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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729125
04/15/18 08:34 AM
04/15/18 08:34 AM
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GD- With my daughter being older and my son having had a three year head start on piano- there’s no way having my daughter play piano ever worked. They are jealous enough of each other playing different instruments smile.

We live in a super competitive area for everything. So many kids sound professional in HS in their instruments.

Last edited by pianoMom2006; 04/15/18 08:37 AM.

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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Gary D.] #2729163
04/15/18 01:16 PM
04/15/18 01:16 PM
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[quote=Gary D.] My philosophy: for the first year hopefully playing becomes fun. If it does, people are going to lose track of time. They will set out to play 15 minutes, and all of a sudden 45 minutes or an hour will go by.

If you never get to that point, as a player, then it never really becomes fun. Meanwhile, life goes on, and all sorts of things come up.
[quote]

Gary = our forum sage! He has encapsulated the whole piano teaching enterprise for many of us.

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: pianoMom2006] #2729211
04/15/18 04:03 PM
04/15/18 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoMom2006
CR- I understand your frustration... but do your lessons start late? I remember when my son was at a music store his lessons always started late but ended on time. I calculated that he received probably 23 minutes of instruction in a 30 minute lesson. So if hypothetically If I came and picked up my son on time I’d probably not feel bad talking very briefly after the lesson. I think it’s human nature too to want feedback after the lesson. Could you mentally build into your schedule that a 3:00 pm lesson is really from 3:05 to 3:35 eg? Do you think that would help solve the last 5 minute problem. You can maybe use to cues to help mitigate it too like the one I mentioned in my prior post if you haven’t done so.


pianomom, no, my lessons start right on time. I know how frustrating it is to have to wait when you have an "appointment,." and I know my families expect their lesson to be on time. My students are very rarely late. There is a teacher who gives a lesson to my student before he comes to me. This teacher is routinely late, and goes over time to give him the full half hour. Consequently, he starts 5 minutes late. If I spoke to his family after his lesson, we have now finished 10 minutes over, making the next student wait for 10 minutes. By the end of the night, the last student could literally have to wait 1/2 hour. Teachers do not have breaks, and lessons run until closing. We have to stay on time..


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: pianoMom2006] #2729216
04/15/18 04:14 PM
04/15/18 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoMom2006
GD- With my daughter being older and my son having had a three year head start on piano- there’s no way having my daughter play piano ever worked. They are jealous enough of each other playing different instruments smile.

We live in a super competitive area for everything. So many kids sound professional in HS in their instruments.

That's typical. When there is a lot of age difference, it can be a bit different. If the older is playing well, and the younger hears and wants to do the same thing, there is time.

Two siblings nearly the same age is trickier.


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729256
04/15/18 09:05 PM
04/15/18 09:05 PM
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
There is a teacher who gives a lesson to my student before he comes to me. This teacher is routinely late, and goes over time to give him the full half hour. Consequently, he starts 5 minutes late. If I spoke to his family after his lesson, we have now finished 10 minutes over, making the next student wait for 10 minutes. By the end of the night, the last student could literally have to wait 1/2 hour. Teachers do not have breaks, and lessons run until closing. We have to stay on time..

I had this problem, and so I would knock on the door when it was time for my student's lesson. The previous teacher got the hint (and actually, I think she would just lose track of time since she had a class to be at right away). So that's pretty much stopped it and it doesn't happen anymore.

When you only have 30 minutes with a student, every minute counts. There's really no time for consultations. I often have to cut off parents and ask them to text me later.


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729363
04/16/18 11:21 AM
04/16/18 11:21 AM
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Morodiene, I knock on the door and have told this teacher on numerous occasions that I have to start on time.


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729391
04/16/18 01:01 PM
04/16/18 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
Morodiene, I knock on the door and have told this teacher on numerous occasions that I have to start on time.

If a parent does not like that your lesson ends on time without having had the full length of time because of the prior lesson's lateness AND your communication with your colleague has not gotten anywhere, the next step might be the parent addressing that with the prior teacher. If the parent is not around during the change of lessons to notice (maybe dropped off and went shopping?), I would say one after-lesson conversation about the subject is appropriate, then the ball is in the parent's court to take the matter up with the other teacher or with management. You do your best but at some point it's out of your hands.

