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Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
#2736809 05/15/18 12:14 PM
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Yesterday after assembling our brand new Kawai CA78, I played a few pieces on the default settings in "Pianist" mode. I really enjoyed the GF2 action, it's a standout for me, and the sampling sounds are quite good compared to some of the other digital pianos I tried in store previously.

But having the volume at around 5/8 to 3/4 of the way up, I noticed buzzing in the low notes coming from a point near the right speakers. I have done some research and found that for some people the vibration was actually coming from furniture or household objects near the piano. So I cleared the space of foreign objects, checked for placement, rechecked assembly, left over packing and made sure it was on an even surface. Eliminating those possibilities the problem still persists, so I left it overnight so see if some miracle might happen (wishful thinking). No surprise, the buzz was still there.

Putting my ear near the cabinet I can definitely tell it's the right hand side speakers. I wouldn't make a deal out of it if it didn't bother me while playing seating normally, but I can definitely hear it. The buzzing happens when I play base notes in the lower register (around C2 and below) and is most prominent with the "SK-EX Concert Grand", no buzzing for treble notes. My wife and mum could hear it as well.

So I'm just wondering, is it normal to have buzzing on a brand new piano seeing that there many components inside. Has anyone experienced similar issues with the Kawai CA-series?

What are my chances of getting an exchange for the body (the main cabinet), or will they send someone to come and fix it? I really hope it's not the latter since a technician might not be able to fix the problem and taking it apart could cause further problems if they are careless.

You'd think a premium expensive product like this would come out-of-the-box in perfect working order.

We were excited for this, but now it's kind of an anti-climax...


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
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Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2736810 05/15/18 12:19 PM
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Can only speak about MY experience with KAWAI: The have an excellent Service and will surely solve your problems. Contact them and they will check.

Gratulations for the purchase :-).

Alexander

Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2736841 05/15/18 02:19 PM
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No, it's not normal. Since it's new you can have Kawai service it.

Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2736845 05/15/18 02:24 PM
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Make sure it is not part of the piano that is vibrating with certain frequencies. Check all screws, speaker grills and other parts attached to piano.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2736863 05/15/18 03:01 PM
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Possibly the speaker only needs tightening up, or it's defective. I've had speakers which have been; the centre catches against the magnet. Kawai'll fix it, don't worry, but don't open it up either.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2736947 05/15/18 06:57 PM
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Hello ArtlessArt, congrats on your new CA78!

It's obviously a little disappointing to read that you're experiencing some speaker buzz/vibration, however I'm confident that this will be relatively easy to resolve.

If you have not done so already, please contact your dealer to have this matter dealt with under warranty.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2737012 05/16/18 12:48 AM
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Thanks for the replies guys.

@Learux - I have checked all screws and whatever I could that doesn't void the warranty.

@Peterws - Yeah, I definitely won't!

@Kawai James - I have contacted the dealer yesterday. The guy who sold me the piano said he can't reach the contact person from Kawai today, so would have to wait till tomorrow.

There's another issue with distortion on low notes played that are half a step apart. I've checked with headphones and it doesn't make the distortion, so it's probably the speakers or amp.

Here's the link of the video I recorded showing those problems. The video and sound is not that great since I forgot to switch my phone to Hi-Res before recording.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcjagpSRSlM


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2737026 05/16/18 02:52 AM
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ArtlessArt, I've watched (and listened to) the video, but I cannot really hear the distortion or buzzing that you describe - perhaps it's only audible in person, and cannot be picked-up by your phone's mic.

By the way, may I ask you to change the status of the video from 'Public' to 'Unlisted', please? The video will still be visible for your dealer, Kawai Australia, and the folks on this forum.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2737029 05/16/18 03:03 AM
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Buzzing or distortion indeed cannot be heard. But I do hear a pulsation in the sound, similar to binaural beats. Could this be what you mean, ArtlessArt?

Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
Kawai James #2737030 05/16/18 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
ArtlessArt, I've watched (and listened to) the video, but I cannot really hear the distortion or buzzing that you describe - perhaps it's only audible in person, and cannot be picked-up by your phone's mic.

By the way, may I ask you to change the status of the video from 'Public' to 'Unlisted', please? The video will still be visible for your dealer, Kawai Australia, and the folks on this forum.

