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Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 #2728115
04/11/18 01:00 AM
04/11/18 01:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,348
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline OP
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Hello folks,

Not strictly digital piano related, however here's some new product information that some PianoWorld visitors may be interested in:

Quote
Kawai is proud to announce that a new hybrid upright piano instrument, named AURES, will be previewed to the public at the Musikmesse exhibition held in Frankfurt, Germany from 11th~14th April.

AURES – blending AUDIO and RESONANCE – instruments are equipped with a newly developed resonance system that allows the soundboard of a Kawai K series upright piano to also deliver digital audio, such as commercially available music, or the sound of other musical instruments, without the aid of additional speakers.

Read more...

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728116
04/11/18 01:12 AM
04/11/18 01:12 AM
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So is it also an acoustic piano with stings?

Tim

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728118
04/11/18 01:24 AM
04/11/18 01:24 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
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So it's an acoustic upright + digital without speaker system ?

Does it have silent system?

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kenny Cheng] #2728126
04/11/18 02:14 AM
04/11/18 02:14 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Timpskie
So is it also an acoustic piano with stings?


Yes.

Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
So it's an acoustic upright + digital without speaker system ?

Does it have silent system?


Yes and yes. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728127
04/11/18 02:19 AM
04/11/18 02:19 AM
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Interesting. What is approx. price range?

Thanks
Osho


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Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Osho] #2728129
04/11/18 02:37 AM
04/11/18 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Osho
Interesting. What is approx. price range?


As with the NOVUS preview at Musikmesse last year, I don't believe pricing has been finalised yet.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728130
04/11/18 02:41 AM
04/11/18 02:41 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
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The sound engine for the digital part is the same as CA78/98?

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kenny Cheng] #2728132
04/11/18 02:56 AM
04/11/18 02:56 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
The sound engine for the digital part is the same as CA78/98?


Yes, the same sound engine and touchscreen interface as the CA98/CA78 and NV10.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728151
04/11/18 04:58 AM
04/11/18 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Timpskie
So is it also an acoustic piano with stings?


Yes.

Originally Posted by Kenny Cheng
So it's an acoustic upright + digital without speaker system ?

Does it have silent system?


Yes and yes. wink

Cheers,
James
x


So it’s an ATX2?

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Pete14] #2728152
04/11/18 05:09 AM
04/11/18 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
So it’s an ATX2?

I don't think the ATX2 has the new SK-EX Rendering Engine, or has it? The Aures does.
Also an ATX2 system has no transducer on the soundboard, so you need headphones to hear the digital sound and without headphones you only get the acoustic sound (while not in silent mode). With the Aures you can hear the digital sound (plus whatever you get via line in) also via the soundboard, even if the acoustic parts (i.e. hammers and strings) are in "silent mode".

EDIT: Ah, I just saw over in the NV10 thread, that there already exists an ATX2-f version that does have a transducer. So the main difference (to the ATX2-f version) would then indeed be the new sound engine. Or is that also already included in the ATX2 too?

Last edited by JoBert; 04/11/18 05:13 AM.
Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728155
04/11/18 05:31 AM
04/11/18 05:31 AM
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So an update (and rename) to the K500 ATX2-f then? smile

Though that had a couple of speakers as well as the soundboard, is the aures soundboard only? Is there going to be a grand version? (not that I'm in the market for either!)

jobert, going on the specs the current ATX2 system seems to be roughly the same as the CA65 electronics (i.e. HiXL but only the EX concert sample and no sk-ex or sk-5) so is also possibly due an update generally. (?)

osho, the k500 atx2-f goes for £8,899 in the UK, c/f £8,599 for a K500 ATX sans transducer and £7,199 for a normal K500. On that basis the silent system is adding £1,400 and then a further £300 for the amps/speakers/transducer which might give an idea of the kind of price this will be. Obviously much depends on the upright the aures is based on! Probably a bit of inflation needs to go on as well. A CA78 seems a bit more expensive than the CA65 used to be.

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: JoBert] #2728158
04/11/18 05:48 AM
04/11/18 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Pete14
So it’s an ATX2?

