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Under strings felt - plate contact
#2731691 04/25/18 12:17 PM
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Hey Dears:

I had a lot of problems tuning a secction of an old grand piano, someone suggested to lubricate with Protek CLP the underfelt of the strings.
I did it, but now i realize that the strings are touching the metal, and it´s a piece of wood under the felt.
i guess that was the problem to tune this part.
In the high upper secction tne strings doesn´t touch the plate, but the section before, yes.
It´s that ok, or is a bad repair?

fotos on the gallery forum. wink

Thanks a lot!!

Pablo
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Pablo Woiz; 04/25/18 07:54 PM.

Pablo Woiz
Yamaha G2, Roland Fp-30 //before: Technics p-30, Casio Privia px-100, Yamaha MX-49, M.Audio Axiom-61, Yamaha CP-80, Roland f-20, Upright Zimmermann.
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Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2731777 04/25/18 06:56 PM
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Pablo, have you seen the post here a few days ago about lubricating bearing points?

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ricating-bearing-points.html#Post2730907

Last edited by Hemloch; 04/25/18 06:57 PM.
Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2731894 04/26/18 06:28 AM
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Quote
I did it, but now i realize that the strings are touching the metal,


Pablo, which metal are you referring to? In some of the photos it looks as if the strings might be touching the back edge of the plate, just before they go under the capo bar (frame/plate bar). That would indicate a serious problem. In the closest photo, however, the strings don't appear to be touching there. The strings should, of course, be touching the underside of the frame bar, which functions as a capo bar.

You will see in the other thread that there are various views on applying Protek CLP to these strings-to-metal bearing points. The strings look nice and clean and I don't think the under-string wood/felt batten would actually be a problem on that piano. But lubricating there would have done no harm.

Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
David Boyce #2731900 04/26/18 06:35 AM
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David,

thanks, yes, the fotos are note clearly.
In the highest secction the strings doesn´t touch the metal but in the secctio before yes.
That´s what i meant.

here a better foto.

[Linked Image]


David,

thanks, yes, the fotos are note clearly.
In the highest secction the strings doesn´t touch the metal but in the secctio before yes.
That´s what i meant.

Originally Posted by David Boyce
Quote
I did it, but now i realize that the strings are touching the metal,


Pablo, which metal are you referring to? In some of the photos it looks as if the strings might be touching the back edge of the plate, just before they go under the capo bar (frame/plate bar). That would indicate a serious problem. In the closest photo, however, the strings don't appear to be touching there. The strings should, of course, be touching the underside of the frame bar, which functions as a capo bar.

You will see in the other thread that there are various views on applying Protek CLP to these strings-to-metal bearing points. The strings look nice and clean and I don't think the under-string wood/felt batten would actually be a problem on that piano. But lubricating there would have done no harm.



Pablo Woiz
Yamaha G2, Roland Fp-30 //before: Technics p-30, Casio Privia px-100, Yamaha MX-49, M.Audio Axiom-61, Yamaha CP-80, Roland f-20, Upright Zimmermann.
www.pablowoiz.com
Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2731922 04/26/18 08:32 AM
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The felt is too thick, thus raising the strings above the bearing points (metal) and causing excessive drag on the strings, and poor rendering. Removing the felt and replacing with thinner felt would require loosening strings. Look how far the strings bury into the felt. In this design, there is enough drag on the strings without adding a thick piece of felt. Removing the felt completely might cause ugly harmonics, so a thinner felt strip would be best.




Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2731928 04/26/18 09:01 AM
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The felt is too soft to provide much friction. It may be that the wood underneath is installed backwards in one section. I do not know whether the strings should be touching the metal or not, but it probably should be one or the other. This would have been done when the piano was strung. If it has not been restrung, it is probably a poorly made piano. What make is it?


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Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2731931 04/26/18 09:20 AM
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Pablo, thank you for the additional and very clear photo. I think BDBs suggestion of a poorly made piano must be correct.

I don't think there is very much you can do about this without "major surgery".

