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What do you think?
We're under a tornado watch tonight, so I was sitting at the piano trying to practice with one ear listening for tornado sirens, should they go off. Not good for concentration. I worked my way through a couple of pieces, but then bagged it. I couldn't keep my mind on what I was doing and that seemed like a recipe for making errors.
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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one of the benefits of practicing, reinforcing the discipline of focus and concentration. sustaining some moments of focus is better than nothing. for me there are plenty of sessions where the proper notes and rhythm are elusive, but my joints are degenerating on their own fast enough, and keeping them accustomed to use is better than letting them follow their own entropy.
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I applaud your commitment. I think we will be watching for a storm here in the south on Sunday. I have such a fear of strong weather that I’m sure it would be useless to try and focus enough to practice. Stay alert to it and be careful.
Alesis Coda Pro PianoVideoLessons.com Currently unit 4 Faber All In One -Level 2 Grateful Dead fan since 1987
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Not sure there is such a thing as bad practice. Now, on the other hand, when you make a mistake playing in front of 2500 people, that's bad, but not the end of the world. Hence, a valuable lesson in itself... the art of recovery. All the best, Rick
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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It's better to practice in bad condition than not practicing at all imho. Not talking about practicing bad necessarily.
I practice in extreme fatigue and sleepiness many times. In fact most of the times. My job is hard. It require me to work odd hours like testing process or completing presentations in the middle of the night. I am actually looking for different job now. Anyway, I'm always tired. If I sleep, there will be no practice every day because I'm tired working 12 hours a day. I often notice starting to sleep on the keys (pass out?). But amazingly I notice making progress albeit slow it is.
Today is good. I was able to come home at 5 and slept until 8. I am amazed that my head is clear.
Last edited by FarmGirl; 04/14/18 03:10 AM.
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I think any practice is better than no practice, with one exception - sloppy practice. I too often practice when I am over tired and fuzzy brained. I can still practice is short bursts - 15 minutes of paying attention. If I find myself making tons of mistakes or just playing too fast, I get up and walk around a bit and then try again. I think you can do damage to a piece if you start practicing mistakes. It doesn't take many times of making the same mistake before it becomes ingrained, and then it is very hard to correct it.
FarmGirl - Your schedule sounds nightmarish!
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I agree with SwissMS that sloppy practice can damage your pieces by ingraining mistakes that you haven't completely eliminated yet. IMHO, playing without being mentally present is not really practice and worthless as a practice session. Its only value is to keep the discipline of playing every day. I think if you took a break instead you could have benefited from the reset effect that happens when we give ourselves a break sometimes and, again IMHO, that is more valuable than a bad practice session.
@FarmGirl - your case is different because all your practice is under bad conditions. If you are always tired then you do what you can with the practice time you have.
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I used to think practicing every day no matter what is a must. But I have changed my mind after having been forced to cut down my practice. Where I am now it actually seems to be beneficial, both physically and memorywise, to only practice when I feel up to it. I did practice daily for about 5 years and now have had to cut down my practice sessions gradually during 2 years, so that's where I base my assesment. HOWEVER it is a possibility, that daily practice as a beginner was required to get to the point where I do not feel uncomfortable to return after a break of a few days.
Above is true for general playing quality and learning new material efficiently. For maintaining actice repertoire my present practice time is too little. But it's not a priority atm anyway.
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I think of bad practice as actually anti-practice. I can definitely make things worse if my concentration is poor.
I know this for sure, having recovered from injury. There were times when I practiced as much as I possibly could--only to find I had drifted back into bad habits without realizing it.
That's not even about making "mistakes," just playing with improper technique. But of course, if you play mistakes there's a danger of practicing them in also.
I always try to stop if my concentration isn't there--even if it's just to take a short break.
1989 Baldwin R
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I applaud your commitment. I think we will be watching for a storm here in the south on Sunday. I have such a fear of strong weather that I’m sure it would be useless to try and focus enough to practice. Stay alert to it and be careful. The storm passed. We've had worse. Having experienced a tornado some years ago where three people were killed (just across the street from where I was working), I pay attention to Watches and Warnings.