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729394
04/16/18 01:08 PM
04/16/18 01:08 PM
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Rainbows, do you mean your student has two different instrumental music private lessons back to back? Isn't that difficult for the student to process? Or is it a private music theory lesson that spills over into your piano teaching slot? Or is it something else?

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729455
04/16/18 04:44 PM
04/16/18 04:44 PM
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chasingrainbows Offline OP
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Peter, I will PM you.


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: mostlystrings] #2729512
04/16/18 09:41 PM
04/16/18 09:41 PM
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Boynton Beach, FL
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Originally Posted by mostlystrings
Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
Morodiene, I knock on the door and have told this teacher on numerous occasions that I have to start on time.

If a parent does not like that your lesson ends on time without having had the full length of time because of the prior lesson's lateness AND your communication with your colleague has not gotten anywhere, the next step might be the parent addressing that with the prior teacher. If the parent is not around during the change of lessons to notice (maybe dropped off and went shopping?), I would say one after-lesson conversation about the subject is appropriate, then the ball is in the parent's court to take the matter up with the other teacher or with management. You do your best but at some point it's out of your hands.

It may depend on the parent, but ya, if that doesn't work or they don't want to address it, then speak with the management. Or end the lesson on time and leave it at that. I would not let a late student set everyone else who is on time behind.

That happened to me once, and after apologizing for this for a few weeks, I realized that I was inconveniencing a bunch of people for the sake of one, which didn't make much sense and made me look behind even though I like to run on time.

Last edited by Morodiene; 04/16/18 09:43 PM.

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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729517
04/16/18 10:09 PM
04/16/18 10:09 PM
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Clearly this is something to take up with the store administrator/owner, or in the forum of a faculty meeting. In the meantime, I agree with Morodiene: just give the kid abbreviated lessons that start late and end promptly.

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Peter K. Mose] #2729599
04/17/18 11:51 AM
04/17/18 11:51 AM
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Gary D. Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter K. Mose
Clearly this is something to take up with the store administrator/owner, or in the forum of a faculty meeting. In the meantime, I agree with Morodiene: just give the kid abbreviated lessons that start late and end promptly.

Peter, being late is a habit. and as a person who is always on time, I find it intolerable.

My grandmother was always late, and the whole family joked about it. But what it comes down to is that "MY time is more important than YOUR time", so if one of us has to wait, it's going to be us waiting for the other person. By that, I mean it is a mindset. I think it's also a way of controlling.

My first college teacher was the same way. He was always 5 to 15 minutes later. He was late for the first lesson, and late the rest of the day. Always. I remember having a horrible problem trying to play because I would warm up and arrive exactly on time, then I'd have to wait.

Every lesson.

I suppose how we handle this is part of our personality. Some people put up with it.

I don't.

When my students arrive late, they lose lesson time. On rare occasions, when it is not habitual and there is a good reason, I will go over a bit if there is no student following. But when the next student is on time, that student starts on time, and it's tough luck for the previous, late student.

In the rare situation where I've had to wait for a student, because of another teacher, I simply say: "You have to talk to the other teacher about being late," if we are not in the same building. In the same building I walk to the other class and give the other teacher are very hard time.

This REALLY ticks me off...


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Gary D.] #2729615
04/17/18 12:44 PM
04/17/18 12:44 PM
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The director of our community orchestra while I was in college began rehearsals right at 6:30 pm on the nose. If you weren't in your seat, ready to play your instrument, you could expect (and would unfailingly receive) a firm reprimand in front of the group.

It didn't happen often -- people learned very quickly.

And I'll add that he himself never dismissed us late, either. He held us accountable to start on time, and himself accountable to end on time.

That's respect.

Last edited by Andamento; 04/17/18 12:57 PM.
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2729646
04/17/18 02:52 PM
04/17/18 02:52 PM
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chasingrainbows Offline OP
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I agree, Gary D. and Andamento. My families are very punctual and I am as well. This teacher is much more laid back - comes in late, goes over, keeps next student waiting, until it's escalated to the point where the last student really being kept waiting. I will stand at the teacher's door, pointing to my watch, and this teacher's next student is standing next to me waiting. Teacher just isn't getting it. And is very friendly with staff, so going to manager is pointless.