I don't think the ATX2 has the new SK-EX Rendering Engine, or has it? The Aures does.
Also an ATX2 system has no transducer on the soundboard, so you need headphones to hear the digital sound and without headphones you only get the acoustic sound (while not in silent mode). With the Aures you can hear the digital sound (plus whatever you get via line in) also via the soundboard, even if the acoustic parts (i.e. hammers and strings) are in "silent mode".

EDIT: Ah, I just saw over in the NV10 thread, that there already exists an ATX2-f version that does have a transducer. So the main difference (to the ATX2-f version) would then indeed be the new sound engine. Or is that also already included in the ATX2 too?


Yes, I meant to say the ATX2-f

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728161
04/11/18 06:17 AM
04/11/18 06:17 AM
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As much as we're being cynical I can see the logic. I suspect there's a fair few that don't realise that kawai actually has a equivalent to the yamaha transacoustic. I was only aware of the yamaha one for a while before I noticed the -f variant showing up on a google search for ATX2 and wondered what it was...

Last edited by Bambers; 04/11/18 07:21 AM.
Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Bambers] #2728165
04/11/18 06:40 AM
04/11/18 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Bambers
I suspect there's a fair few that don't realise that kawai actually has a equivalent to the yamaha transacoustic.
I certainly was in that category too, until I saw your other post. smile

With the two-generations-newer enhanced sound engine and the Onkyo brand name hardware (transducer), the rebranding makes sense to me too.

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728183
04/11/18 08:34 AM
04/11/18 08:34 AM
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@KAWAI James:
I've seen today's facebook fotos from KAWAI exhibition stand on MUSIKMESSE 2018.
What are the differences between ATX3 and AURES?
Will there be a ATX3-f Version or is AURES the successor of ATX2-f ?

The foto of the "K-500 AURES" shows a monitor above the instrument. On that monitor it looks like one can see a very little picture of the primary (Vibtone-115) and the secondary (Vibtone-36) transducers of the TwinDrive Soundboard Speaker System, which is used in the CA98. Am I right?
So, is the new AURES the last year TwinDrive Soundboard Speaker System for acoustic pianos?

Or is AURES an improvement to the last year TwinDrive Soundboard Speaker System?

Are there brochures for the ATX3 and the AURES systems available? PDF-Downloads?
Are you doing demonstrations on the KAWAI-ONKYO booth?

Info: YAMAHA is presenting his TransAcoustic TA2 and his SILENT Piano SH2 system.
What a coincidence...

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728196
04/11/18 09:50 AM
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Has Yamaha given any specific details about his TransAcoustic TA2?

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Pete14] #2728224
04/11/18 11:36 AM
04/11/18 11:36 AM
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@Pete14
What I've found (till now) you can read and listen with following links:

Yamaha TransAcoustic TA2 website: https://de.yamaha.com/de/products/m...sacoustic/ta2/features.html#product-tabs
Yamaha TransAcoustic™ Piano TA2 Overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xhi0RgHr8I

As of today, for KAWAI AURES there is only a press statement on their kawai-global.com site. Yesterday - the day before MUSIKMESSE 2018 - KAWAI Japan published a shorter press statement about AURES. So in the evening I've written a post to that on the NV10 thread, probably the false thread to that new product, hoping it could be a soundboard system to a new model for the NOVUS series. The Japanese press statement said nothing about AURES, that it's just for the upright K-series.

For the YAMAHA TransAcousic TA2 today one can find YouTube-Clips and extended infos on their website. That's a big difference in terms of professional marketing. KAWAI obviously does not get that kind of thing.