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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one of the benefits of practicing, reinforcing the discipline of focus and concentration. sustaining some moments of focus is better than nothing. for me there are plenty of sessions where the proper notes and rhythm are elusive, but my joints are degenerating on their own fast enough, and keeping them accustomed to use is better than letting them follow their own entropy. Yes, keeping up the discipline of sitting down to practice is important. For me, at least (I've been a devotee of MOYD for a number of years now). I was able to play through three of my pieces, but by the time I got to the third one, I knew my focus wasn't there and stopped before I totally screwed it up. It's better to practice in bad condition than not practicing at all imho. Not talking about practicing bad necessarily.
I practice in extreme fatigue and sleepiness many times. In fact most of the times. My job is hard. It require me to work odd hours like testing process or completing presentations in the middle of the night. I am actually looking for different job now. Anyway, I'm always tired. If I sleep, there will be no practice every day because I'm tired working 12 hours a day. I often notice starting to sleep on the keys (pass out?). But amazingly I notice making progress albeit slow it is. ...... FarmGirl, I wish you every success in finding a different job, one that is better for your health. Being tired all the time and not getting enough sleep is not good--would you want to be a passenger on a bus you were driving? Okay, down off my soapbox. I think any practice is better than no practice, with one exception - sloppy practice. I too often practice when I am over tired and fuzzy brained. I can still practice is short bursts - 15 minutes of paying attention. If I find myself making tons of mistakes or just playing too fast, I get up and walk around a bit and then try again. I think you can do damage to a piece if you start practicing mistakes. It doesn't take many times of making the same mistake before it becomes ingrained, and then it is very hard to correct it. Agree. 'Bad' practice can mean a lot of things. Sloppy practice is just that--no focus and lots of mistakes and before you know it, it's ingrained. I agree with SwissMS that sloppy practice can damage your pieces by ingraining mistakes that you haven't completely eliminated yet. IMHO, playing without being mentally present is not really practice and worthless as a practice session. Its only value is to keep the discipline of playing every day. I think if you took a break instead you could have benefited from the reset effect that happens when we give ourselves a break sometimes and, again IMHO, that is more valuable than a bad practice session.
@FarmGirl - your case is different because all your practice is under bad conditions. If you are always tired then you do what you can with the practice time you have. I am definitely a believer in frequent breaks. Getting up and moving around does wonders to reset your body and mind. However, last night I stopped my practice just before the storm hit. By the time everything had cleared, it was close to bedtime, so I didn't sit back down at the piano. With respect to your last two sentences in reference to FarmGirl's post: if you're always tired, period, then something needs to change. Your health will suffer and then your job and your piano endeavors will suffer as well.
Last edited by Stubbie; 04/14/18 10:56 AM.
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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I used to think practicing every day no matter what is a must. But I have changed my mind after having been forced to cut down my practice. Where I am now it actually seems to be beneficial, both physically and memorywise, to only practice when I feel up to it. I did practice daily for about 5 years and now have had to cut down my practice sessions gradually during 2 years, so that's where I base my assesment. HOWEVER it is a possibility, that daily practice as a beginner was required to get to the point where I do not feel uncomfortable to return after a break of a few days.
Above is true for general playing quality and learning new material efficiently. For maintaining actice repertoire my present practice time is too little. But it's not a priority atm anyway. I do think daily practice is important in the early years, especially in the early phases of learning new pieces. What I don't require of myself nowadays is to practice every piece every day once it's past the early learning stage. More mature pieces do seem to benefit from a break. I think of bad practice as actually anti-practice. I can definitely make things worse if my concentration is poor.
I know this for sure, having recovered from injury. There were times when I practiced as much as I possibly could--only to find I had drifted back into bad habits without realizing it.
That's not even about making "mistakes," just playing with improper technique. But of course, if you play mistakes there's a danger of practicing them in also.
I always try to stop if my concentration isn't there--even if it's just to take a short break. With regard to practicing as much as you possibly could after recovering from injury and drifting back into bad habits--this is where focus and mindfulness come into play. I never practice to the clock. I decide which pieces I need to practice and more or less what parts I'll concentrate on (sometimes this changes as I play and discover some other place needs work) and what I hope to achieve and when that's done, I'm done practicing.
