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Baldwin 243 buying advice #272737
06/30/07 05:08 PM
06/30/07 05:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
superlocrian Offline OP
Full Member
superlocrian  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
Hello all. I'm new to the board. My name is Mike Rogers and am a PhD student in Music Theory and Teaching Fellow at the University of North Texas in Denton, TX. I know little about pianos, and would like to purchase a new or used Baldwin 243. I prefer this model for a couple of reasons:

1. Good reputation
2. I really like the desk area above the keys where I can lay out oversized manuscript paper and do some writing. Seems as if most pianos (like the U1 Yamaha) have a space for sheet music to rest but not a good hard writing surface. I find the P22 Yamaha a bit to short (that is, the writing surface) because the height of the keys is higher than the Baldwin.

Bottom line is I am looking for a Baldwin 243 (unless you know of something similar in quality and design- by design I mean 45" or so, and large desk area above keys). There are tons of good deals on the internet (wholesalers, ebay, school sales, etc.) For example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BALDWIN-HAMILTO...Z019QQcategoryZ43377QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

but I'm leery of these due to the cost of hiring a tech to see the piano, cost of shipping, chances of damages during shipping, etc. Also, I like to see/touch a piano before buying. I'm not ruling out the internet option, however, if it's the best deal. Right now I'm just searching for the best options and would like to buy soon.

Any suggestions on the best way to get a good deal on one of these pianos? Is it better to go new or used? How do I know if I'm getting a good deal? Is it a good way to go buying off the internet from ebay or a wholesale place? What should I expect to pay for a new one or good used one? Well, you get the idea . . .

Your professional opinions are highly valued- Thanks!

Mike Rogers

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272738
06/30/07 06:27 PM
06/30/07 06:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member
mikhailoh  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
Go to a local Baldwin dealer. These pianos are not terribly expensive and are considered very good value. The Dallas area dealer is right on Inwood in Dallas.

Piano Gallery
13520 Inwood Road
Dallas Texas 75287
Phone: (972) 490-5397
Fax: (972) 490-1243
Email: pianooutlet1@yahoo.com
Website: http://www.dfwpianogallery.com


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272739
06/30/07 06:52 PM
06/30/07 06:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,787
USA
B
Bob Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,787
USA
Look inside the piano for the Baldwin tag. If the address says "Cincinatti, OH" this piano will have no warranty from Gibson, the current owner (though the store may give you a warranty). Check the action to make sure key repetition is fast enough for you. Look at the action for miss-aligned or warped action parts, and listen for clicks or other action noises. They do stay in tune very well, so if the action is good, the piano might be very nice.




Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272740
06/30/07 06:53 PM
06/30/07 06:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,815
West Coast
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Craigen  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,815
West Coast
Yamaha and Kawai make similar models for school use. I am a fan of the 243 as well.


Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272741
06/30/07 08:37 PM
06/30/07 08:37 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 113
Ephrata, Pa
Ron Gardiner Offline
Full Member
Ron Gardiner  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 113
Ephrata, Pa
Quote
Originally posted by superlocrian:
Hello all. I'm new to the board. My name is Mike Rogers and am a PhD student in Music Theory and Teaching Fellow at the University of North Texas in Denton, TX. I know little about pianos, and would like to purchase a new or used Baldwin 243. I prefer this model for a couple of reasons:

1. Good reputation
2. I really like the desk area above the keys where I can lay out oversized manuscript paper and do some writing. Seems as if most pianos (like the U1 Yamaha) have a space for sheet music to rest but not a good hard writing surface. I find the P22 Yamaha a bit to short (that is, the writing surface) because the height of the keys is higher than the Baldwin.

Bottom line is I am looking for a Baldwin 243 (unless you know of something similar in quality and design- by design I mean 45" or so, and large desk area above keys). There are tons of good deals on the internet (wholesalers, ebay, school sales, etc.) For example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BALDWIN-HAMILTO...Z019QQcategoryZ43377QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

but I'm leery of these due to the cost of hiring a tech to see the piano, cost of shipping, chances of damages during shipping, etc. Also, I like to see/touch a piano before buying. I'm not ruling out the internet option, however, if it's the best deal. Right now I'm just searching for the best options and would like to buy soon.