It's a real shame! Because they released their AnyTime X2-f (ATX2-f) system long before YAMAHA released their TransAcoustic system. YAMAHA bought a "similar" system from SCHIMMEL, the AudioForte system from the 1990s, and improved it, so they had a system like KAWAI. Last year I've spoken with KAWAI Europe in Krefeld about their ATX2-f and he told me his experiences with the release shows of the TransAcoustic: You could hear a nasal (!) sound that came from their soundboard because YAMAHA did not use special speakers for the treble range.
One must know that the vibrating strings of the treble range of an upright- or grand piano don't bring the upper soundboard (far right) to resonate as well as the vibrating strings of the middle or bass range are doing that for their specfic range in the middle and far left on the soundbord. The wooden soundboard is way too slow to follow the high frequencies in the treble range, and the energy coming from those much lighter hammer heads and the very short strings is too low. Due to these circumstances a piano-sound played through the TransAcoustic lacks treble if there is no additional reinforcement in the treble register. And this system has no treble reinforcement by its design, cause it has no discrete treble speakers. Of course, one could ad those speakers. But who does it?? That's the reason why in comparison it sounds nasal. The YAMAHA officials confirmed this sound impression from the german KAWAI guys.
But today everybody knows the TransAcoustic system. And many people think that YAMAHA was first. As a reflex they think the TransAcustic system is better.
Who knows for years (!) about the ATX2-f system??


Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728239
04/11/18 01:04 PM
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Thanks, Francis.
As of now, Yamaha does not go into specifics in terms of how the transducer-based system in the new TransAcoustic is improved over the older model.
I had not heard about the older model sounding ‘nasal,’ but if this is the case, I would hope Yamaha has taken care of this for the new model.

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Pete14] #2728263
04/11/18 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Thanks, Francis.
As of now, Yamaha does not go into specifics in terms of how the transducer-based system in the new TransAcoustic is improved over the older model.
I had not heard about the older model sounding ‘nasal,’ but if this is the case, I would hope Yamaha has taken care of this for the new model.

That usually means there is no improvement, otherwise Sales will be jumping up and down


Thanks
Osho


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Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728279
04/11/18 03:55 PM
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That might be the case.
Regarding the AURES, it does seem like there have been some improvements over the current ATX2-f.

Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728343
04/11/18 08:46 PM
04/11/18 08:46 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline OP
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Hello chaps, thank you for your comments.

I should preface my post by saying that I'm primarily involved in the digital piano side of Kawai's business, rather than the acoustic piano business. However, I shall try to respond to your queries.

First, I will try to summarise the development of Kawai's 'AnyTime' instruments:

- 199x~200x: AnyTime/AnyTimeII (AT/ATII) - key switch sensors, various DP sound engines
- 2007: AnyTimeX (ATX) - optical hammer sensors, best DP sound engine = CA91/CA71/CA51
- 2014: AnyTimeX2 (ATX2) - optical hammer sensors, best DP sound engine = CA95/CA65

Within the ATX/ATX2 line-up, there were three sub-types:

- 'p' type (e.g. ATX-p): smaller control panel, lower specification sound engine, DP sound with headphones
- 'normal' type (e.g. ATX): regular control panel and sound specifications, DP sound with headphones
- 'f' type (e.g. ATX-f) regular control panel and sound specifications, DP sound with headphones, and soundboard + cone speaker system.

This year, Kawai will launch the ATX3 series of upright pianos, with a revised line-up:

ATX3 ('normal' type): touchscreen control panel, CA98/CA78/NV10 spec sound engine, DP sound with headphones
ATX3L ('lite' type): smaller control panel (no touchscreen), CN-spec sound engine, DP sound with headphones

In addition, Kawai will also introduce the AURES line:

AURES: touchscreen control panel, CA98/CA78/NV10 spec sound engine, DP sound with headphones, new soundboard speaker system (soundboard only - no speakers).

As with the NOVUS last year, the ATX3 and AURES models are being previewed at Musikmesse, before a proper release later in the year. For this reason, the final specifications, features, and pricing are still to be confirmed.

Again, I am not so closely involved with the acoustic piano (including AnyTime) side of Kawai's business, however I hope this information helps to clarify the ATX3/AURES plans ahead of the full launch later in the year.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai to preview AURES hybrid piano at Musikmesse 2018 [Re: Kawai James] #2728350
04/11/18 09:23 PM
04/11/18 09:23 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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On the topic of ATX3, here's a brief video about the new models from Bonners Music:



Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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