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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I find that with any kind of discomfort, anxiety, fatigue… my focus is badly affected. However, that seems to be an okay time to work on something that requires more concentration than normal-- sight reading, memorization, working out a difficult passage. That will distract me from whatever is distracting me!
Can't say that this is the best approach to take during a tornado watch though… You don't want to be so engrossed that you're literally carried away while playing the piano!
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Practicing music is more than just spending many hours at the piano. The most difficult is learning a piece from scratch. You are trying to get all the notes and your fingerings. If you play wrong notes and not correct them, you can be repeating the same mistakes the next time. In the beginning when learning to play easy pieces, you can develop bad habits and not know it like poor posture, hand position, etc. By the time you start playing longer and more complication, you may run into muscle problems.
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There are times when it's obvious to me I'm totally flummoxed and I give it up. But then - there are times when that turns out to be true and I'm at a gig So I do at least give it a try to get thru something and get some focus back in line. It's definitely practicing the focus that's important to me at that time. There was a long time when I didn't realize focus needed practice, but a couple of years ago I finally saw the light. I usually try to slow something way down and play it with a different slant than usual - dreamy rather than upbeat or something. That kind of gets me in to the music and gives me a different insight in to the melody/backing, so it's good. A friend of mine and I were talking about it just yesterday - becoming more familiar with the chord structure, finding a place to hang your hat on while you're performing so you have more and more of those for any given tune. But sometimes - it's just worth getting up and doing something else. At least you've learned to be more attuned to yourself, and that's always helpful.
Cathy Perhaps "more music" is always the answer, no matter what the question might be! - Qwerty53
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one of the benefits of practicing, reinforcing the discipline of focus and concentration. sustaining some moments of focus is better than nothing. for me there are plenty of sessions where the proper notes and rhythm are elusive, but my joints are degenerating on their own fast enough, and keeping them accustomed to use is better than letting them follow their own entropy. Seems to me that they are conflicted. If we're having a difficult practice day then slowing parts down to a crawl is the only way to hit the right keys.
"Motivation is simple, you eliminate anyone who isn't motivated." - Lou Holtz.
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I think that "bad practice" can have differen meanings. It is possible to practice in an inefficient way, for instance due to lack of concentration or fatigue. With such practice you'll probably need more time to learn the piece, but it doesn't really do any harm. There is, however, a more malicious form of bad practice where you consistently do wrong things. For instance being inconsistent with fingering, covering up inaccuracies with the pedal or playing much too fast. I know everything about this, because I have done it a lot myself, and still often do it. The result is bad habits that can be really hard to get rid of. And you will actually never be able to play pieces well. My view is therefore that "bad practice" may be worse than no practice, but that practice under low concentration just slows down the progress.
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You all appear to equate practice with playing a piece. If your concentration or fatigue prevents you from playing correctly, how about spending that practice time to play simple exercises and a couple of scales? Nothing demanding but keeps the hand in and the brain relaxed. I picked up A Dozen A Day, bk 1 by Edna-Mae Burnan, in a thrift store. Cute pics and uncomplicated exercises, just what I need when my head is fuzzy.
Last edited by Dreamingstill; 04/15/18 11:18 PM. Reason: typo
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I think that "bad practice" can have differen meanings. It is possible to practice in an inefficient way, for instance due to lack of concentration or fatigue. With such practice you'll probably need more time to learn the piece, but it doesn't really do any harm. There is, however, a more malicious form of bad practice where you consistently do wrong things. For instance being inconsistent with fingering, covering up inaccuracies with the pedal or playing much too fast. I know everything about this, because I have done it a lot myself, and still often do it. The result is bad habits that can be really hard to get rid of. And you will actually never be able to play pieces well. My view is therefore that "bad practice" may be worse than no practice, but that practice under low concentration just slows down the progress. +1 When I am i a 'bad practice mood' and I realize it, sometimes I will just play something reasonably in the repertoire and just enjoy it... though in the making or the listening I never know.
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