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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736085
05/13/18 06:04 AM
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Frederic, I think you meant it the other way around: stand-alone means after instalation you can directly open the vst in it's own program - i.e. It doesn't need an external program or host, therefore it can "stand-alone", just as Erard explained above.

Last edited by mcoll; 05/13/18 06:07 AM.
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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736087
05/13/18 06:08 AM
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Yes stand alone doesn’t need a host. It is rare to find a virtual instrument which is not available in VST and/or AU. Generally they can also be load in a DAW.

(The exception I know is Haupwerk which is only stand alone. Its VST doesn’t load the instruments but send it MIDI event, but can’t get the sound back as usual VST).

Last edited by Frédéric L; 05/13/18 06:14 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: Frédéric L] #2736089
05/13/18 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Stand alone generally means the player can’t be loaded without an host (DAW or other host)!


That's why I assumed you didn't want to write this smile

Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736095
05/13/18 07:05 AM
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<scratches head in confusion>

The host (which is also called a player) is what makes an instrument 'standalone'. It is also what makes it playable in a DAW (ie. it will have a VST dll file which the DAW recognises).

If the host/player doesn't have that dll file, it will not work inside the DAW - which makes it standalone only, which sounds like the case with Haupwerk.

Some commonly used hosts/players (which work both inside the DAW as a plugin or standalone) are:

Kontakt (native instruments)
UVI workstation (UVI)
Player (EWQL)
Pianoteq
Sforzando (Plogue)


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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736100
05/13/18 07:35 AM
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No, the host is the program which loads (and hosts) a plugin. Depending of the technology, the plugin is a VST instrument or an Audio Unit (Mac) (or other forms : RTAS,AAX...). The host is typically a DAW, a software like Cantabile or Mainstage, or a given software dedicated to load the virtual instrument. An other VST host is... VSThost : http://hermannseib.com/English/vsthost.htm

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology where hosts and plugins are clearly differentiated.

I agree about the player : it is the software which loads the samples and interprets them. It may have two forms : standalone or plugin. The Play_VST_x64.dll of EWQL is a player like the name said (it exists also as a standalone player Play_x64.exe). The Vienna Synchro Pianos is a player with no standalone version.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 05/13/18 07:58 AM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736104
05/13/18 07:57 AM
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Simple guide, for the benefit of simple people like me:-

Part A: I start with some samples and some idea of what I want to do with them. I add some bells and whistles and write a program to control how my samples should relate to the input from my keyboard. I probably add a graphical interface at this point as well with controls that the end user can interact with. This is called a Virtual Studio Technology (VST) plugin and comes as a .dll file along with a bunch of other files for the samples and programs. Not playable without something more.

Part B: I put my plugin in a piece of software which I call a host. This might be a general Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) (e.g. Logic, Pro Tools, Ableton etc.), or it might be a generic program designed purely to host any type of VST (e.g. Savihost) or it might be a program design to host only VSTs that use specific program routines offered by that host (such as Kontakt, Aria, UVI Workstation). Confusingly, some of these hosts can also act as plugins themselves and be hosted by other hosts (usually DAWs).

These parts are combined in three broad scenarios:-

1. Some piano VSTs (Part A) bundle the host (Part B) with them (e.g. Garritan CFX, which includes Aria player).

2. Some specify a particular host and require you to download it: sometimes free (e.g. the Ravenscroft 275 requires the free UVI Workstation), sometimes not free (e.g. the Production Grand 2 requires the full version of Kontakt

3. Some others require no particular host (e.g. the VSL CFX) and leave you to use your choice of host, which might be a DAW that you already have or decide to acquire (e.g. Ableton), or a dedicated VST host (e.g. Savihost).

The VSL CFX belongs to Scenario 3.

Last edited by karvala; 05/13/18 08:00 AM.

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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736107
05/13/18 08:10 AM
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That's a great overview, Karvala.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736110
05/13/18 08:13 AM
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I would said 3 parts : the samples/instruments (ex a .nki file - Native Kontakt Instrument), the player which is a plugin (VST and AU architecture by example), and the host.

The VSL CFX samples are downloaded separately from the VSL Synchron Pianos, the name of which seems to be opened for future other pianos.

There exists also two parts scenarios like Pianoteq (a single VST file which don’t need samples).


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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: Frédéric L] #2736112
05/13/18 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by toddy
That's a great overview, Karvala.


Thanks. smile

Originally Posted by Frédéric L
I would said 3 parts : the samples/instruments (ex a .nki file - Native Kontakt Instrument), the player which is a plugin (VST and AU architecture by example), and the host.

The VSL CFX samples are downloaded separately from the VSL Synchron Pianos, the name of which seems to be opened for future other pianos.

There exists also two parts scenarios like Pianoteq (a single VST file which don’t need samples).