Any suggestions on the best way to get a good deal on one of these pianos? Is it better to go new or used? How do I know if I'm getting a good deal? Is it a good way to go buying off the internet from ebay or a wholesale place? What should I expect to pay for a new one or good used one? Well, you get the idea . . .

Your professional opinions are highly valued- Thanks!

Mike Rogers
(unless you know of something similar in quality and design- by design I mean 45" or so, and large desk area above keys)."

In September of 2003, while visiting the factory in Guangzhou, I was part of a design team that created the Pearl River UP115E. This piano has precisely those features that you desire. It is intended as a Pearl River Institutional Piano. At least, check it out. Go to www.Pearlriverusa.com
and click on professional Uprights then you can see the UP 115E.
"


Until Next Time
Industry veteran of 37 years.
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272742
07/01/07 08:20 AM
07/01/07 08:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 992
Carmel, Indiana
Larry Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Larry Larson  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 992
Carmel, Indiana
Hi Mike,
I also do some composing and I own a Baldwin 243 that I bought new 6 years ago. I can easily put my manuscript paper on the area you are describing and it works just great. The desk area goes the whole width of the piano so there's still room for lots of other stuff if you need it. These pianos are durable and well respected. They hold their tune well. The action can be regulated to become very good. A surprise benefit is the tone. I know most folks here on the forum consider then a good basic workhorse piano, but some of us who own them really love the tone. If you get a new one the tone will be rather dull at first, but then as the hammers get settled in it blooms into a very nice sound. Then after many years they can become too bright and tinny or tubby, but that's nothing a little voicing can't fix. If it says "Baldwin" on the fallboard above middle C and says "Hamilton" to the far right, then it's an Made in the USA 243. Baldwin also has 2 other professional studio uprights called the 248 and the 6000. They are worth taking a look at, and sometimes you can find good deals on new ones. For example my local Baldwin guy (who I trust) has a new 6000 that he is selling for half what it origally sold for. Larry Larson


1995 Baldwin L grand
2001 Baldwin Hamilton upright
Yamaha S90 synthesizer
www.larrylarsonpiano.com
YouTubeChannel www.youtube.com/LarryLarsonPiano
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272743
07/01/07 10:06 AM
07/01/07 10:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Mike,

The eBay piano you cited does have a very attractive price. But it would still be money lost if it didn't fill your needs. That piano is being sold by what is called a 'trading assitant'. This means that the eBay seller is a middleman who markets anything that people are too lazy or too busy to sell themselves. The seller's last three sales were sterling silver dinner forks, used car magazines, and a used computer.

If you use eBay, use the closest-to-you listing option in the box at the upper right. Only consider pianos that you will be able to personally inspect. If you don't trust your judgment, be ready to bring someone more knowledgeable with you. And by all means factor in any and all costs you are likely incur beyond the actual purchase price....moving, tuning, voicing, regulation, and repairs.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272744
07/01/07 05:07 PM
07/01/07 05:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
superlocrian Offline OP
Full Member
superlocrian  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
Thanks so much for the advice guys- I really appreciate it. My local Baldwin dealer replied to my inquiry of a new 243 with this response:
___________________________________________________________
The lowest price we are able to sell this piano is $3977. It will be at our Baldwin Roadshow event July 5-8. There will be factory direct rebates on this piano. Our regular price is $4995. You are right, it is an awesome workhorse of a piano, sounds awesome too. Let me know if you have any questions, as I would be glad to help. The bench and delivery are free.
___________________________________________________________
Is this the best deal I can expect to find on a new 243? Is there anything of which I need to be aware when making the deal?

My other option is an offer from a local used dealer to get any of his used 243's for $1995 which would include delivery and tuning. His website is http://www.worldwidepiano.com/

What would you guys do? Thanks again!

Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272745
07/01/07 05:13 PM
07/01/07 05:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member
mikhailoh  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
How used is used?


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272746
07/01/07 06:05 PM
07/01/07 06:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
superlocrian Offline OP
Full Member
superlocrian  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
Not sure. This one was made in 1960 and looks great.

http://www.worldwidepiano.com/view_product.php?pid=126

What (providing the piano looks and sounds good) years are appropriate at the $1995 cost? 1960's? 70's? 80's?

