one, because I figured it was a common approach; maybe it isn't.

In fact maybe it's much the same as what you mean when you talk about using one hand as the "anchor."

Here it is:
Two things are involved, the second of them being perhaps the "anchor" thing.

(1) Put your eyes (and head) to where you'll be leaping while you're still playing the previous note; in fact actually, a split second before playing the previous note, since you're solidly down there well before playing the note; no need to keep looking there the whole time.

And then:

(2) Don't try to look at both hands' destinations at the same time; pick one to look at first, and in fact start moving that hand first; don't be leaping both hands at exactly the same time. The difference between them is just a tiny fraction of a second but it's important. And, in shifting the gaze from each spot to the next, keep using that thing I said before about not waiting fully till your hand gets to the destination before looking to the next spot; the "looking" to each next spot is always slightly before getting to the previous spot.

I wonder if maybe when you say "anchor" you're talking about which hand leaps up first, and therefore which next spot you look at first. Not that the 'linguistics' of the word suggests that -- it more suggests something about the low notes before the upward leap -- but still I'm wondering if you mean what I'm talking about.

As to which hand to look/leap first, I think it could be either. I found myself doing left-hand-first because that way, the right hand, which is the one I want to emphasize more (presumably everyone does), is more in motion at the time of attack, which makes a stronger attack sort of automatic.

Another thing: If you use this approach, it means that one hand arrives at the upward leap a little before it plays the note. Seymour has a funny thing that he says about such arrivals: It's like how it was all the time in the army, "Hurry up and wait." grin
I find it a useful (and tension easing) internal message for places like that. Now and then while practicing it, I'd be smiling and telling my left hand to hurry up (to get up there) and wait (before hitting the note).
It makes the accuracy of the arrival very secure, and lets you concentrate fully on the arrival of the hand that's leaping later.


About that second subject, I'm standing pat with what I said before: Whatever. smile
To taste.
And you have good taste!!

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: Mark_C] #2739271
05/25/18 03:03 AM
05/25/18 03:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
SiFi  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
That is really, really interesting advice on the octaves/broken octaves section. As it happens, I am doing the "hurry up and wait" thing with the left hand, though oddly enough, that usually results in me hitting the right hand stuff accurately and flubbing the left hand. For some reason the LH loses its orientation as the right hand tries to find those high notes and usually finds them.

Anyway, good stuff. This is why I love PianistCorner.


SRF
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2739272
05/25/18 03:05 AM
05/25/18 03:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Originally Posted by SiFi
...the LH loses its orientation as the right hand tries to find those high notes and usually finds them.

Well, that means either the hand isn't really arriving there, or isn't really waiting!

BTW, what indeed is the issue about the fingering in 354?

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: Mark_C] #2739274
05/25/18 03:38 AM
05/25/18 03:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Originally Posted by Mark_C
About that second subject...

As I said, do it your way!

And y'know, "our way" can differ at different times, or change.




It can vary by the season of our life.
Or of our day.

I think I'd do that Brahms theme more like the younger Sinatra when I was young, and more like the older Sinatra when I'm older.
Although I had some older seasons when I was younger, and I imagine I'll have some younger seasons when I'm older. smile

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: Mark_C] #2739319
05/25/18 07:08 AM
05/25/18 07:08 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 142
K
kbrod1 Offline
Full Member
kbrod1  Offline
Full Member
K

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 142
Can't argue with the Chairman of the Board.

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: kbrod1] #2739765
05/27/18 01:49 AM
05/27/18 01:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
SiFi  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
Originally Posted by kbrod1
Can't argue with the Chairman of the Board.

I know. That would be wrong!

So would the chairman have preferred the first or the second of these randomly recorded samples of the B subject? I'm talking about my original question regarding the B theme, specifically regarding LH articulation and texture. (1) This is pretty close to the score (aside from the mistakes); hardly any pedal, restrained dynamcs. (2) More rubato, more passion, more pedal. More romantic, emotional. But less true to the score. (And please forgive the big thump at the end. That was a mistake.). Maybe this con passionato version is more how one should perform the passage in the final B section.

Anyway, I hear in advance the comments that are likely to come from certain sources. For example, "You must find a happy medium." "Somewhere between the two." That's all fine, but I would be really interested to hear a recommendation that is not not both of them. Leaving aside the fact that this interpretation is still in the embryonic stage, which of them represents a better way forward in the mind hive opinion?

Ciao







SRF
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2739775
05/27/18 03:10 AM
05/27/18 03:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Main thing: You're doing great.