I would certainly be inclined to apply Protek Prolube where the strings are contacting the back edge of the plate like that. Otherwise, I guess it would be a case of removing the strings in that area, and grinding down the rear edge of the plate.

Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
David Boyce #2731934 04/26/18 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by David Boyce
Pablo, thank you for the additional and very clear photo. I think BDBs suggestion of a poorly made piano must be correct.

I don't think there is very much you can do about this without "major surgery".

I would certainly be inclined to apply Protek Prolube where the strings are contacting the back edge of the plate like that. Otherwise, I guess it would be a case of removing the strings in that area, and grinding down the rear edge of the plate.


Hmm.. thanks.

And what about to put a thicker felt or thicker piece of wood to lift the strings and avoid contact with the plate?
it´s about from C5 to F6, I could loose the strings and replace the felt or wood.
Grinding would be not possible....

Thanks!


Pablo Woiz
Yamaha G2, Roland Fp-30 //before: Technics p-30, Casio Privia px-100, Yamaha MX-49, M.Audio Axiom-61, Yamaha CP-80, Roland f-20, Upright Zimmermann.
www.pablowoiz.com
Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2732002 04/26/18 03:11 PM
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And what about to put a thicker felt or thicker piece of wood to lift the strings and avoid contact with the plate?


Well, it might be worth a try, I guess. A wider wood batten, going nearer to the back edge. And maybe covered in bushing cloth or action cloth rather than soft felt? But there is not much distance between the frame bar (capo bar) and the back edge of the plate. You might end up with the strings coming up at a very steep angle.

I'm writing as if I know what I'm doing here, but I've never tried anything like this! What do others think?

Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
David Boyce #2732140 04/27/18 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by David Boyce
Quote
And what about to put a thicker felt or thicker piece of wood to lift the strings and avoid contact with the plate?


Well, it might be worth a try, I guess. A wider wood batten, going nearer to the back edge. And maybe covered in bushing cloth or action cloth rather than soft felt? But there is not much distance between the frame bar (capo bar) and the back edge of the plate. You might end up with the strings coming up at a very steep angle.

I'm writing as if I know what I'm doing here, but I've never tried anything like this! What do others think?

Personally, I'd be grinding. Get a high power dremel or something and cut some channels just wide and deep enough for the strings to pass through without contact. Depends how many strings are affected though, I suppose. And the OP has to be willing to remove the strings.

Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2732204 04/27/18 08:55 AM
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This could be way off base.

It looks to me like the piano was restrung, and the bearing bar and the rest were transposed.
I have seen many pianos with a half-round bearing bar close up to the capo; none with a string rest between.

Craig


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Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Craig Hair #2732258 04/27/18 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Hair
This could be way off base.

It looks to me like the piano was restrung, and the bearing bar and the rest were transposed.
I have seen many pianos with a half-round bearing bar close up to the capo; none with a string rest between.

Craig

Intresting Craig.

what about if I take the felt out, and move the rounded bar a bit towards the capo?

Pablo


Pablo Woiz
Yamaha G2, Roland Fp-30 //before: Technics p-30, Casio Privia px-100, Yamaha MX-49, M.Audio Axiom-61, Yamaha CP-80, Roland f-20, Upright Zimmermann.
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Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2732260 04/27/18 12:04 PM
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I doubt the piano is worth the trouble.


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Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Pablo Woiz #2732266 04/27/18 12:17 PM
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BDB got it right when he noted that the felted rest is reversed. It is thinner toward the tuning pins when it should be thinner towards the capo. Somebody wasn't paying attention when they restrung the thing.

Pwg


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Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
BDB #2732463 04/28/18 07:50 AM
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BDB,
The piano may not be worth the time, but the lesson would be.
I would drop the tension way down and lift the bead over and in front of the string rest.
The slope of the string rest would then be correct.

Be well,
Craig


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Re: Under strings felt - plate contact
Craig Hair #2732489 04/28/18 11:05 AM
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I think it would be easier to restring that area than to try to move things under the strings.


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