Kind regards,
James
x


No worries James, video status changed to 'unlisted'.

The distortion is most pronounced @ 1:26, and the vibrating/buzzing sound @ 1:49.

I just played the video on the desktop PC and it wasn't really noticeable. I then switched to my galaxy S7 phone and then headphones on the laptop for playback. It's definitely there, though especially noticeable in person.

Kawai James, which peripheral did you use for the video?


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
mcoll #2737031 05/16/18 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by mcoll
Buzzing or distortion indeed cannot be heard. But I do hear a pulsation in the sound, similar to binaural beats.


Yes, I can hear this, however I assume it's related to the phone's mic, and the way the sound is being projected around the room as the beating sensation changes as the camera moves.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
mcoll #2737032 05/16/18 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mcoll
Buzzing or distortion indeed cannot be heard. But I do hear a pulsation in the sound, similar to binaural beats. Could this be what you mean, ArtlessArt?


I think you're right, mcoll described it better than me. "Pulsation" is probably the correct term for it.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2737034 05/16/18 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
No worries James, video status changed to 'unlisted'.


Thank you.

Originally Posted by ArtlessArt
The distortion is most pronounced @ 1:26, and the vibrating/buzzing sound @ 1:49.

Kawai James, which peripheral did you use for the video?


I'm just using my desktop PC and a pair of earbuds. I watched the video a few times again, especially at the points you highlighted, but I honestly cannot hear anything out of the ordinary, other than the beating mcoll mentioned above.

Kind regards,
James
x

ps. Nice slippers. wink


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2737035 05/16/18 04:00 AM
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I can't hear the buzzing in the video at all, but if it's significant enough you should definitely get it checked by the dealer.

For the pulsating sound, I doubt it's a defect. It's possible that this is an unwanted acoustic phenomenon due to the room and the placement of the instrument. And since it can't be heard on the headphones, it is unlikely that it's an interference in the samples / sound engine.
You can try moving the piano off center, placing it next to a wall, maybe diagonally and see if the problem persists. When moving it, be sure to screw back in the pedal support screw and then screw it back out before you use the pedals.

Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
Kawai James #2737038 05/16/18 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James


I'm just using my desktop PC and a pair of earbuds. I watched the video a few times again, especially at the points you highlighted, but I honestly cannot hear anything out of the ordinary, other than the beating mcoll mentioned above.

Kind regards,
James
x

ps. Nice slippers. wink


Kawai James, definitely noticeable at seating distance in person while playing, otherwise I wouldn't have spent the time to type out all the details and record the video.

I have compared it to both my Kawai acoustic (sitting right next to it) and ES110 (sitting perpendicular), neither of those make the strange 'pulsations' and/or the vibration/buzzing of the cabinet.

Thank you, slippers are the missus' blush


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2737096 05/16/18 08:41 AM
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I can really hear the problem and I don't think it's because of the piano position in the room. That pulsation sounds like an opera singer in his 70' when his voice vibrates too much, loosing control smile
Really need to check it out.

Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
ArtlessArt #2737113 05/16/18 09:39 AM
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Try recording this with the camera and microphone not moving. I have a feeling the sound pulsates because of the microphone being in constant motion.

Its a long shot move the guitar and see if that does anything


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T "I wish I had the room to keep you around"
August Forster 215
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
Learux #2737115 05/16/18 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Learux
Try recording this with the camera and microphone not moving. I have a feeling the sound pulsates because of the microphone being in constant motion.

Its a long shot move the guitar and see if that does anything



Yeah, I actually did this initially before posting the OP just to make sure; removed guitar & speakers & anything that might vibrate near the piano. Also had it in the middle of the room and cleared it of foreign objects.

Hopefully, the dealer hears something from Kawai so he can back to me soon smile


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Brand New Kawai CA78 Cabinet Buzzing
Learux #2737116 05/16/18 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Learux
Try recording this with the camera and microphone not moving. I have a feeling the sound pulsates because of the microphone being in constant motion.

Its a long shot move the guitar and see if that does anything



And also try with the microphone stationary and located well away from the piano, say the opposite side of the room but still with some space around it. (This is to eliminate it being a room resonance where your piano is).


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