Which way: I like the second way 100x more, but I'm not sure if it's that I really prefer your playing it that way or that I happen to like the way you did it 'that way' in this performance more than how you did it the other way.
BTW that doesn't mean you didn't also play well when you were doing the first way.

It's very interesting that you're so well able to do it both ways, but indeed I think that in this particular sit-down you "sold" the 2nd way much better. I suspect that if you committed yourself to the 1st way and had it solely in mind when you sat down to play, you'd 'sell' it better than you did here. That doesn't mean I think you should necessarily decide well in advance which way to go. As long as you know what your approach will be when you're playing the movement and have it firmly in mind, I think it will be fine -- either way.

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: Mark_C] #2739779
05/27/18 03:40 AM
05/27/18 03:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
SiFi  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,678
Washington, DC
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Main thing: You're doing great.

Which way: I like the second way 100x more, but I'm not sure if it's that I really prefer your playing it that way or that I happen to like the way you did it 'that way' in this performance more than how you did it the other way.
BTW that doesn't mean you didn't also play well when you were doing the first way.

It's very interesting that you're so well able to do it both ways, but indeed I think that in this particular sit-down you "sold" the 2nd way much better. I suspect that if you committed yourself to the 1st way and had it solely in mind when you sat down to play, you'd 'sell' it better than you did here. That doesn't mean I think you should necessarily decide well in advance which way to go. As long as you know what your approach will be when you're playing the movement and have it firmly in mind, I think it will be fine -- either way.

OMG, what do I do now? Thank you, I think. Mainly, thank you for not saying "something in between". What's the quote? ?There is no first or second way, only do."

Right now I'm thinking possibly first way for B1 and second way for B2. In the latter case, Brahms specifically indicates "con passione". As Trump is fond of saying, we'll see what happens.


SRF
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2739853
05/27/18 12:08 PM
05/27/18 12:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Originally Posted by SiFi
Right now I'm thinking possibly first way for B1 and second way for B2.

I was going to say "Yecchhh" to that, before I saw the next thing....

Quote
In the latter case, Brahms specifically indicates "con passione."

Really? And not the first time?
Huh.

BTW, here's something else that I was thinking of saying before but I didn't want to make it too complicated.
You said not to say "Something in between." Actually it sounds to me like the 'first way' that you played it was sort of "in between." I mean, you did it in a way that we knew what you were doing, but to me it sounded as though you might have been having 'the second way' in your mind or body. Maybe because you were already thinking 'the second way' in anticipation, maybe because you had just practiced 'the second way' before starting that take (or maybe because you were coming from a prior take, which meant you had just played the second way). Or maybe I'm just wrong. ha

Anyway, as I said up there, I think you happened to do the second way much better in the recording. I don't think that means anything about how you should do it.

So, how is this helpful??
It tells you that you can do whatever, as long as you know what you're doing. smile

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2739896
05/27/18 02:44 PM
05/27/18 02:44 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,918
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,918
Victoria, BC
I think that they are both viable interpretations of the section in question. Perhaps one thing to consider is whether one works better than the other with respect to what is going on in the orchestra (not much from my two-piano score) and how much support (or lack thereof) comes from the orchestral accompaniment.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: BruceD] #2739903
05/27/18 03:01 PM
05/27/18 03:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Originally Posted by BruceD
I think that they are both viable interpretations of the section in question. Perhaps one thing to consider is whether one works better than the other with respect to what is going on in the orchestra (not much from my two-piano score) and how much support (or lack thereof) comes from the orchestral accompaniment.

Yes -- always important to consider. (But) regarding this passage, I think the conductor and orchestra can adjust fine to either way -- but they have to know how the pianist will be viewing it each time the passage will be coming in.

Well actually they don't "have to" and I'm sure sometimes they don't. grin and that's not too good.
But provided they do....

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: SiFi] #2742170
06/04/18 08:25 PM
06/04/18 08:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
notPaoloFazioli Offline
Junior Member
notPaoloFazioli  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by SiFi
Originally Posted by kbrod1
Can't argue with the Chairman of the Board.

I know. That would be wrong!

So would the chairman have preferred the first or the second of these randomly recorded samples of the B subject? I'm talking about my original question regarding the B theme, specifically regarding LH articulation and texture. (1) This is pretty close to the score (aside from the mistakes); hardly any pedal, restrained dynamcs. (2) More rubato, more passion, more pedal. More romantic, emotional. But less true to the score. (And please forgive the big thump at the end. That was a mistake.). Maybe this con passionato version is more how one should perform the passage in the final B section.