Still serious about the new one at $3977

I'd like to buy this week and all advice is welcome and appreciated!

Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272747
07/01/07 06:14 PM
07/01/07 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Quote
My other option is an offer from a local used dealer to get any of his used 243's for $1995
The fact that he has several identical used pianos suggests that they may be retiring footsoldiers of a rental fleet. Personally, I wouldn't take the used deal, even if I had the pick of the litter.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272748
07/01/07 06:24 PM
07/01/07 06:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member
mikhailoh  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
So this piano is 47 years old and you are considering paying 50% of today's new piano retail price for it?

I don't want to be mean, but that piano is done. Gone. Used up. Kaput. One short step from firewood.

You are a great candidate for a new piano. That is my recommendation.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272749
07/01/07 07:17 PM
07/01/07 07:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,126
Texas
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member
TX-Dennis  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,126
Texas
Quote
Originally posted by superlocrian:
Thanks so much for the advice guys- I really appreciate it. My local Baldwin dealer replied to my inquiry of a new 243 with this response:
___________________________________________________________
The lowest price we are able to sell this piano is $3977. It will be at our Baldwin Roadshow event July 5-8. There will be factory direct rebates on this piano. Our regular price is $4995. You are right, it is an awesome workhorse of a piano, sounds awesome too. Let me know if you have any questions, as I would be glad to help. The bench and delivery are free.
___________________________________________________________
Is this the best deal I can expect to find on a new 243? Is there anything of which I need to be aware when making the deal?

My other option is an offer from a local used dealer to get any of his used 243's for $1995 which would include delivery and tuning. His website is http://www.worldwidepiano.com/

What would you guys do? Thanks again!
That sounds like a good price to me. Fine list on the piano is over $6300, so you are looking at over a third off. That's a very good discount in anyone's book.


Dennis
[Linked Image]
flickr

Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272750
07/01/07 08:13 PM
07/01/07 08:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
superlocrian Offline OP
Full Member
superlocrian  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
I was told that the dealer cost as listed in the Ancott Music Product Directory is $2755. Of course I do not have access to that, not being a dealer or tech. The Blue Book listing online that I have access to lists the retail as $5500

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/baldwin.htm

I guess it's still a good deal though. Seems like piano markups are king of high in proportion to that of, say, a car. Nevertheless, if it's a good deal in the piano world, I'll buy a new one this week. I just need confirmation that that is a good deal.

Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272751
07/01/07 09:21 PM
07/01/07 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
You said that the dealer answered your inquiry by quoting you a bottom price of $3997. If that inquiry was by phone or fax, it might be good to go and meet the dealer, see the dealership and check out the piano. If you get a good feeling about the dealer and really like the piano, you can always ask for a little lower price. You can say you're a grad student in music and money is tight. or whatever. It's better to negotiate in person.

By the way, does the price include the rebate or does that money come back to you later?


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272752
07/02/07 12:16 AM
07/02/07 12:16 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 113
Ephrata, Pa
Ron Gardiner Offline
Full Member
Ron Gardiner  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 113
Ephrata, Pa
If you are still looking at pianos like the 243, here is a video of the Pearl River 115E where you can clearly see the design of the Music desk. The price new, should be somewhere in between the 243 used and new sale price that you quoted.
Good Luck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFvejJBctSQ


Until Next Time
Industry veteran of 37 years.
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272753
07/02/07 06:32 AM
07/02/07 06:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member
mikhailoh  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
Hey Ron,

Here's a link you should read, guy. One post promoting your product is debateable. A second one when you did not get the response you wanted is pretty far over the line, IMO.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/9462.html


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272754
07/02/07 07:48 AM
07/02/07 07:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 992
Carmel, Indiana
Larry Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Larry Larson  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 992
Carmel, Indiana
Mike, $3977 is a good price if the piano is new or nearly new. I paid $5000 for mine new 6 years ago. There have been improvements in the newer ones, so I think it might be good to get something recent. Larry


