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Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2732261
04/27/18 12:09 PM
04/27/18 12:09 PM
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New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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I similarly have wondered why 3d printing has not gained much traction in this business.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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Re: Lindner piano [Re: P W Grey] #2732282
04/27/18 01:00 PM
04/27/18 01:00 PM
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Washington DC area
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
I similarly have wondered why 3d printing has not gained much traction in this business.



If I was a tech in the field working on some snowflake instrument needing a part that's out of production, expensive, or just a pain in the ass to source, I would welcome a process like this:

1. snap a couple of high resolution photos of the part
2. email those to a local CNC or 3D printer fab (or just consume them yourself if you've got the fab gear)
3. convert those images to 3D models (there's free and almost free software that does that today)
4. convert those 3D models to CNC G-code (ditto)
5. feed the G-code to your machine and wait for it to excrete the part
6. fix customer's instrument and make money
7. rinse/repeat
8. (optional) create a library of those G-code files and share with colleagues so everyone benefits


1938 Chickering Baby Grand
Trying to learn about these fascinating instruments
Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2732360
04/27/18 06:24 PM
04/27/18 06:24 PM
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I agree.

Kranich & Bach would be a prime example of where to use this. Or an old Brown action. Etc.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2732449
04/28/18 04:11 AM
04/28/18 04:11 AM
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Scotland
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I think the problem, at least for now, is lack of "economy of scale". Ours is a niche market, and parts-making would only become profitable if there was a demand for a large number of units. Otherwise the unit cost of the parts would be prohibitive. Even with piano parts made from traditional materials, how many manufacturers are there> Not nearly as many as there were sixty years ago. Not in the West anyway.

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Re: Lindner piano [Re: David Boyce] #2732467
04/28/18 08:03 AM
04/28/18 08:03 AM
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Washington DC area
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Originally Posted by David Boyce
I think the problem, at least for now, is lack of "economy of scale". Ours is a niche market, and parts-making would only become profitable if there was a demand for a large number of units. Otherwise the unit cost of the parts would be prohibitive. Even with piano parts made from traditional materials, how many manufacturers are there> Not nearly as many as there were sixty years ago. Not in the West anyway.


Economy of scale would certainly apply to traditional manufacturing processes because of the huge capital cost in machinery, labor, and raw materials. This isn't one of those situations. You can literally go from some photos and a few measurements to an actual part in your hand within hours (or maybe faster). You need only to stock a few types of wood and maybe some delrin (and even aluminum if you want to make metal parts). Quality CNC machines are coming down in price to about $2-3k (and dropping fast). While it will never be as cheap as an assembly line, you also don't have to stock thousands of parts anymore. Suitable for common parts? Of course not. But suitable for parts that are out of production or difficult/expensive to acquire? I think so. Not every tech would need the equipment. If you had a couple of these setups in your town, that would be ideal. The equipment can obviously make a LOT more things than piano parts.

It may take a while, but I suspect this is where this and other niche industries are headed.

Best,


1938 Chickering Baby Grand
Trying to learn about these fascinating instruments
Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2732530
04/28/18 02:46 PM
04/28/18 02:46 PM
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I agree 100%

Ritz,

Can brass be printed that is as strong as plate brass (from which we have customarily stamped out or machined small threaded parts to hold center pins)? I am specifically thinking of Chickerings with brass flanges, butt plates, etc.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)
Re: Lindner piano [Re: P W Grey] #2732556
04/28/18 04:48 PM
04/28/18 04:48 PM
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Washington DC area
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
I agree 100%

Ritz,

Can brass be printed that is as strong as plate brass (from which we have customarily stamped out or machined small threaded parts to hold center pins)? I am specifically thinking of Chickerings with brass flanges, butt plates, etc.



Brass is somewhere in the middle between Aluminum and steel in terms of hardness. You wouldn't print it. You'd have to start with bar/plate/rod and mill that into the shape you want. I've not tried milling brass before, but I don't think it would be particularly challenging. Can you show me an example of a part you're talking about?

Printing metal parts is still pretty cutting edge and a bit expensive. I think we're still maybe 5-10 years out from having consumer/pro-sumer machinery availability. Printing plastic parts is fairly easy/cheap.

Best,


1938 Chickering Baby Grand
Trying to learn about these fascinating instruments
Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2732584
04/28/18 06:34 PM
04/28/18 06:34 PM
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Oakland
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Brass can be cut with CNC machines. I think that is how logos are made these days.


Semipro Tech
Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2732614
04/28/18 08:24 PM
04/28/18 08:24 PM
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Maybe a suitable type of plastic could be 3D printed to replace brass flanges?

Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2732627
04/28/18 10:52 PM
04/28/18 10:52 PM
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Yes, I have wondered that too. I suspect delrin might suffice, but I don't know about its long term strength in the manner of a butt plate. CF maybe.

I have never figured out how to post a photo here. I am somewhat challenged that way. I would like to post a photo of a Chickering brass whippen flange with butt plate as well as brass hammer flange.

I will try to figure it out.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)
Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2732930
04/30/18 06:16 AM
04/30/18 06:16 AM
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Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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You need to upload the photo to a photo hosting site, and "Use Full Editor" here, to post the link to the hosted photo.

Re: Lindner piano [Re: Steven Bolstridge] #2733008
04/30/18 11:57 AM
04/30/18 11:57 AM
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Suggestion on photo hosting site?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)
Re: Lindner piano [Re: P W Grey] #2733035
04/30/18 01:33 PM
04/30/18 01:33 PM
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Photos should be posted to the Piano Photo Gallery area here on Piano World. That way the link will not go dead as long as Piano World is up.


Semipro Tech
Re: Lindner piano [Re: Ritz] #2734110
05/04/18 02:09 PM
05/04/18 02:09 PM
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Virginia, USA
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Originally Posted by Ritz

It may take a while, but I suspect this is where this and other niche industries are headed.

Best,


We have a small mom and pop specialty auto parts store in town. They have the weird stuff the usual places don't have, or even know about. I was talking with them the other day and they're thinking eventually the auto parts inventory will be largely in software and they'll print parts to order.

3D printing is available free at our local library and for a cost at a number of specialty stores, and you can pick several types of plastic including glass reinforced nylon. Home Depots in some areas have machines. BUT! they're very slow, it can take hours to print a complicated part, and there's a good bit of maintenance on the machines. You can get one for $2-$300 now.


gotta go practice
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