Anyway, I hear in advance the comments that are likely to come from certain sources. For example, "You must find a happy medium." "Somewhere between the two." That's all fine, but I would be really interested to hear a recommendation that is not not both of them. Leaving aside the fact that this interpretation is still in the embryonic stage, which of them represents a better way forward in the mind hive opinion?

Ciao







Take this with a grain of salt-- I'm seventeen-- but as someone who plays this concerto and has a particular love for Brahms, I vastly prefer the first sample. Think about it: in that B section, your only accompaniment comes from pizzicato cellos. I play the left hand here as precisely and staccato as I can; it therefore blends with the cello accompaniment and contrasts with the legato, songlike right hand. Also, regarding pedal in early Brahms, less is almost always better. This piece was written from 1854-1859. A piano back then would not have had nearly the same sustaining capability as one made in the 1900s, so in my opinion, keep pedal usage to a minimum. Personally, I play the very opening of the third movement (the first statement of the rondo theme) without pedal!


"The piano is an orchestra with 88... things, you know" -Vladimir Horowitz
Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: notPaoloFazioli] #2742173
06/04/18 08:41 PM
06/04/18 08:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,263
New York
Originally Posted by notPaoloFazioli
Take this with a grain of salt-- I'm seventeen-- but as someone who plays this concerto and has a particular love for Brahms, I vastly prefer the first sample. Think about it: in that B section, your only accompaniment comes from pizzicato cellos. I play the left hand here as precisely and staccato as I can; it therefore blends with the cello accompaniment and contrasts with the legato, songlike right hand. Also, regarding pedal in early Brahms, less is almost always better. This piece was written from 1854-1859. A piano back then would not have had nearly the same sustaining capability as one made in the 1900s, so in my opinion, keep pedal usage to a minimum. Personally, I play the very opening of the third movement (the first statement of the rondo theme) without pedal!

Good points -- but it sounds to me like you're talking just in the abstract -- i.e. in a general way about how you regard the piece -- rather than with reference to him and how he played them.

Since he asked about it, it means he personally believes and feels it can be done either way. It sounds like you're basically just disagreeing with that, which is fine -- but it didn't seem like that's the main kind of thing he was looking for. In such a situation, unless I think that the idea of doing it one of the ways is way way off (and I think that's clearly not the case here; either way is justifiable), I try to look at it in terms of that particular person and what he's doing.

Re: Tempo For Brahms Piano Concerto I / 3 [Re: Mark_C] #2742174
06/04/18 08:50 PM
06/04/18 08:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
notPaoloFazioli Offline
Junior Member
notPaoloFazioli  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by notPaoloFazioli
Take this with a grain of salt-- I'm seventeen-- but as someone who plays this concerto and has a particular love for Brahms, I vastly prefer the first sample. Think about it: in that B section, your only accompaniment comes from pizzicato cellos. I play the left hand here as precisely and staccato as I can; it therefore blends with the cello accompaniment and contrasts with the legato, songlike right hand. Also, regarding pedal in early Brahms, less is almost always better. This piece was written from 1854-1859. A piano back then would not have had nearly the same sustaining capability as one made in the 1900s, so in my opinion, keep pedal usage to a minimum. Personally, I play the very opening of the third movement (the first statement of the rondo theme) without pedal!

Good points -- but it sounds to me like you're talking just in the abstract -- i.e. in a general way about how you regard the piece -- rather than with reference to him and how he played them.

Since he asked about it, it means he personally believes and feels it can be done either way. It sounds like you're basically just disagreeing with that, which is fine -- but it didn't seem like that's the main kind of thing he was looking for. In such a situation, unless I think that the idea of doing it one of the ways is way way off (and I think that's clearly not the case here; either way is justifiable), I try to look at it in terms of that particular person and what he's doing.


You're quite right! I guess, to revise what I said, it's important to keep things such as the accompaniment and the capabilities of historical instruments in mind when considering how to play it.


"The piano is an orchestra with 88... things, you know" -Vladimir Horowitz
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
ad
Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Lessons Online

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Thomas Young 1 temperament measured
by Hakki. 01/21/19 10:08 AM
Debussy - Arabesque No. 1
by cmb13. 01/21/19 09:11 AM
Saving to WAV or MP3 on a Kawai CA
by Garald. 01/21/19 08:26 AM
Naming convention of classical pieces
by Artur Gajewski. 01/21/19 08:16 AM
Help, pain when playing the piano!
by Hengsen10. 01/21/19 01:18 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,708
Posts2,784,307
Members92,171
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2