1995 Baldwin L grand
2001 Baldwin Hamilton upright
Yamaha S90 synthesizer
www.larrylarsonpiano.com
YouTubeChannel www.youtube.com/LarryLarsonPiano
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272755
07/02/07 11:54 AM
07/02/07 11:54 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 113
Ephrata, Pa
Ron Gardiner Offline
Full Member
Ron Gardiner  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 113
Ephrata, Pa
Quote
Originally posted by mikhailoh:
Hey Ron,

Here's a link you should read, guy. One post promoting your product is debateable. A second one when you did not get the response you wanted is pretty far over the line, IMO.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/9462.html


Until Next Time
Industry veteran of 37 years.
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272756
07/02/07 12:10 PM
07/02/07 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 659
Northeast
K
Kenny Blankenship Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kenny Blankenship  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 659
Northeast
P22, UST8 or Baldwin Hamilton, new or used all great selections, In spite of what Ron the rep says, the PR product just doesnt have the track record...


Kenny Blankenship
Selling anything anyone will buy as the "Walmartizisation of the industry continues. (Still making a fair living and still having clients like me)
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272757
07/02/07 04:02 PM
07/02/07 04:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
superlocrian Offline OP
Full Member
superlocrian  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
Okay, I'm down to two final choices . . .

A used 2001 Baldwin 243 for $1995 (looks to be in good condition)

<OR>

A new Baldwin 243E for $3997

Basically, it's a question of new vs. 6 yrs old for 1/2 the price . . .

Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272758
07/02/07 04:05 PM
07/02/07 04:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member
mikhailoh  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
It is also a question of where has that 2001 been for six years. Therse are largely institutional pianos. Have a tech check it out for you before you buy.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272759
07/03/07 12:11 PM
07/03/07 12:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
superlocrian Offline OP
Full Member
superlocrian  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Dallas, TX
Thanks all. I am going to buy the new Baldwin 243 in Satin Oak for $3977 and feel very good about my purchase. Thanks for all your input- it has really helped me come to a decision. You guys are the best!

I have no piano knowledge with which to repay, but if you ever have a Music Theory question, I'll be happy to help!

Thanks again!

Mike Rogers

Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272760
07/03/07 12:23 PM
07/03/07 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Quote
I have no piano knowledge with which to repay
Sure you do, or will shortly. Just stay in touch during the period between delivery and the break-in period and let us know how everything works out.

Congratulations!


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272761
07/03/07 12:34 PM
07/03/07 12:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,298
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012
Monica K.  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,298
Lexington, Kentucky
Congratulations, superlocrian, on your new piano! We love to see pictures, so please post a couple after your delivery. smile

p.s. music theory knowledge is always appreciated, too, so feel free to come help us out on the Adult Beginners forum.

Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272762
07/03/07 02:29 PM
07/03/07 02:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 130
Orlando Florida
abg Offline
Full Member
abg  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 130
Orlando Florida
You made the right choice going for the new one at that price. Congratulations on buying a really fine piano that will last decades.


Musical amateur with no professional pretensions or affiliations
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272763
07/03/07 04:18 PM
07/03/07 04:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 992
Carmel, Indiana
Larry Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Larry Larson  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 992
Carmel, Indiana
Congratulations on your purchase. Mine is oak too, so we have identical pianos. After it gets settled in I'll be interested to hear your opinion about the tone. My tuner was able to regulate mine to have a very light touch. I had remarked to him how much enjoyed playing my teacher's Steinway B grand because I could control it so easily and play it very softly. He said "oh, I can make your piano do that", and he did. I was impressed. So a good tech can bring out lots of hidden potential in these pianos. I hope you enjoy it for many years... Larry


1995 Baldwin L grand
2001 Baldwin Hamilton upright
Yamaha S90 synthesizer
www.larrylarsonpiano.com
YouTubeChannel www.youtube.com/LarryLarsonPiano
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272764
07/03/07 05:27 PM
07/03/07 05:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member
mikhailoh  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,288
Cincinnati
Nice piano. Enjoy!


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
Re: Baldwin 243 buying advice #272765
07/03/07 07:30 PM
07/03/07 07:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,126
Texas
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member
TX-Dennis  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,126
Texas
Congratulations. You got a nice piano and a great deal!


Dennis
[Linked Image]
flickr


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