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Andamento] #2729730
04/17/18 09:20 PM
04/17/18 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Andamento
The director of our community orchestra while I was in college began rehearsals right at 6:30 pm on the nose. If you weren't in your seat, ready to play your instrument, you could expect (and would unfailingly receive) a firm reprimand in front of the group.

It didn't happen often -- people learned very quickly.

And I'll add that he himself never dismissed us late, either. He held us accountable to start on time, and himself accountable to end on time.

That's respect.


+1 That really is RESPECT!


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2730021
04/18/18 09:28 PM
04/18/18 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
I agree, Gary D. and Andamento. My families are very punctual and I am as well. This teacher is much more laid back - comes in late, goes over, keeps next student waiting, until it's escalated to the point where the last student really being kept waiting. I will stand at the teacher's door, pointing to my watch, and this teacher's next student is standing next to me waiting. Teacher just isn't getting it. And is very friendly with staff, so going to manager is pointless.


Not wanting to change the subject, but I find myself wondering if the teacher you describe is originally from a different culture.

There is a blogger I read who has lived most of her life in the US, but is now in the Philippines. She writes that, at least in the area of the country where she is, people's concept of time is far different than Americans'. Conversations go long, without concern for what time it might be, or when someone you're speaking to might have to be somewhere else at a given time. It's a more relationship-based culture than a time-based one; unhurried regarding moving on to the next thing or the next person.

Anyway, our culture, of course, is not like that, but I would imagine that assimilating into a culture whose concept of time is far different than one's own would be quite a challenge for a while.

If the teacher you're referring to is American, CR, she just might fit better into a culture that doesn't live so much by the clock. smile

Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2739236
05/24/18 10:36 PM
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I think it may help if teachers understand they are still kids. I heard that our brain is not fully developed until the age of 20s. Students age 5 - 10 are very different from adults, and it helps them understand lessons better if we understand how they learn. In my case, if I like to teach a concept, I tend to choose a repertoire that the student likes. Even pop melodies could work. If a student wants to play the song, they will listen to you smile


"Men can do all things if they will" ...Kenji...
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2739372
05/25/18 10:46 AM
05/25/18 10:46 AM
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Kenji, I think that is why my retention rate is so good. Most of my students started with me at age 6-7 and are teens now. As soon as they can read a few notes, I put them in books that have songs they are familiar with and like. The majority of each student's assignments are pieces they select, based on the kinds of songs they like that I play for them (Harry Potter, Disney, Katy Perry, etc.). They do technical pieces (short ones) and a lesson book song as well. The students I have difficulty holding interest in lessons are those who have no musical exposure--they never listen to music at home, in the car, or can name movies that they like, for example.


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Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: chasingrainbows] #2739843
05/27/18 11:51 AM
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Hi Chasingrainbows, I totally agree with what you described. I think it is important to include pieces that students like in lessons, in addition to etudes.

I am so glad that you pointed out that it is difficult for students who have no musical exposure in their life to hold interest in lessons. I think environment are so important to keep motivating students. Do you do anything about it? For example, Suzuki method requires parents to listen to its repertoires. Based on my teaching experience, I see good results. My only concert is that each family has their own music preference. And Suzuki repertoire is not for all. Teaching tradition is important, but I feel it is not enough for non-professional musician to keep enjoying music.


"Men can do all things if they will" ...Kenji...
Re: Students that exhaust my energy [Re: Kenji13] #2739899
05/27/18 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenji13

I am so glad that you pointed out that it is difficult for students who have no musical exposure in their life to hold interest in lessons. I think environment are so important to keep motivating students. Do you do anything about it?

I had absolutely no musical exposure (except by accident, e.g. in movies, or overhearing friends' pop songs on their radio-cassette recorders) in my life when I was a piano student in my home country - my parents knew and cared nothing for any sort of music, and I even had to do my practicing in competition with the TV most of the time.

My first teacher supplied me with everything musical - including introducing me to the delights of great piano music by playing it on the piano for me - a new classical piece after every lesson, each one memorable in its own way, but none of which I had the ability to play until several years later. It was my highlight of the week during that time, and I got her to write down the titles and composers of all of them. Eventually, I did learn them for myself.

It wasn't until several years later that I realized how much influence that teacher had on me, because I thought that everything she was able to do - sight-read and sight-sing easily, play by ear, improvise - was completely 'natural' and 'expected' of every competant pianist. And I also realized that my musical tastes were pretty much identical to hers....... grin


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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