Curiously, I actually had three parts in my original version and then thought that samples are usually tied to a particular instrument so it was more confusing to separate, but you're right, in some cases like Konkakt the situation is a bit more complex and they can be separated from the player. I still think it's probably more confusing to separate them though, because it's liable to confusion of loading different instruments in hosts (e.g. Aria loading the Production Grand and the Concert Grand) which could easily be confused with loading different instruments into a VST (and especially if you call it player; e.g. people might think that Aria player is a therefore a VST rather than a host)..


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736120
05/13/18 09:27 AM
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Generally, samples are in a proprietary format, then we can’t choose the player. Ex Bechstein Digital Grand needs Kontakt (full or free player). With open format instruments (SF2, SFZ), we can have the choice.

In the other way, 1/ we have some player designed for a given samples set. The VSL Vienna Imperial is a player designed for their eponymous samples (separating the player from the samples makes little sense), 2/ some player which are designed for a given brand (Ivory Player is common for the whole set of Ivory pianos), or 3/ even for third party instruments (Kontakt and UVI workstation can load samples from other brands).

We can have some other cases : Garritan CFX is loaded by an eponymous player, but it is an Aria Player tuned to load Garritan CFX. Garritan CFX can also be load by the normal Aria Player.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 05/13/18 09:39 AM.

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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736129
05/13/18 10:27 AM
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So if I buy the VSL Standard CFX product and download all the samples onto my computer, I can only open them up and play them inside of GrageBband which is the only DAW I have?

When I open it up in Garageband will the interface look like the Synchron interface in the 30 min youtube video? Thanks for the help.

God Bless,
David


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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736722
05/15/18 06:42 AM
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I heard back from Paul at VSL. A very nice and patient guy (I've been asking him a lot of questions). Grangeband will not host the VSL CFX because it does not recognize their protection system. Paul suggested I get Logix pro x. When I looked it up on the apple website, it's a 200 dollar program. I can't afford that on top of the cost of the of the VSL CFX and the USB protection thingy (30 dollars).

Anyone know how I can record this if I get it? Paul said that the Vienna Ensemble software, that's free on his website, will work as a standalone host for the VSL Yamaha CFX. Now I just need to find a way to record and transfer the midi into Grageband since tha'st the only DAW I have. I really can't afford to buy a new program. Any suggestions? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 05/15/18 06:44 AM.

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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736724
05/15/18 06:51 AM
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The incompatibility of GarageBand seems curious. The host-plugin interface (Audio Unit here) doesn’t provide protection. It is up to the plugin to protect itself with a direct access to the eLicenser drivers here. I can’t see why Logic would be superior than GarageBand on this subject.


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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: Frédéric L] #2736727
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
The incompatibility of GarageBand seems curious. The host-plugin interface (Audio Unit here) doesn’t provide protection. It is up to the plugin to protect itself with a direct access to the eLicenser drivers here. I can’t see why Logic would be superior than GarageBand on this subject.


This is what Paul said, "Our products will not work in Garage Band, as it is a sandboxed host which does not recognize our protection system, eLicenser."

Any ideas how I can record the VSL CFX if I buy it? I'd like to do it for free if possible.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 05/15/18 07:16 AM.

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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736731
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I'm definitely not an expert on these - but I think Audacity is a free download and Reaper is free for a 60 day trial ($60 to purchase). I've seen both of these recommended.

Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736774
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Audacity is not a DAW like Cubase, Logic, GarageBand... it can’t load VSTi like VSL CFX, only VSTfx (reverb, eq...).

@David B : with the sandboxing, I understand the reason of the limitation of GarageBand. This should be very restrictive if it prevents iLok and eLicenser protected softwares.


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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2736781
05/15/18 11:42 AM
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Cakewalk Sonar is free as well.

Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: David B] #2736792
05/15/18 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by David B

This is what Paul said, "Our products will not work in Garage Band, as it is a sandboxed host which does not recognize our protection system, eLicenser."

David


Paul seems to be misinformed. I have no problem running Synchron CFX in GarageBand. Some of their other products don't work, but as far as I can tell it is not because of licensing issues. VI Pro 2 in particular does not work (it can't find the samples from the Directory Manager). VE Pro works.

Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: slobajudge] #2737283
05/16/18 08:59 PM
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Some time ago I purchased MainStage, but never used it. I'm thinking that I might be able to run the VSL CFX as a AU plugin with MainStage and and record with it also. Therefore, I don't have to buy a new program to record. I'm waiting to hear back from Paul to confirm his CFX will work with MainStage. I will get the VSL CFX if it does.

God Bless,
David


Last edited by David B; 05/16/18 09:00 PM.

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Re: New incoming Yamaha CFX vst from VSL [Re: David B] #2737291
05/16/18 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
Some time ago I purchased MainStage, but never used it. I'm thinking that I might be able to run the VSL CFX as a AU plugin with MainStage and and record with it also. Therefore, I don't have to buy a new program to record. I'm waiting to hear back from Paul to confirm his CFX will work with MainStage. I will get the VSL CFX if it does.


Synchron CFX does work in MainStage.

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